NationStates

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 11:07 am**

This is a very sensitive topic so I'm going to have to be careful here.

Pros and cons of Taiwanese formal independence.

Pros: Nation would be free to establish its own path, embassies/consulates, international recognition now available.
Improved international relations. Taiwanese people do not recognize themselves as Chinese ( based on what I saw on Quora for a pros-and-cons of this);
Cons: Republic of China would not like it in any way, war with China, frostier international relations.

Pros and cons of Scottish independence

Pros: Scotland would have more of its own control over politics free of Westminster (source: netivist discussion), freedom to promote its own culture and identity, not bound by UK laws.
Cons: Can't use GBP as currency, many Scots still identify as British, citizenship issues as to who would qualify for Scots citizenship, maybe a debate akin to Juan Mari Bras and Puerto Rican citizenship, many companies exiting London / England creating economic issues; EU membership not guaranteed. Scotland could have its own currency pegged 1:1 with GBP, but this has problems of its own. Could lead to Northern Ireland and Wales leaving as NIxit and Walexit, causing major problems. Political instability for UK worse than or as bad as Brexit.

If I'm being honest here, I wouldn't like the United Kingdom to break up, it'd be a huge culture shock, and also, there's more damaging economic issues to consider for things like tourism and industry etc.

I'll admit to limited understanding of the issues here, but this is probably going to be a topical issue for many, many, many years to come.

What's your opinion on both of these?

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 11:25 am**

Scottish “culture”.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 11:29 am**

If taiwan separated from the R.O.C would be bad
China still claimes taiwan and most contries wouldn't recognise it
Maybe fewer than the ones that recognise the R.O.C
Also it would mean a cultural/symbolic separation from china and as such become a target of invasion

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 11:53 am**

The "pros and cons" of independence really aren't relevant to anyone other the people who want independence.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 11:53 am**

Given the prevalence and power of multinational corporations;

"Split our labor union off from the bigger union, pros and cons?".

Cons.

It's literally all cons.

Unless you're straight up being persecuted and killed by the country in question (Applies to Taiwan tbh), there's no benefit unless your idea of "Benefit" is to be a scab. It makes literally everyone on earth worse off except the mega wealthy.

"Nah bro we'd totally run this shit way better.".

You will until the corporations enter a power struggle with your government which is now way, way, weaker and has less bargaining power.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 11:56 am**

Ostroeuropa wrote:Given the prevalence and power of multinational corporations;

"Split our labor union off from the bigger union, pros and cons?".

Cons.

It's literally all cons.

Unless you're straight up being persecuted and killed by the country in question (Applies to Taiwan tbh), there's no benefit unless your idea of "Benefit" is to be a scab. It makes literally everyone on earth worse off except the mega wealthy.

"Nah bro we'd totally run this shit way better.".

You will until the corporations enter a power struggle with your government which is now way, way, weaker and has less bargaining power.

So you're saying they should establish a Socialist State.

Right on, man. Right on.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 12:52 pm**

I think "Taiwan and Scottish independence" is a bit too restrictive. I can think of at least one other nation.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 12:55 pm**

What, precisely, are we trying to achieve by comparing Taiwan and Scotland given how socio-politically distinct these two entities are?

Next... 'Clipperton and Bouvetøya - pros and cons?'

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 12:56 pm**

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:I think "Taiwan and Scottish independence" is a bit too restrictive. I can think of at least one other nation.

You're no doubt thinking of Chiapas.

Nods.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 12:57 pm**

Scotland and Taiwan are in no way comparable in terms of their political climate and reasons for wanting independence. Taiwan is actively under threat of Chinese invasion.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:00 pm**

Uawc wrote:Scotland and Taiwan are in no way comparable in terms of their political climate and reasons for wanting independence.

True...but both would have the effect of pissing off countries I despise.

Imagine... the scottish republic joining the EU and charging the english road-toll in Euro.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:03 pm**

The Archregimancy wrote:What, precisely, are we trying to achieve by comparing Taiwan and Scotland given how socio-politically distinct these two entities are?

Next... 'Clipperton and Bouvetøya - pros and cons?'

How will the world deal with a free and independent Alderney?

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:08 pm**

The Archregimancy wrote:What, precisely, are we trying to achieve by comparing Taiwan and Scotland given how socio-politically distinct these two entities are?

Next... 'Clipperton and Bouvetøya - pros and cons?'

The one thing that the countries have in common is that both of their independence movements attract people who know very little about the countries they are supporting.

Taiwanese independence is great, if the inhabitants of Taiwan support it, but I don't see how declaring yourself as an entirely unrecognised state is more beneficial than maintaining the status quo and enjoying support from the US. The ROC has been in existence for longer than the PRC, but map painting redditors who don't even know the difference between the two want to throw it all away for their anti-China fantasies.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:21 pm**

Why post one thread about two completely unrelated countries and not even draw any comparison or connection in the OP? Why Scotland and Taiwan, rather than Scotland and Catalonia, or Taiwan and Somaliland, both of which would be much more apt comparisons to draw?

Kerwa wrote:Scottish “culture”.

You're as funny as a brain haemorrhage.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:24 pm**

Uawc wrote:Scotland and Taiwan are in no way comparable in terms of their political climate and reasons for wanting independence. Taiwan is actively under threat of Chinese invasion.

And Scotland isn't?

We all know Xi Jinping is preparing the People's Army for their inevitable victorious onslaught on Aberdeenshire.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:25 pm**

I would like to point out that Scottish culture is celebrated the world over and if the Scots were in a similar position to Taiwan, we'd be talking about that here. But we're not.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:36 pm**

Old Tyrannia wrote:Why post one thread about two completely unrelated countries and not even draw any comparison or connection in the OP? Why Scotland and Taiwan, rather than Scotland and Catalonia, or Taiwan and Somaliland, both of which would be much more apt comparisons to draw?

Good point. I forgot that.

I think I cocked up with this thread somewhat. :oops:

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:38 pm**

West Bromwich Holme wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:Why post one thread about two completely unrelated countries and not even draw any comparison or connection in the OP? Why Scotland and Taiwan, rather than Scotland and Catalonia, or Taiwan and Somaliland, both of which would be much more apt comparisons to draw?

Good point. I forgot that.

I think I cocked up with this thread somewhat.

If you need any advice, ask me. I'm skilled at independence threads.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:40 pm**

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
West Bromwich Holme wrote:
Good point. I forgot that.

I think I cocked up with this thread somewhat.

If you need any advice, ask me. I'm skilled at independence threads.

That would be like asking a man who's been divorced five times for marriage advice because he's had so many of them.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:41 pm**

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:If you need any advice, ask me. I'm skilled at independence threads.

That would be like asking a man who's been divorced five times for marriage advice because he's had so many of them.

No, it would be like asking the author of five best-selling books for advice on writing a book.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:43 pm**

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:That would be like asking a man who's been divorced five times for marriage advice because he's had so many of them.

No, it would be like asking the author of five best-selling books for advice on writing a book.

No, because you haven't successfully gotten any nation independent, meaning it is like the first example.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 1:46 pm**

Catalonia 2070 RP wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:No, it would be like asking the author of five best-selling books for advice on writing a book.

No, because you haven't successfully gotten any nation independent, meaning it is like the first example.

Is the author any less accomplished just because the events depicted in their books are fictional? No.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 2:14 pm**

Sordhau wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:Given the prevalence and power of multinational corporations;

"Split our labor union off from the bigger union, pros and cons?".

Cons.

It's literally all cons.

Unless you're straight up being persecuted and killed by the country in question (Applies to Taiwan tbh), there's no benefit unless your idea of "Benefit" is to be a scab. It makes literally everyone on earth worse off except the mega wealthy.

"Nah bro we'd totally run this shit way better.".

You will until the corporations enter a power struggle with your government which is now way, way, weaker and has less bargaining power.

So you're saying they should establish a Socialist State.

Right on, man. Right on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjINuMEuSKA

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 2:29 pm**

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Sordhau wrote:
So you're saying they should establish a Socialist State.

Right on, man. Right on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjINuMEuSKA

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 2:31 pm**

The Archregimancy wrote:
Uawc wrote:Scotland and Taiwan are in no way comparable in terms of their political climate and reasons for wanting independence. Taiwan is actively under threat of Chinese invasion.

And Scotland isn't?

We all know Xi Jinping is preparing the People's Army for their inevitable victorious onslaught on Aberdeenshire.

There’s more to this than you think. The invasion won’t be military however.

NationStates

Taiwan and Scottish independence - pros and cons?

Taiwan and Scottish independence - pros and cons?