Taiwan and Scottish independence - pros and cons?

[-Astoria-]

And Scotland isn't?

We all know Xi Jinping is preparing the People's Army for their inevitable victorious onslaught on Aberdeenshire.

There’s more to this than you think. The invasion won’t be military however.

Then in what way?

[The Two Jerseys]

But Taiwan is already independent...

[Infected Mushroom]

Independence movements should not be a thing. They create destabilizing effects and fracture the world.

[Pasong Tirad]

There is literally only one, very big, very mean and very heavily armed con to Taiwan claiming independence and it's staring at Taiwan 100 miles away.

I think "Taiwan and Scottish independence" is a bit too restrictive. I can think of at least one other nation.

You're no doubt thinking of Chiapas.

Nods.

The Zapatistas very much deserve the chance to govern Chiapas independent of the federal government in Mexico City. Nods.

[Lamoni]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjINuMEuSKA

*** Warning for Trolling ***

[Infected Mushroom]

There is literally only one, very big, very mean and very heavily armed con to Taiwan claiming independence and it's staring at Taiwan 100 miles away.

Yes. The PRC would not allow it. There could be a war.

[Haganham]

Scotland and Taiwan are in no way comparable in terms of their political climate and reasons for wanting independence. Taiwan is actively under threat of Chinese invasion.

And Scotland isn't?

We all know Xi Jinping is preparing the People's Army for their inevitable victorious onslaught on Aberdeenshire.

Why? It will just get rained out.

[Uawc]

But Taiwan is already independent...

Not officially. China considers Taiwan to be a rogue province and not a separate country...even though it totally is.

[The Two Jerseys]

But Taiwan is already independent...

Not officially. China considers Taiwan to be a rogue province and not a separate country...even though it totally is.

Taiwan has never been subject to the PRC's sovereignty, it was and still is the ROC.

It's an independent state.

[Sordhau]

But Taiwan is already independent...

No, it isn't. It's occupied by the Republic of China.

[-Astoria-]

Not officially. China considers Taiwan to be a rogue province and not a separate country...even though it totally is.

Taiwan has never been subject to the PRC's sovereignty, it was and still is the ROC.

It's an independent state.

Can't seek independence if you're already independent. *taps head*

[Risottia]

I'd say independence for both.
Well, actually Taiwan is ALREADY de-facto independent and even enjoys a small international recognition as a sovereign country. PRC and RoC need to quit whinging about each other and just recognise mutually the other respectively as Taiwan and China, two separate and independent countries, ffs.
As for Scotland, the data from the Indyref, from Brexit, and the support for independentist parties make for a less clear-cut situation than the PRC-RoC one. I am entirely in favour of whatever the Scottish electors decide: if I were a Scot I'd vote for independence and then run like crazy to join the EU, but I'm nae Scot.

By the way, nothing prevents Scotland from USING the GB pound as they do right now. The Scottish banks wouldn't be able to GB pounds... but hey, they can't issue them right now either. Then again maybe an independent Scotland would adopt the euro unilaterally, even without joining the EU.

[Risottia]

But Taiwan is already independent...

Not officially. China considers Taiwan to be a rogue province and not a separate country...even though it totally is.

The Republic of China also considers the PRC, Russia, Vietnam, Mongolia etc to be illegally occupying their own territory

[Perikuresu]

Scotland and Taiwan are in no way comparable in terms of their political climate and reasons for wanting independence. Taiwan is actively under threat of Chinese invasion.

And Scotland isn't?

We all know Xi Jinping is preparing the People's Army for their inevitable victorious onslaught on Aberdeenshire.

*gasp* that's a mod with a sense of humoUr /s

Independence movements should not be a thing. They create destabilizing effects and fracture the world.

I shudder to think what you would've said during the Cold War and decolonisation of Asia and Africa

[Sordhau]

I'm getting the impression that no one here actually understands what "Taiwanese Independence" entails and didn't bother to read the OP.

Hint: it's about decolonization.

[Heloin]

Independence movements should not be a thing. They create destabilizing effects and fracture the world.

I shudder to think what you would've said during the Cold War and decolonisation of Asia and Africa

He’s made it fairly clear in the past that he thinks the genocidal European colonial efforts that ruled Africa for nearly a century were good.

[The Archregimancy]

By the way, nothing prevents Scotland from USING the GB pound as they do right now. The Scottish banks wouldn't be able to GB pounds... but hey, they can't issue them right now either. Then again maybe an independent Scotland would adopt the euro unilaterally, even without joining the EU.

This is a narrow technical point, but I'd argue that this is not entirely correct; or perhaps it's an issue of phrasing.

At present, Scotland has four separate circulating paper currencies, each denominated in pounds sterling. These are the UK-wide bank notes of the Bank of England, and then the banknotes of the three Scottish banks authorised to issue currency (the Bank of Scotland, Clydesdale Bank and The Royal Bank of Scotland). This is an increasingly rare example of the older practice of individual retail banks issuing currency instead of the right being restricted to a central bank.

However, while accepted across Scotland (and usually in most of England), the retail bank banknotes are not officially legal tender in any part of the UK. In a narrow legal sense, they're promissory notes backed by the Bank of England.

As you state, were Scotland to leave the United Kingdom, an independent Scotland would be free to continue to use sterling as at present, though monetary policy would be set by the Bank of England in London rather than an independent Scottish central bank. However, the Bank of England would also no longer be under any obligation to back the notes issues by the three Scottish retail banks under the 2009 Banknotes Regulation Act - which could have the unintended consequence of an independent Scotland losing its distinctively Scottish banknotes.

This c]would, of course, be open to negotiation as part of any independence agreement between Scotland and the rest of the UK, so we shouldn't assume that independence means the loss of those Scottish banknotes - but it also means that we shouldn't assume that an independent Scotland could continue to use the British pound precisely as it currently does.

[Old Tyrannia]

I'd say independence for both.
Well, actually Taiwan is ALREADY de-facto independent and even enjoys a small international recognition as a sovereign country. PRC and RoC need to quit whinging about each other and just recognise mutually the other respectively as Taiwan and China, two separate and independent countries, ffs.
As for Scotland, the data from the Indyref, from Brexit, and the support for independentist parties make for a less clear-cut situation than the PRC-RoC one. I am entirely in favour of whatever the Scottish electors decide: if I were a Scot I'd vote for independence and then run like crazy to join the EU, but I'm nae Scot.

By the way, nothing prevents Scotland from USING the GB pound as they do right now. The Scottish banks wouldn't be able to GB pounds... but hey, they can't issue them right now either. Then again maybe an independent Scotland would adopt the euro unilaterally, even without joining the EU.

For Scotland, leaving the United Kingdom and rejoining the European Union is a fair bit more complicated now than it was prior to the UK's departure from the EU in 2020, given that it would presumably mean implementing a hard border between Scotland and England- something that would be an administrative nightmare and quite likely a greater economic blow to Scotland than Brexit was, given that about 60% of Scotland's exports go to the rest of the UK and the majority of tourists that visit Scotland also come from other parts of the UK. From a practical perspective, leaving the UK to join the EU would be cutting off Scotland's nose to spite its face.

[Cetacea]

I'd say independence for both.
Well, actually Taiwan is ALREADY de-facto independent and even enjoys a small international recognition as a sovereign country. PRC and RoC need to quit whinging about each other and just recognise mutually the other respectively as Taiwan and China, two separate and independent countries, ffs.
As for Scotland, the data from the Indyref, from Brexit, and the support for independentist parties make for a less clear-cut situation than the PRC-RoC one. I am entirely in favour of whatever the Scottish electors decide: if I were a Scot I'd vote for independence and then run like crazy to join the EU, but I'm nae Scot.

By the way, nothing prevents Scotland from USING the GB pound as they do right now. The Scottish banks wouldn't be able to GB pounds... but hey, they can't issue them right now either. Then again maybe an independent Scotland would adopt the euro unilaterally, even without joining the EU.

For Scotland, leaving the United Kingdom and rejoining the European Union is a fair bit more complicated now than it was prior to the UK's departure from the EU in 2020, given that it would presumably mean implementing a hard border between Scotland and England- something that would be an administrative nightmare and quite likely a greater economic blow to Scotland than Brexit was, given that about 60% of Scotland's exports go to the rest of the UK and the majority of tourists that visit Scotland also come from other parts of the UK. From a practical perspective, leaving the UK to join the EU would be cutting off Scotland's nose to spite its face.

But Independent Scotland could join Nordic Union and reclaim its Scandinavian identity seperate from the sassenachs

[Old Tyrannia]

For Scotland, leaving the United Kingdom and rejoining the European Union is a fair bit more complicated now than it was prior to the UK's departure from the EU in 2020, given that it would presumably mean implementing a hard border between Scotland and England- something that would be an administrative nightmare and quite likely a greater economic blow to Scotland than Brexit was, given that about 60% of Scotland's exports go to the rest of the UK and the majority of tourists that visit Scotland also come from other parts of the UK. From a practical perspective, leaving the UK to join the EU would be cutting off Scotland's nose to spite its face.

But Independent Scotland could join Nordic Union and reclaim its Scandinavian identity seperate from the sassenachs

Not sure what this has to do with my post, but the only parts of Scotland that can claim a "Nordic identity" with any more justification than England can are Shetland and Orkney.

[Risottia]

But Independent Scotland could join Nordic Union and reclaim its Scandinavian identity seperate from the sassenachs

Not sure what this has to do with my post, but the only parts of Scotland that can claim a "Nordic identity" with any more justification than England can are Shetland and Orkney.

Sutherland too.

[Arcturus Novus]

I'd be interested to see what happens with an independent Scotland, especially considering everything going on in Europe. Can't remember the sources I read off the top but I remember seeing that there's definitely interest among some high-up Scottish officials to immediately join NATO (possibly also the EU?) if the independence movement succeeds. I don't think they'd be like, an especially wealthy or influential state when independent, but hey, who says they'd need to be?

There's also other states across Europe that I would love to see as their own independent entities. Not for any practical reasons, just because I think it'd be fun in one way or another. Stuff like Catalonia, sure, but mostly the balkanization of Italy and Germany; the latter two are some of the worst consequences of the Long 19th century.

(Also, Taiwan is rightful territory of the People's Republic of China and should be ceded or forcibly reclaimed.)

[The Union of Galaxies]

-snip-

[Nea Videssos]

Not sure what this has to do with my post, but the only parts of Scotland that can claim a "Nordic identity" with any more justification than England can are Shetland and Orkney.

Sutherland too.

Suðreyjar/the Hebrides too.

[Old Tyrannia]

Sutherland too.

Suðreyjar/the Hebrides too.

Well, alright, those areas were under Norwegian rule for longer than any part of modern England; but I'm not sure that I'd agree that either Sutherland or the Hebrides have substantially stronger Nordic cultural elements than, say, Yorkshire does today.