UK Politics Thread X: Boris party report released

[Nationalist Northumbria]

I assume that the Yorkshire Party will sweep into power with a solid margin and I won't check up on how likely this is.

The thing about the Yorkshire Party is, they don't really want power per see, they are just trying to highlight the necessity of a devolved Yorkshire Parliament, with links to other regionalist parties, to fight for decentralised control over education, environment, housing, transport, and a few other policy areas.

Why don't you join them if you like them so much?

[Vassenor]

Energy price cap to rise to £2,800 in October

So energy prices are set to skyrocket again despite the cost of gas collapsing.

[Celritannia]

The thing about the Yorkshire Party is, they don't really want power per see, they are just trying to highlight the necessity of a devolved Yorkshire Parliament, with links to other regionalist parties, to fight for decentralised control over education, environment, housing, transport, and a few other policy areas.

Why don't you join them if you like them so much?

Because -
A: the current voting system in the UK prevents me from selecting parties I like.
B: The Yorkshire Party allows you to still be members of other parties.
C: I do tend to vote for them in local elections if it is a proportional election ballot.

[Ifreann]

Energy price cap to rise to £2,800 in October

So energy prices are set to skyrocket again despite the cost of gas collapsing.

Just in time to freeze a few pensioners.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

Why don't you join them if you like them so much?

Because -
A: the current voting system in the UK prevents me from selecting parties I like.
B: The Yorkshire Party allows you to still be members of other parties.
C: I do tend to vote for them in local elections if it is a proportional election ballot.

1. How?
2. What? Proof?
3. There is no such thing as a "proportional election ballot" in England.

[Vassenor]

Because -
A: the current voting system in the UK prevents me from selecting parties I like.
B: The Yorkshire Party allows you to still be members of other parties.
C: I do tend to vote for them in local elections if it is a proportional election ballot.

1. How?
2. What? Proof?
3. There is no such thing as a "proportional election ballot" in England.

1. You do understand how FPTP inevitably collapses into a two-party system right?

[Nationalist Northumbria]

1. How?
2. What? Proof?
3. There is no such thing as a "proportional election ballot" in England.

1. You do understand how FPTP inevitably collapses into a two-party system right?

Plaid Cymru win seats in Wales.

[Celritannia]

Because -
A: the current voting system in the UK prevents me from selecting parties I like.
B: The Yorkshire Party still allows you to be members of other parties.
C: I tend to vote for them in local elections if it is a proportional election ballot.

1. How?
2. What? Proof?
3. There is no such thing as a "proportional election ballot" in England.

1. First Past The Post.
2. The Yorkshire Party has never been a party to bar people from different political parties. It only wishes to highlight the need for devolution, and I would argue, promote the necessity for a Federal UK.
3. Yes it does, the West Yorkshire Mayor Election uses a Supplementary Vote (My first vote was for Labour, and my second vote was for the Yorkshire Party).
You know what? Just read this.

[Celritannia]

1. You do understand how FPTP inevitably collapses into a two-party system right?

Plaid Cymru win seats in Wales.

Because Wales uses the Additional Members System for the Senedd.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Census: Northern Ireland population just under 2m

Northern Ireland's population has risen to almost 2m people, according to the results of the 2021 census.

The total of 1.9 million is the highest figure recorded since Northern Ireland was established in 1921.

Details about the population's religious make-up will be published in the autumn.

The latest figures show that the current population of Northern Ireland has increased by 5% since the last census in 2011.

The total population is 1,903,100, with slightly more females than males.

The NI Statistics and Research Agency (Nisra) announced the figures on Tuesday.

A Nisra spokesperson said: "Population increase was greatest in the older age groups.

"The number of people aged 65 or more rose by more than 60,000 to nearly one third of a million people - a near 25% increase on 2011.

"This demonstrates the scale of population change due to ageing. This looks set to continue as the 'baby boom' generation of the 1950s and 1960s reach retirement age.

"In contrast, and in line with the recent falling birth rate, the number of young children (aged 0 to 4) decreased by 9% from the last census."

At the last census, in 2011, the population was 1,810,900, an increase of 7% on the previous census.

=CONTINUES=

Would find out more till Autumn though, then we shall see how the ethnic and religious make up of NI has changed if at all.

[The Archregimancy]

1. You do understand how FPTP inevitably collapses into a two-party system right?

This is demonstrably incorrect.

FPTP tends to encourage a two-party dominant system, yes, and places obstacles on third party representation, but it doesn't 'inevitably collapse' into a two-party system. Even the most cursory examination of British political history over the last 150 years would show that there have been several periods of political instability where three or more parties have had a significant impact on the broader political system.

The only period in UK politics since the 1867 Reform Act enfranchised the urban working class when the UK has arguably 'collapsed' into a two party system was the period encompassed by the 1951 through 1959 general elections, where no party other than the Conservatives and Labour won more than 6% of the vote or won more than 6 seats.

If FPTP 'inevitably collapses' into a two-party system, then we would have expected that two-party dominance to remain intact in both vote share and seats. Instead, the tendency since 1959 has been away from a two-party system in both terms of vote share and parliamentary seats, and towards a multi-party system. The 2017 election seemed to briefly return us to the two party era of the 1950s (at least in England), with both of the main parties winning over 40% of the vote, but this was against the broader trend over the last 60 years.

Let's look at this another way. In 1951, the Conservative Party won 48% of the vote, Labour won 48.8% of the vote (though fewer seats), and the Liberals won 2.5% of the vote. In large part due to the Liberal vote collapsing to its nadir, both the Conservatives and Labour actually increased their vote share in '51. The Tories and Labour won all but nine seats in Parliament - the exceptions were the six Liberals, two Irish Nationalists, and one Irish Labour (and I'm not sure why Jack Beattie was running north of the border). This marks the apogee of the UK's two-party system. Since then, the trend has been towards greater plurality in vote share and political representation - something that shouldn't be possible if FPTP 'inevitably collapses' into a two-party system.

And that's just looking at the post-Second World War period; the point could equally be demonstrated across the entirety of the political system from 1867 onwards.

Again, it certainly seems true that FPTP seems to produce a two-party dominant system, and it places significant obstacles on the success of smaller parties, but it's not immune to change in or disruption to an existing two-party system, for example (focusing here solely on the UK) the significant upheaval of the British political system in the 1920s, the rise of the Liberals/Alliance/Liberal Democrats from 1974 through 2010, or the growth of nationalist parties.


And then there's Canada - which demonstrates the point at least as richly.


Which is a very long-winded way of saying that, and this is the kindest gloss I can put on the point, that your post was significantly lacking in nuance.

[Celritannia]

So, for the Tiverton and Honiton By-Election, we have a former headteacher for the Tories, a business woman for Labour, and a former Army Officer for the Lib Dems.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

1. How?
2. What? Proof?
3. There is no such thing as a "proportional election ballot" in England.

1. First Past The Post.
2. The Yorkshire Party has never been a party to bar people from different political parties. It only wishes to highlight the need for devolution, and I would argue, promote the necessity for a Federal UK.
3. Yes it does, the West Yorkshire Mayor Election uses a Supplementary Vote (My first vote was for Labour, and my second vote was for the Yorkshire Party).
You know what? Just read this.

1. It doesn't.
2. Reading their constitution I would think it does. Is there proof it doesn't?
3. OK, fine, you threw me off, I know mayoral elections use the supplementary vote (though it's going to be changed to FPTP).

Plaid Cymru win seats in Wales.

Because Wales uses the Additional Members System for the Senedd.

They win seats in Parliament too. There is no reason why the Yorkshire Party could not build a local government powerbase, target specific constituencies, and get into Parliament where it would be in a position to demand Yorkshire devolution in return for their support.

[Celritannia]

1. First Past The Post.
2. The Yorkshire Party has never been a party to bar people from different political parties. It only wishes to highlight the need for devolution, and I would argue, promote the necessity for a Federal UK.
3. Yes it does, the West Yorkshire Mayor Election uses a Supplementary Vote (My first vote was for Labour, and my second vote was for the Yorkshire Party).
You know what? Just read this.

1. It doesn't.
2. Reading their constitution I would think it does. Is there proof it doesn't?
3. OK, fine, you threw me off, I know mayoral elections use the supplementary vote (though it's going to be changed to FPTP).

Because Wales uses the Additional Members System for the Senedd.

They win seats in Parliament too. There is no reason why the Yorkshire Party could not build a local government powerbase, target specific constituencies, and get into Parliament where it would be in a position to demand Yorkshire devolution in return for their support.

1. Yes it does. The Yorkshire Party won't get seats in the Commons until FPTP is replaced.
To have stronger and actual democratic representation in the Commons, we need proportional representation, STV, or MMP.

2. then they may have changed their constitution since the last time I saw it.

3. Is there evidence for this? Because it is highly unlikely an FPTP vote will replace supplementary vote for any of the elected mayor's in the UK.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

1. It doesn't.
2. Reading their constitution I would think it does. Is there proof it doesn't?
3. OK, fine, you threw me off, I know mayoral elections use the supplementary vote (though it's going to be changed to FPTP).


They win seats in Parliament too. There is no reason why the Yorkshire Party could not build a local government powerbase, target specific constituencies, and get into Parliament where it would be in a position to demand Yorkshire devolution in return for their support.

1. Yes it does. The Yorkshire Party won't get seats in the Commons until FPTP is replaced.
To have stronger and actual democratic representation in the Commons, we need proportional representation, STV, or MMP.

2. then they may have changed their constitution since the last time I saw it.

3. Is there evidence for this? Because it is highly unlikely an FPTP vote will replace supplementary vote for any of the elected mayor's in the UK.

1. But it could?
2. So, you don't have proof?
3. Uh, yeah. The Elections Act 2022.

[Celritannia]

1. Yes it does. The Yorkshire Party won't get seats in the Commons until FPTP is replaced.
To have stronger and actual democratic representation in the Commons, we need proportional representation, STV, or MMP.

2. then they may have changed their constitution since the last time I saw it.

3. Is there evidence for this? Because it is highly unlikely an FPTP vote will replace supplementary vote for any of the elected mayor's in the UK.

1. But it could?
2. So, you don't have proof?
3. Uh, yeah. The Elections Act 2022.

1. Again, no. Why settle for less democratic representation, or allow parties to get more votes than they should?

2. When I say they must have changed it, that means they did, and now they don't. Because they did used to allow that when they were Yorkshire First.

3. Of course the Tory Party altered a democratic voting system to be more authortarian. They don't want to lose power because they know they are hated.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

1. But it could?
2. So, you don't have proof?
3. Uh, yeah. The Elections Act 2022.

1. Again, no. Why settle for less democratic representation, or allow parties to get more votes than they should?

2. When I say they must have changed it, that means they did, and now they don't. Because they did used to allow that when they were Yorkshire First.

3. Of course the Tory Party altered a democratic voting system to be more authortarian. They don't want to lose power because they know they are hated.

1. So they shouldn't bother trying to win seats in the current system?
2. How do you know this, though? Were there examples of this happening?

[Celritannia]

1. Again, no. Why settle for less democratic representation, or allow parties to get more votes than they should?

2. When I say they must have changed it, that means they did, and now they don't. Because they did used to allow that when they were Yorkshire First.

3. Of course the Tory Party altered a democratic voting system to be more authortarian. They don't want to lose power because they know they are hated.

1. So they shouldn't bother trying to win seats in the current system?
2. How do you know this, though? Were there examples of this happening?

1. Did I say that?
2. When something is altered, the original setup may not always exist. But it was the case back when they were founded in 2014.

I am going to stop responding to you because this discussion no longer serves a purpose.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

1. So they shouldn't bother trying to win seats in the current system?
2. How do you know this, though? Were there examples of this happening?

1. Did I say that?
2. When something is altered, the original setup may not always exist. But it was the case back when they were founded in 2014.

I am going to stop responding to you because this discussion no longer serves a purpose.

1. You sort of just did.
2. Not an answer.
3. I accept your concession of defeat, and humbly proclaim my victory.

[Vassenor]

1. Did I say that?
2. When something is altered, the original setup may not always exist. But it was the case back when they were founded in 2014.

I am going to stop responding to you because this discussion no longer serves a purpose.

1. You sort of just did.
2. Not an answer.
3. I accept your concession of defeat, and humbly proclaim my victory.

Protip : The Chewbacca Defence does not work in real life. Frustrating your opponent to the point where they are no willing to argue with you any more doesn't mean you won.

[Northern Seleucia]

Coming in as an American to observe. What's the big deal over across the pond?

[Nationalist Northumbria]

Coming in as an American to observe. What's the big deal over across the pond?

What?

[Philjia]

Coming in as an American to observe. What's the big deal over across the pond?

The Prime Minister broke some covid restrictions he set but refuses to resign, everything is very expensive because inflation is at 9%, and Northern Ireland has no devolved government because the Democratic Unionist Party wont participate in the mandatory coalition until free movement of goods between Britain and NI is restored.

[Northern Seleucia]

Coming in as an American to observe. What's the big deal over across the pond?

The Prime Minister broke some covid restrictions he set but refuses to resign, everything is very expensive because inflation is at 9%, and Northern Ireland has no devolved government because the Democratic Unionist Party wont participate in the mandatory coalition until free movement of goods between Britain and NI is restored.

Wait, over there you expect politicians to resign for breaking restrictions? You mean to tell me, in the U.K, politicians can't be hypocritical without being called to resign?

Must be nice. We've had dozens of politicians break restriction, and only a handful at most been called to resign.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

The Prime Minister broke some covid restrictions he set but refuses to resign, everything is very expensive because inflation is at 9%, and Northern Ireland has no devolved government because the Democratic Unionist Party wont participate in the mandatory coalition until free movement of goods between Britain and NI is restored.

Wait, over there you expect politicians to resign for breaking restrictions? You mean to tell me, in the U.K, politicians can't be hypocritical without being called to resign?

Must be nice. We've had dozens of politicians break restriction, and only a handful at most been called to resign.

Do you need to do this style of posting?