Police Reform in the United States

[Hukhalia]

Following the massacre thread semi-threadjack(?) I decided to take it upon myself to create a thread for people to discuss the matter of the police in more detail and without clogging up a thread dedicated to a rather horrific instance of mass shooting.

Obviously, lots of people are upset with the status quo in the USA and the way the police operate. Many call for the police to be defunded, especially in the wake of the 2020 George Floyd protests/riots, which deeply polarised not just America, but many countries on issues such as systemic racism and gun violence.

Some would even suggest the police be abolished outright, though this is an incredibly fringe belief. I personally side with this group for the purposes of weakening the present state authority, but I don't think its practicable to institute and as such people should just be prepared to act in self-defense should they be the victim of an officer's aggression.

Thoughts, NSG?

[San Lumen]

If you abolish the police who is going to enforce law and order? A prime example of how your proposal doesn't work is Somalia.

[Hukhalia]

If you abolish the police who is going to enforce law and order? A prime example of how your proposal doesn't work is Somalia.

Fundamentally from my perspective the absence of someone to provide "law" and "order" in American society is a good thing. The oppressor exalts stability because it stems change. Without this vaunted "stability", wonderful and wide-reaching things can happen.

[Thermodolia]

If you abolish the police who is going to enforce law and order? A prime example of how your proposal doesn't work is Somalia.

Actually no. Crime goes down when the cops all went on strike and refused to help NYC

Prove it.

Major Crime Complaints by Civilians fell by 6% in NYC when cops took a break
Cops in Atlanta refuse to do their Job, Crime drops anyway

[San Lumen]

If you abolish the police who is going to enforce law and order? A prime example of how your proposal doesn't work is Somalia.

Fundamentally from my perspective the absence of someone to provide "law" and "order" in American society is a good thing. The oppressor exalts stability because it stems change. Without this vaunted "stability", wonderful and wide-reaching things can happen.

Ok if someone assaults and injures one of my friends while we are walking the street who do I turn to see that person face charges?

[Ifreann]

If you abolish the police who is going to enforce law and order? A prime example of how your proposal doesn't work is Somalia.

Whose laws are being enforced? Whose order?

[Hukhalia]

Fundamentally from my perspective the absence of someone to provide "law" and "order" in American society is a good thing. The oppressor exalts stability because it stems change. Without this vaunted "stability", wonderful and wide-reaching things can happen.

Ok if someone assaults and injures someone Im with who do I turn to see that person face charges?

Ideally you cope with it because there's no police and people are doing what they like and you have bigger issues on your hands.

[San Lumen]

Ok if someone assaults and injures someone Im with who do I turn to see that person face charges?

Ideally you cope with it because there's no police and people are doing what they like and you have bigger issues on your hands.

I should just deal with them being injured or shot? What kind of insane take is that?

[Cantport]

Ok if someone assaults and injures someone Im with who do I turn to see that person face charges?

Ideally you cope with it because there's no police and people are doing what they like and you have bigger issues on your hands.

But isn't opposition to violence against innocent people supposedly the reason you want to abolish police?

[Ifreann]

Fundamentally from my perspective the absence of someone to provide "law" and "order" in American society is a good thing. The oppressor exalts stability because it stems change. Without this vaunted "stability", wonderful and wide-reaching things can happen.

Ok if someone assaults and injures one of my friends while we are walking the street who do I turn to see that person face charges?

The police do not bring criminal charges. That is not their role at all. Prosecutors bring charges.

[Hukhalia]

Ideally you cope with it because there's no police and people are doing what they like and you have bigger issues on your hands.

I should just deal with them being injured or shot? What kind of insane take is that?

The take of someone who would quite frankly be wanting their own red-clad police patrolling the streets instead when the dust clears

[Hukhalia]

Ideally you cope with it because there's no police and people are doing what they like and you have bigger issues on your hands.

But isn't opposition to violence against innocent people supposedly the reason you want to abolish police?

welllll

[San Lumen]

Ok if someone assaults and injures one of my friends while we are walking the street who do I turn to see that person face charges?

The police do not bring criminal charges. That is not their role at all. Prosecutors bring charges.

I am well aware of that. Don't treat me like Im stupid.

[Uiiop]

Following the massacre thread semi-threadjack(?) I decided to take it upon myself to create a thread for people to discuss the matter of the police in more detail and without clogging up a thread dedicated to a rather horrific instance of mass shooting.

Obviously, lots of people are upset with the status quo in the USA and the way the police operate. Many call for the police to be defunded, especially in the wake of the 2020 George Floyd protests/riots, which deeply polarised not just America, but many countries on issues such as systemic racism and gun violence.

Some would even suggest the police be abolished outright, though this is an incredibly fringe belief. I personally side with this group for the purposes of weakening the present state authority, but I don't think its practicable to institute and as such people should just be prepared to act in self-defense should they be the victim of an officer's aggression.

Thoughts, NSG?

I think they should just say demilitarize the police because radical language isn't an cure for co-opting. An thornless is still an thornless rose even if the name means it still smells sweet.

That being said i can't entirely blame them for resorting to this. Urban decay and inaction is an bitch.

[San Lumen]

I should just deal with them being injured or shot? What kind of insane take is that?

The take of someone who would quite frankly be wanting their own red-clad police patrolling the streets instead when the dust clears

You do want police then. Your being contradictory.

[Hukhalia]

The take of someone who would quite frankly be wanting their own red-clad police patrolling the streets instead when the dust clears

You do want police then. Your being contradictory.

turns out the nature of a state is also the nature of its coercive institutions. i want the people's stick, goddamnit

[San Lumen]

You do want police then. Your being contradictory.

turns out the nature of a state is also the nature of its coercive institutions. i want the people's stick, goddamnit

I don't understand what this word salad means.

[Thermodolia]

Ideally you cope with it because there's no police and people are doing what they like and you have bigger issues on your hands.

I should just deal with them being injured or shot? What kind of insane take is that?

Well obviously you should call an ambulance

[Uiiop]

You do want police then. Your being contradictory.

turns out the nature of a state is also the nature of its coercive institutions. i want the people's stick, goddamnit

Just because people want the "Ought" of policehood doesn't mean they have to think that what the police actually is can match up.
Shocking.

[Hukhalia]

turns out the nature of a state is also the nature of its coercive institutions. i want the people's stick, goddamnit

I don't understand what this word salad means.

when bad people have their own police force it's bad

when good people have their own police force it's good

the current people with the police force are, by nature of how they exist in relation to the centres of power, intractably bad

we must therefore fight to remove the bad people and put good people in instead with their own police force

and the bad people's police force is hindering that, so they should be abolished

[San Lumen]

I don't understand what this word salad means.

when bad people have their own police force it's bad

when good people have their own police force it's good

the current people with the police force are, by nature of how they exist in relation to the centres of power, intractably bad

we must therefore fight to remove the bad people and put good people in instead

Who are the good people to you? How do you want the police reformed?

[San Lumen]

I should just deal with them being injured or shot? What kind of insane take is that?

Well obviously you should call an ambulance

Of course that would be the first thing I do but I'd also want the person who did it to face charges.

[Indomitable Friendship]

Abolish it, full stop. Build more homeless shelters, fund free drug rehabilitation centers, completely overhaul the education system, completely legalize abortion & institute free college.

[Hukhalia]

when bad people have their own police force it's bad

when good people have their own police force it's good

the current people with the police force are, by nature of how they exist in relation to the centres of power, intractably bad

we must therefore fight to remove the bad people and put good people in instead

Who are the good people to you? How do you want the police reformed?

the good people are communists, i want the police reformed by creating a new policing system from scratch

[San Lumen]

Abolish it, full stop. Build more homeless shelters, fund free drug rehabilitation centers, completely overhaul the education system, completely legalize abortion & institute free college.

And who is going to enforce the law? Someone gets murdered. Who is going to do the investigation and press charges?