UK Politics Thread X: Immigration, Housing, Strikes oh my

[The Archregimancy]

The rise of the Coalition Avenir Québec (centre-right, nationalist, autonomist, but not pro-independence) and the near-collapse of the Parti Québécois (centre-left, nationalist, pro-independence) is something that should be more closely studied by Scots, regardless of how they feel regarding independence.

The PQ used to be the dominant force in Quebec politics, but now only holds 3 seats in the province's National Assembly, squeezed over the last 20 years from the left by the more activist Québec Solidaire, and from the right by a CAQ that's more attractive to soft sovereigntists who are comfortable pushing for a distinct Quebecois identity and provincial autonomy within Canada.

It would be easy to push the comparisons too far, but Quebec's history after the 1995 independence referendum is worth a close look.

If anything, the slow demise of the PQ is a warning about flip-flopping on independence and focusing on other political issues as a big tent party. The Bloc is the only Quebecois party in the Canadian parliament, while the PQ cannibalized itself at the provincial level.

And Canada’s federal political system and Anglo-French relations aren’t a bullet-proof analogy for Scotland and the UK.

If only I had taken care to write something along the lines of 'it would be easy to push the comparisons too far' in recognition of that very point.

[Saor Alba]

Ok, without commenting on abortion rights themselves which some view as women defending their bodies and others view as unjust killing, what's your opinion of Tony Martin shooting dead Master Barras? And if you're against that what's your ulterior motive (by your own logic)?

I think that, according to the law, he was dealt with properly. He was guilty of manslaughter by way of his diminished responsibility. However, I believe that the law should be changed. Tony Martin should not have gone to jail for murder or manslaughter, but should have been charged for illegal firearms possession.

I am a firm believer that a property owner has every right to use lethal force to defend their property from intruders as I believe that no homeowner can reasonably be expected to assume that a burglar is not going to cause them physical harm. If you value your life, don't break into people's properties. Simple!

[Privateer Stockholm]

However, I believe that the law should be changed. Tony Martin should not have gone to jail for murder or manslaughter, but should have been charged for illegal firearms possession.

I am a firm believer that a property owner has every right to use lethal force to defend their property from intruders as I believe that no homeowner can reasonably be expected to assume that a burglar is not going to cause them physical harm. If you value your life, don't break into people's properties. Simple!

I agree, thankfully, the law is now closer to our position than it was in 1999:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 90441.html

[El Lazaro]

If anything, the slow demise of the PQ is a warning about flip-flopping on independence and focusing on other political issues as a big tent party. The Bloc is the only Quebecois party in the Canadian parliament, while the PQ cannibalized itself at the provincial level.

And Canada’s federal political system and Anglo-French relations aren’t a bullet-proof analogy for Scotland and the UK.

If only I had taken care to write something along the lines of 'it would be easy to push the comparisons too far' in recognition of that very point.

Suggesting only supporting compromise could, in the same vein, make them more popular is most likely pushing the comparisons too far. Don't get me wrong, IMO some sort of federalism seems like it could be a reasonable solution, but going back on what's keeping the SNP together and prioritizing internally divisive issues is an awful electoral strategy.

[The Archregimancy]

I support the right to self defence of one's home, however, in the case, the "defence " seems to have been pemeditated, and the use of the shotgun to kill, rather than frighten the burglars away was overly excessive.

This is a case that was looked over alot in my 6th form law class.

Well answered.

Which political party would Oliver Cromwell support if alive today?

The Praisegod Barebone Fifth Monarchist League.

[Privateer Stockholm]

Well answered.

Which political party would Oliver Cromwell support if alive today?

The Praisegod Barebone Fifth Monarchist League.

I thought Oliver Cromwell was against the Fifth Monarchist denomination.

[The Archregimancy]

The Praisegod Barebone Fifth Monarchist League.

I thought Oliver Cromwell was against the Fifth Monarchist denomination.

Your ongoing struggles to grasp my sense of humour aside - and that could perhaps just be my fault - Cromwell was a Fifth Monarchist sympathiser through 1653. Cromwell's dissolution of the Rump Parliament in the summer of that year saw the Fifth Monarchists reach the peak of their influence under Barebone's Parliament (Praisegod Barebone being of the leading members of the group), with the Fifth Monarchists praising Cromwell as a quasi-Biblical second Moses.

Cromwell's dissolution of Barebone's Parliament in December 1653 and establishment of the Protectorate saw a breach with the Fifth Monarchists, but up until that point they had worked fairly closely together since the formation of the Commonwealth.

[El Lazaro]

I support the right to self defence of one's home, however, in the case, the "defence " seems to have been pemeditated, and the use of the shotgun to kill, rather than frighten the burglars away was overly excessive.

This is a case that was looked over alot in my 6th form law class.

Well answered.

Which political party would Oliver Cromwell support if alive today?

Ok, this might be a boring answer, but I really think Cromwell would be a Republican—the old-school, more progressive kind, y’know.

[Fartsniffage]

Well answered.

Which political party would Oliver Cromwell support if alive today?

Ok, this might be a boring answer, but I really think Cromwell would be a Republican—the old-school, more progressive kind, y’know.

Cromwell would support an American party?

[Privateer Stockholm]

Well answered.

Which political party would Oliver Cromwell support if alive today?

Ok, this might be a boring answer, but I really think Cromwell would be a Republican—the old-school, more progressive kind, y’know.

This is the UK thread. He might be a republican in the sense of "anti-monarchist" though. Probably because of Camilla and Prince Andrew. Not sure he'd agree with Harry and Meghan either.

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

What would Cromwell's position be on HS2?

[El Lazaro]

What would Cromwell's position be on HS2?

More importantly, what would his stance on the Church of England’s they/them pronouns media scare be?

[Privateer Stockholm]

What would Cromwell's position be on HS2?

More importantly, what would his stance on the Church of England’s they/them pronouns media scare be?

Well he'd be against the Church of England blessing male same-sex couples. I don't know if lesbianism was widely known at the time.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

He'd have more fundamental issues with the Church of England than pronouns tbh, given that it's an Anglican church and he very much was not - he held Independent views, as did much of the New Model Army, and he likely would regard the Church of England even today as still being too papist in nature.

[Fartsniffage]

What would Cromwell's position be on HS2?

Trains travelling faster then 25 miles per hour would kill people.

[Old Tyrannia]

I support the right to self defence of one's home, however, in the case, the "defence " seems to have been pemeditated, and the use of the shotgun to kill, rather than frighten the burglars away was overly excessive.

This is a case that was looked over alot in my 6th form law class.

Well answered.

Which political party would Oliver Cromwell support if alive today?

An odd question. Cromwell removed both the monarchy and Parliament from power in order to establish his own Puritan-dominated semi-theocratic military dictatorship; his politics would more closely resemble the modern-day Islamic Republic of Iran than any major British political parties. Although, given his severe Calvinism, what we would regard today as extreme social conservatism, and attitude towards Irish Catholics, the DUP or its more extreme rival Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) might be a surprisingly good fit, apart from the monarchism.

He'd have more fundamental issues with the Church of England than pronouns tbh, given that it's an Anglican church and he very much was not - he held Independent views, as did much of the New Model Army, and he likely would regard the Church of England even today as still being too papist in nature.

Given the influence of the Oxford Movement on the present-day Anglican Communion, as well as the influence of Arminian theology amongst present day Evangelical Anglicans, Cromwell would probably regard the Church of England of 2023 as even more papist than the Laudian church. There's probably very little he'd like about modern Britain in general.

[The Huskar Social Union]

*Pictures Cromwell in the TUV*

*Screams*

[Vassenor]

Ok, without commenting on abortion rights themselves which some view as women defending their bodies and others view as unjust killing, what's your opinion of Tony Martin shooting dead Master Barras? And if you're against that what's your ulterior motive (by your own logic)?

I think that, according to the law, he was dealt with properly. He was guilty of manslaughter by way of his diminished responsibility. However, I believe that the law should be changed. Tony Martin should not have gone to jail for murder or manslaughter, but should have been charged for illegal firearms possession.

I am a firm believer that a property owner has every right to use lethal force to defend their property from intruders as I believe that no homeowner can reasonably be expected to assume that a burglar is not going to cause them physical harm. If you value your life, don't break into people's properties. Simple!

It’s not defending your property if they’re already fleeing.

[Saor Alba]

Well answered.

Which political party would Oliver Cromwell support if alive today?

Ok, this might be a boring answer, but I really think Cromwell would be a Republican—the old-school, more progressive kind, y’know.

Cromwell was anything but progressive so probably not. But that aside, I do not think that we ever had a Republican Party.

[El Lazaro]

Ok, this might be a boring answer, but I really think Cromwell would be a Republican—the old-school, more progressive kind, y’know.

Cromwell was anything but progressive so probably not. But that aside, I do not think that we ever had a Republican Party.

The bar is not believing in Jewish space lasers and vampiric lizards, so I would wager he could pass it. Still, the joke is calling him a small-r republican. Of course the GOP doesn’t run in British elections.

[Saor Alba]

Cromwell was anything but progressive so probably not. But that aside, I do not think that we ever had a Republican Party.

The bar is not believing in Jewish space lasers and vampiric lizards, so I would wager he could pass it. Still, the joke is calling him a small-r republican. Of course the GOP doesn’t run in British elections.

Maybe I should brush up on US politics - or not, for the sake of my sanity - but I am so confused at trying to understand what you are saying.

[The Archregimancy]

Ok, this might be a boring answer, but I really think Cromwell would be a Republican—the old-school, more progressive kind, y’know.

Cromwell was anything but progressive so probably not. But that aside, I do not think that we ever had a Republican Party.

Moment of minor pedantry, but we very much have a Republican party active in the UK. Sinn Féin are Republican in both the broader sense and the narrower Irish sense.

[Saor Alba]

Cromwell was anything but progressive so probably not. But that aside, I do not think that we ever had a Republican Party.

Moment of minor pedantry, but we very much have a Republican party active in the UK. Sinn Féin are Republican in both the broader sense and the narrower Irish sense.

That is true, the use of a capitalised R made me think they were referring to a party called "The Republican Party".

[El Lazaro]

The bar is not believing in Jewish space lasers and vampiric lizards, so I would wager he could pass it. Still, the joke is calling him a small-r republican. Of course the GOP doesn’t run in British elections.

Maybe I should brush up on US politics - or not, for the sake of my sanity - but I am so confused at trying to understand what you are saying.

Uh, a lot of the beliefs of the hardline wing of the Republican Party are pretty bizarre and extreme, even to the point that presumably anti-Semitic 17th century Europeans would have found them a little too backwards. The Jewish space lasers part is in reference to a claim by a GOP representative that Jews start forest fires with satellite weapons, and the vampiric lizards are a combination of two separate conspiracy theories about an alleged globalist cabal that controls the world—the widespread one being that the cabalists rape and kill children to drink their blood, and the fringe one being a conspiracy theory based on anti-Semitic tropes which claims the globalists are humanoid reptilians rather than people.

Plus, it would be difficult to explain what a space laser or adrenochrome harvesting entail in the first place.

[Ifreann]

If Cromwell were alive he would obviously go into opinion journalism, not politics. He is, after all, just a talking head.