UK Politics Thread X: Upcoming Local Elections in May

[Hurdergaryp]

Why does France have an EU eyepatch on its head?

That would be the embodiment of the whole EU, the eyepatch must be the result of artistic license.

[Ifreann]

Why does France have an EU eyepatch on its head?

That was the style at the time.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Why does France have an EU eyepatch on its head?

That was the style at the time.

Those damn Grognards and their EU forehead eye patches.

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-64934106

Sunak has invited Joe Biden to come to Northern Ireland for the 25th Anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. I wonder if the DUP will object on the grounds that he is a Catholic... though thank fuck it wasn't Trump as President when the anniversary comes around.

[Philjia]

Green conference passed a new set of policies on security and defence, which reverses the previous policy of wanting to withdraw from NATO. (Due to the horrific grinding cogs of Green bureaucracy the old policies were older than me)

I think this is probably for the best because while NATO has a raft of problems I don't think there's much that can presently dissuade Russia from pursuing imperial ambitions in Europe other than military force.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Polls.


Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 50% (+3)
CON: 27% (-4)
LDM: 9% (+1)
GRN: 4% (-1)
RFM: 4% (=)
SNP: 3% (-1)

Via @DeltapollUK, 10-13 Mar. Changes w/ 2-6 Mar.

---

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 45% (-2)
CON: 29% (=)
LDM: 10% (+2)
RFM: 4% (-1)
SNP: 3% (=)
GRN: 3% (=)

Via @Survation, 2-3 Mar. Changes w/ 10-16 Feb.

[Vassenor]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-64934106

Sunak has invited Joe Biden to come to Northern Ireland for the 25th Anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. I wonder if the DUP will object on the grounds that he is a Catholic... though thank fuck it wasn't Trump as President when the anniversary comes around.

Fully expect Trump would've demanded full credit for the entire Peace Process.

[Tinhampton]

DIsappointed that the Gary Lineker saga has reached its conclusion? Want more "BBC personalities getting themselves into hot water" content? I have just the ticket: Fiona Bruce is cutting her decades-long ambassadorial ties with Refuge after she said, live on Question Time, that the incident in which Boris Johnson's dad broke his wife's nose was "a one-off"

[Fartsniffage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csuitx0HUzk

Gary was right.

[Saor Alba]

Another night, another SNP leadership debate. And pretty much nothing different from the last two. Regan stated her desire for independence at all costs, Forbes pushed for building a strong economy to deliver independence, and Humza just said nothing of substance.

Every day that goes by, Forbes appears the most sensible candidate. Level headed and has her priorities straight. Humza just seems like he wants power, Regan is just... Regan.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Army and police accused of cover up over use of plastic bullets

The Army and police have been accused of a cover-up in the deaths of children killed by rubber and plastic bullets during the Troubles.

BBC Spotlight has examined declassified material that reveals the Army knew it was too dangerous to fire the bullets at children, but it continued to do so.

Documents also show the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) was firing a plastic bullet gun never fully cleared for use against people.

But this was kept quiet.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) declined to comment, citing legal reasons.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI), which took over from the RUC following a rebrand in 2001, said the use of the weaponry is now strictly regulated.

The gun firing rubber, and later plastic, bullets was invented for Northern Ireland and designed to deter people rioting by hurting but not killing them.

At least 120,000 were fired during the Troubles.

Sixteen people were killed by rubber or plastic bullets during the Troubles. A 17th person was killed by a fall, possibly after being hit by one of the bullets.

Some were involved in street disorder. Others were bystanders.

Eight of the dead were children.

Others suffered serious injuries, including brain damage and blinding.

=CONTINUES=

If you want to, read the rest of the article to find some of the cases of children that were killed by these bullets, the youngest being ten years old. Needless to say, i am not surprised by this at all. And i know nothing is gona come of it in the end.

[Hirota]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csuitx0HUzk

Gary was right.

He can be both right and wrong at the same time you know. Nuance isn't entirely dead, despite some peoples attempts to kill it and transform everything into binary thinking

I mean, criticising government policy is all well and good, but resorting to Godwin's to make that is far too often daft, lazy and stupid.

[Celritannia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csuitx0HUzk

Gary was right.

He can be both right and wrong at the same time you know. Nuance isn't entirely dead, despite some peoples attempts to kill it and transform everything into binary thinking

I mean, criticising government policy is all well and good, but resorting to Godwin's to make that is far too often daft, lazy and stupid.

[Hirota]

He can be both right and wrong at the same time you know. Nuance isn't entirely dead, despite some peoples attempts to kill it and transform everything into binary thinking

I mean, criticising government policy is all well and good, but resorting to Godwin's to make that is far too often daft, lazy and stupid.

Oh well done, you can click on those smilies on the right of your screen.

[Vassenor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csuitx0HUzk

Gary was right.

He can be both right and wrong at the same time you know. Nuance isn't entirely dead, despite some peoples attempts to kill it and transform everything into binary thinking

I mean, criticising government policy is all well and good, but resorting to Godwin's to make that is far too often daft, lazy and stupid.

"This is similar to what the Nazis said so we need to be careful" =/= "this government are Nazis".

Nuance is a wonderful thing.

[Hirota]

He can be both right and wrong at the same time you know. Nuance isn't entirely dead, despite some peoples attempts to kill it and transform everything into binary thinking

I mean, criticising government policy is all well and good, but resorting to Godwin's to make that is far too often daft, lazy and stupid.

"This is similar to what the Nazis said so we need to be careful" =/= "this government are Nazis".

Nuance is a wonderful thing.

Also, understanding what Godwins law actually is would be a wonderful thing.

Here, I'll save you the effort of looking for a definition on Twatter.

A law that states that as the length of a thread proceeds on a newsgroup the probability of a comparison with Hitler or the Nazis approaches one.

Since - like you said - there was a comparison made with what the Nazis said, this is therefore a comparison with Hitler or the Nazis, and therefore Godwins law applies.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I personally think his tweet was silly and don't agree with it. Should he have been taken off air? No. Maybe I'm biased because I find him entertaining on Match of The Day, despise the corrupt grifter leadership of the Conservative Party and think people pay far too much attention to Twitter. But there does seem to be an inconsistency with how other prominent BBC figures have been able to post "right wing" opinions without any censure. Including Alan Sugar making some silly offhand association between Corbyn and Hitler if I remember right, so even that is not a new boundary being broken.

A lot of the discourse around free speech it's very clear that many of the pros and antis aren't taking a principled stance but more one of "people on my side should be allowed, those on the other side should shut up", "they started it, now it's funny they don't get free speech either etc." Which means that really whatever rules the BBC does change to after their review (which will probably take ages) the first time anyone gets smacked with it this will explode again.

It speaks to a wider issue which I don't think any number of reviews can solve. Not sure the idea of the BBC as a public service broadcaster, publicly funded but also editorially independent, can really survive in the current political climate because achieving "objectivity" and "fairness" in the eyes of a large majority of the population when there's two camps with such different discourse windows and who often want to shut each other up. I don't think there's any set of rules where this won't be a political football again and again and trust will continue to plummet.

[Hirota]

I personally think his tweet was silly and don't agree with it. Should he have been taken off air? No. Maybe I'm biased because I find him entertaining on Match of The Day, despise the corrupt grifter leadership of the Conservative Party and think people pay far too much attention to Twitter. But there does seem to be an inconsistency with how other prominent BBC figures have been able to post "right wing" opinions without any censure. Including Alan Sugar making some silly offhand association between Corbyn and Hitler if I remember right, so even that is not a new boundary being broken.

A lot of the discourse around free speech it's very clear that many of the pros and antis aren't taking a principled stance but more one of "people on my side should be allowed, those on the other side should shut up". Which means that really whatever rules the BBC does change to after their review (which will probably take ages) the first time anyone gets smacked with it this will explode again.

It speaks to a wider issue - not sure the idea of the BBC as a public service broadcaster, publicly funded but also editorially independent, can really survive in the current political climate because achieving "objectivity" and "fairness" in the eyes of a large majority of the population when there's two camps with such different discourse windows and who often want to shut each other up. I don't think there's any set of rules where this won't be a political football again and again and trust will continue to plummet.

That's pretty much the position I sit in - it was a poorly conveyed tweet on twatter with daft overblown rhetoric, but there are plenty of those going about and I don't think he should have been singled out.

[Ifreann]

It bodes very poorly for Britain, I think, that when people with relevant knowledge and expertise about the Holocaust and the rise of the Nazis are saying that Lineker is right, people still wave it off. If you won't heed the people who know how it happened the first time when they warn that it is happening again, then either it will happen again, or someone else who is paying attention will stop it while you're calling in to LBC to condemn them.

[Hirota]

It bodes very poorly for Britain, I think, that when people with relevant knowledge and expertise about the Holocaust and the rise of the Nazis are saying that Lineker is right, people still wave it off.

There would have to be a consensus amongst people with relevant knowledge and expertise about the Holocaust for me to consider that point, which there isn't.

https://www.thejc.com/news/news/shame-o ... vTlwpQUNos

Nor for that matter, does saying the tweet was silly, but agreeing there is grounds for criticism of the government policy constitute "waving it off" either.

[Vassenor]

It bodes very poorly for Britain, I think, that when people with relevant knowledge and expertise about the Holocaust and the rise of the Nazis are saying that Lineker is right, people still wave it off. If you won't heed the people who know how it happened the first time when they warn that it is happening again, then either it will happen again, or someone else who is paying attention will stop it while you're calling in to LBC to condemn them.

But you see we could never be the ones doing The Bad Thing because we’re the good guys.

This is also why you see pushback against teaching the kids actual history because they might learn about the times when Britain and America actually did do The Bad Thing.

[Forsher]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csuitx0HUzk

Gary was right.

He can be both right and wrong at the same time you know. Nuance isn't entirely dead, despite some peoples attempts to kill it and transform everything into binary thinking

I mean, criticising government policy is all well and good, but resorting to Godwin's to make that is far too often daft, lazy and stupid.

BBC: Government Announces Extermination of Jews

Twitter Account with Millions of Followers: This is literally Nazi

Hirota: Godwin! Godwin!

Govt. Minister: I find it very disappointing and offensive that people would compare our policies to the Holocaust. In fact, I would suggest such hyperbole is, in itself, anti-Semitic.

---

Regardless of whether or not Lineker is correct in his comparison, the way you are using Godwin Hirota is extremely problematic. Hence, I have decided to satirise it.

I know you made a post about how you disagree with Lineker's interpretation, so it's even more inexcusable. Forget Godwin and just link back to your argument.

[Celritannia]

Oh well done, you can click on those smilies on the right of your screen.

Your comment still screams "both sides", but that's the extreme centrism you stick to.

[Hirota]

Regardless of whether or not Lineker is correct in his comparison, the way you are using Godwin Hirota is extremely problematic. Hence, I have decided to satirise it.

It's certainly satirical. It' s not got a great grasp of what I've actually said, but still...

I know you made a post about how you disagree with Lineker's interpretation, so it's even more inexcusable. Forget Godwin and just link back to your argument.

I would, and I normally do (and I have previously) but it's not as if the usual suspects on here would actually bother to read it rather than continue to misrepresent in bad faith.

<sigh> But then maybe the point isn't to argue against these lost causes. Maybe it should be to persuade others.

Your comment still screams "both sides", but that's the extreme centrism you stick to.

It's not "screaming" by any definition other than the depths of your own skull.

[Vassenor]

He can be both right and wrong at the same time you know. Nuance isn't entirely dead, despite some peoples attempts to kill it and transform everything into binary thinking

I mean, criticising government policy is all well and good, but resorting to Godwin's to make that is far too often daft, lazy and stupid.

BBC: Government Announces Extermination of Jews

Twitter Account with Millions of Followers: This is literally Nazi

Hirota: Godwin! Godwin!

Govt. Minister: I find it very disappointing and offensive that people would compare our policies to the Holocaust. In fact, I would suggest such hyperbole is, in itself, anti-Semitic.

---

Regardless of whether or not Lineker is correct in his comparison, the way you are using Godwin Hirota is extremely problematic. Hence, I have decided to satirise it.

I know you made a post about how you disagree with Lineker's interpretation, so it's even more inexcusable. Forget Godwin and just link back to your argument.

No you have to remember that it’s only a nuanced and impartial argument when you blindly agree with the government and do not criticise it.