Police Reform in the United States

[Ifreann]

Well obviously you should call an ambulance

Of course that would be the first thing I do but I'd also want the person who did it to face charges.

Well that's nothing to do with you.

[Saiwania]

The one solution people don't consider enough is this: abolish police unions, or failing that- only confine them to arguments about pay and working conditions like other labor unions. The police unions in the US have too much power, and are the ones which demand that "bad" cops not be fired or to grant all officers extra legal immunities from consequences for what they do against civilians on the job.

Police officers who refuse to do their job if they don't get their way from a local government, should simply be fired and replaced.

[San Lumen]

Who are the good people to you? How do you want the police reformed?

the good people are communists, i want the police reformed by creating a new policing system from scratch

Im not a communist therefore Im not a good person?

How does your new system work?

[San Lumen]

The one solution people don't consider enough is this: abolish police unions, or failing that- only confine them to arguments about pay and working conditions like other labor unions. The police unions in the US have too much power, and are the ones which demand that "bad" cops not be fired or to grant all officers extra legal immunities from consequences for what they do against civilians on the job.

For once we agree. Police unions are a problem. They never criticize an officers actions and stand behind them like a brotherhood. I never forget when two officers were murdered in their patrol car in Brooklyn and the union president had the audacity to blame the mayor for it.

[Thermodolia]

Well obviously you should call an ambulance

Of course that would be the first thing I do but I'd also want the person who did it to face charges.

Then call the prosecutors office

[Hukhalia]

the good people are communists, i want the police reformed by creating a new policing system from scratch

Im not a communist therefore Im not a good person?

How does your new system work?

police in their day-to-day jobs should generally patrol their own communities, be organised with a thorough degree of internal accountability, and uphold the banner of mao in all things

[Indomitable Friendship]

Abolish it, full stop. Build more homeless shelters, fund free drug rehabilitation centers, completely overhaul the education system, completely legalize abortion & institute free college.

And who is going to enforce the law? Someone gets murdered. Who is going to do the investigation and press charges?

Why is it my business? Unless I personally know them, it's not.

[San Lumen]

Of course that would be the first thing I do but I'd also want the person who did it to face charges.

Then call the prosecutors office

Why should I have too? The police show up and do an investigation first. I shouldn't have to ask for one.

[Thermodolia]

the good people are communists, i want the police reformed by creating a new policing system from scratch

Im not a communist therefore Im not a good person?

How does your new system work?

No you aren’t a good person because you want to genocide half the planet and don’t care if black Americans die because the police are still armed

[San Lumen]

Im not a communist therefore Im not a good person?

How does your new system work?

police in their day-to-day jobs should generally patrol their own communities, be organised with a thorough degree of internal accountability, and uphold the banner of mao in all things

officers should be required to live where they work? I can support this.

Internal review? I don't trust them to do their own investigations given how the union almost always defends them no matter what.

What does the banner of Mao have to do with anything?

[Hukhalia]

police in their day-to-day jobs should generally patrol their own communities, be organised with a thorough degree of internal accountability, and uphold the banner of mao in all things

officers should be required to live where they work? I can support this.

Internal review? I don't trust them to do their own investigations given how the union almost always defends them no matter what.

What does the banner of Mao have to do with anything?

no police unions, and external accountability is important

the banner of mao is the most important part of anything, mao zedong thought is an essential part of governing one's life

[Thermodolia]

Then call the prosecutors office

Why should I have too? The police show up and do an investigation first. I shouldn't have to ask for one.

But the police don’t actually have to protect you

[San Lumen]

And who is going to enforce the law? Someone gets murdered. Who is going to do the investigation and press charges?

Why is it my business? Unless I personally know them, it's not.

Just because something doesn't personally happen to you doesn't mean there should not be an agency to enforce law and order. Somalia is perfect example of what happens when you don't have it.

[Ifreann]

Then call the prosecutors office

Why should I have too? The police show up and do an investigation first. I shouldn't have to ask for one.

You don't. You aren't the victim. At most you're a witness. Making a criminal case of this imaginary crime you have described is not up to you.

[San Lumen]

officers should be required to live where they work? I can support this.

Internal review? I don't trust them to do their own investigations given how the union almost always defends them no matter what.

What does the banner of Mao have to do with anything?

no police unions, and external accountability is important

the banner of mao is the most important part of anything, mao zedong thought is an essential part of governing one's life

On this we can agree as well. Still not seeing what Mao has to with the police department.

[Thermodolia]

officers should be required to live where they work? I can support this.

Internal review? I don't trust them to do their own investigations given how the union almost always defends them no matter what.

What does the banner of Mao have to do with anything?

no police unions, and external accountability is important

the banner of mao is the most important part of anything, mao zedong thought is an essential part of governing one's life

No. Mao is terrible.

Tito is better

[Hukhalia]

no police unions, and external accountability is important

the banner of mao is the most important part of anything, mao zedong thought is an essential part of governing one's life

On this we can agree as well. Still not seeing what Mao has to with the police department.

i just really like mao

no police unions, and external accountability is important

the banner of mao is the most important part of anything, mao zedong thought is an essential part of governing one's life

No. Mao is terrible.

Tito is better

[insert joke about debt and cigarettes here]

[San Lumen]

On this we can agree as well. Still not seeing what Mao has to with the police department.

i just really like mao

No. Mao is terrible.

Tito is better

[insert joke about debt and cigarettes here]

You can like Mao all you want but he has nothing to do with the police force.

You've laid out two great points so far.

Requiring officers to live where they work and having an external review board. Why couldn't you simply say this instead of calling for the abolition of the police?

[Hukhalia]

i just really like mao


[insert joke about debt and cigarettes here]

You can like Mao all you want but he has nothing to do with the police force.

You've laid out two great points so far.

Requiring officers to live where they work and having an external review board. Why couldn't you simply say this instead of calling for the abolition of the police?

because the essential part is where mao comes in, unironically. the police force can only be ethical if it is commanded by a communist leadership, and for a communist leadership to be put in place there must be a great proletarian revolution which shatters the coercive institutions of the old state such as the bourgeois standing army and police force

[San Lumen]

You can like Mao all you want but he has nothing to do with the police force.

You've laid out two great points so far.

Requiring officers to live where they work and having an external review board. Why couldn't you simply say this instead of calling for the abolition of the police?

because the essential part is where mao comes in, unironically. the police force can only be ethical if it is commanded by a communist leadership, and for a communist leadership to be put in place there must be a great proletarian revolution which shatters the coercive institutions of the old state such as the bourgeois standing army and police force

Why is communism the only way?

[Indomitable Friendship]

Why is it my business? Unless I personally know them, it's not.

Just because something doesn't personally happen to you doesn't mean there should not be an agency to enforce law and order. Somalia is perfect example of what happens when you don't have it.

Just because something doesn't personally happen to you doesn't mean there should not be an agency to enforce law and order.

Why? I can handle my own business & so can everyone else.

Somalia is perfect example of what happens when you don't have it.

Since I can't touch 1 of the fundamental aspects of this, I will tell you that Somalia has almost 16 million people. That is way too many for such an underdeveloped economy in a land not conducive for quantity food production. Somalia needs to fix it's overpopulation before anything else.

[Hukhalia]

because the essential part is where mao comes in, unironically. the police force can only be ethical if it is commanded by a communist leadership, and for a communist leadership to be put in place there must be a great proletarian revolution which shatters the coercive institutions of the old state such as the bourgeois standing army and police force

Why is communism the only way?

because it is the final step on the grand stage of history and it must be actualised lest we all perish

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

The funny thing about the line of reasoning that goes "if we don't have the police, then who will protect people from violence" is that it implicitly assumes that American police do in fact protect people from violence.

Which isn't true and has never been true. United States law enforcement defends the social order of the United States, not the citizenry of the same. So if you're not interested in the continuation of the extant social order, because you don't benefit from that, then why would you want police protection? That protection isn't going to be protecting anything you care about. As the folks over in the gun discussion thread are so fond of pointing out, police in the United States doesn't have a legal duty to protect anyone. And them going after protestors - violent or otherwise - first and looters only second if at all during the wave of unrest that swept the United States two years ago should give everyone a clear vision of where law enforcement's priorities lie.

[San Lumen]

Just because something doesn't personally happen to you doesn't mean there should not be an agency to enforce law and order. Somalia is perfect example of what happens when you don't have it.

Just because something doesn't personally happen to you doesn't mean there should not be an agency to enforce law and order.

Why? I can handle my own business & so can everyone else.

Somalia is perfect example of what happens when you don't have it.

Since I can't touch 1 of the fundamental aspects of this, I will tell you that Somalia has almost 16 million people. That is way too many for such an underdeveloped economy in a land not conducive for quantity food production. Somalia needs to fix it's overpopulation before anything else.

so every man and woman for themselves and no one to enforce the laws of the state?

[San Lumen]

Why is communism the only way?

because it is the final step on the grand stage of history and it must be actualised lest we all perish

This whole argument of yours comes of as a push for an ideology that only works on paper and you have no interest in actual reform of the police.