UK Politics Thread X: Immigration, Housing, Strikes oh my

[Ifreann]

These the same forebears who'd be aghast at there being women among the leaders of the great powers?

There have been many female leaders of nations, I don't understand what you are trying to say other than just implying that everyone before the 1960s say, was a frothing misogynist.

I am simply asking which forebears it is you are referring to. From which past generation are you taking this disapproval of a bit of staged informality among world leaders? Are the popular attitudes of that generation actually worth judging modern politicians by? Or were they one of the generations that tended to have rather unfortunate attitudes about women? Or possibly about some other group?

[Souseiseki]

Boris Johnson says Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if he was a woman
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61976526

Well there goes his incel support.

total idiot

wonder what he's trying to cover up this time

[Hirota]

What nonsense.

The microchips are shaped like Sir Keir's trans-dimensional lizard overlords; you know, the ones that built the Pyramids.

I thought it was the Goa'uld.
<.< >.>

Pffft, calls himself an archaeologist and doesn't know the Goa'uld built the pyramids. Teal'c is disappoint.

[Hirota]

Boris Johnson says Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if he was a woman
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61976526

Well there goes his incel support.

And if he was any real student of history he'd know that might not be true.

[Ifreann]

Boris Johnson says Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if he was a woman
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61976526

Well there goes his incel support.

total idiot

wonder what he's trying to cover up this time

Expensed his cocaine for the G7.

[Wrixian Isles]

There have been many female leaders of nations, I don't understand what you are trying to say other than just implying that everyone before the 1960s say, was a frothing misogynist.

I am simply asking which forebears it is you are referring to. From which past generation are you taking this disapproval of a bit of staged informality among world leaders? Are the popular attitudes of that generation actually worth judging modern politicians by? Or were they one of the generations that tended to have rather unfortunate attitudes about women? Or possibly about some other group?

Mostly just in general. When one looks at most early photographs, emphasis on most as there are some rather bizarre ones out there, statesmen are sat with rather earnest expressions. I think you know exactly what I mean in regards to this. The main point here is is that it is a ridiculously contrived photo and these people should at least try to maintain what shred of dignity their offices have left. We don't need our politicians to be cool relatable everybodies, we need them to be sincere, hardworking and principled figureheads. But no such character will ascend the greasy pole so that is that.

[Ifreann]

I am simply asking which forebears it is you are referring to. From which past generation are you taking this disapproval of a bit of staged informality among world leaders? Are the popular attitudes of that generation actually worth judging modern politicians by? Or were they one of the generations that tended to have rather unfortunate attitudes about women? Or possibly about some other group?

Mostly just in general. When one looks at most early photographs, emphasis on most as there are some rather bizarre ones out there, statesmen are sat with rather earnest expressions. I think you know exactly what I mean in regards to this.

I think you mean nothing more than a vague appeal to the past. Things used to be better! When? Doesn't matter. Was it even actually better? Doesn't matter. Current year bad!

The main point here is is that it is a ridiculously contrived photo and these people should at least try to maintain what shred of dignity their offices have left. We don't need our politicians to be cool relatable everybodies, we need them to be sincere, hardworking and principled figureheads. But no such character will ascend the greasy pole so that is that.

Ah yes, the dignity of the office. An artifice every bit as contrived as this effort at being cool and relatable.

[Wrixian Isles]

Mostly just in general. When one looks at most early photographs, emphasis on most as there are some rather bizarre ones out there, statesmen are sat with rather earnest expressions. I think you know exactly what I mean in regards to this.

I think you mean nothing more than a vague appeal to the past. Things used to be better! When? Doesn't matter. Was it even actually better? Doesn't matter. Current year bad!

The main point here is is that it is a ridiculously contrived photo and these people should at least try to maintain what shred of dignity their offices have left. We don't need our politicians to be cool relatable everybodies, we need them to be sincere, hardworking and principled figureheads. But no such character will ascend the greasy pole so that is that.

Ah yes, the dignity of the office. An artifice every bit as contrived as this effort at being cool and relatable.

Matters are not better by mere virtue of being in the past but that does not mean that areas regarding certain aspects of behaviour have progressed in the right direction either. Though I will be transparent and say that I for one do value the opinions and values of those that went before me and frequently contemplate on what they must think of Britain now. Should public offices not be dignified?

[Ifreann]

I think you mean nothing more than a vague appeal to the past. Things used to be better! When? Doesn't matter. Was it even actually better? Doesn't matter. Current year bad!

Ah yes, the dignity of the office. An artifice every bit as contrived as this effort at being cool and relatable.

Matters are not better by mere virtue of being in the past but that does not mean that areas regarding certain aspects of behaviour have progressed in the right direction either. Though I will be transparent and say that I for one do value the opinions and values of those that went before me and frequently contemplate on what they must think of Britain now. Should public offices not be dignified?

I don't think it's terribly important that politicians wear the costume of the dignified and serious professional. It's the exact same thing as trying to appear cool and relatable, just a slightly different style.

[Wrixian Isles]

Matters are not better by mere virtue of being in the past but that does not mean that areas regarding certain aspects of behaviour have progressed in the right direction either. Though I will be transparent and say that I for one do value the opinions and values of those that went before me and frequently contemplate on what they must think of Britain now. Should public offices not be dignified?

I don't think it's terribly important that politicians wear the costume of the dignified and serious professional. It's the exact same thing as trying to appear cool and relatable, just a slightly different style.

I would argue that it is the exact opposite. By accepting precedent, uniform and convention one is accepting one's place in a long line of office holders, they are placing the office above themselves -they must fit the office not the other way around. Whereas trying to buck those norms is vain, it is making the matter about oneself. Politicians should be dignified and serious professionals, though few are, they can certainly try and act like they are.

[Ifreann]

I don't think it's terribly important that politicians wear the costume of the dignified and serious professional. It's the exact same thing as trying to appear cool and relatable, just a slightly different style.

I would argue that it is the exact opposite. By accepting precedent, uniform and convention one is accepting one's place in a long line of office holders, they are placing the office above themselves -they must fit the office not the other way around. Whereas trying to buck those norms is vain, it is making the matter about oneself. Politicians should be dignified and serious professionals, though few are, they can certainly try and act like they are.

I think that if politicians were to actually be dignified and serious professionals then they would concern themselves above all with representing their constituents and fulfilling any other responsibilities of their office, and not at all with conforming to the conventions and traditions established by previous holders of the office.

[Wrixian Isles]

I would argue that it is the exact opposite. By accepting precedent, uniform and convention one is accepting one's place in a long line of office holders, they are placing the office above themselves -they must fit the office not the other way around. Whereas trying to buck those norms is vain, it is making the matter about oneself. Politicians should be dignified and serious professionals, though few are, they can certainly try and act like they are.

I think that if politicians were to actually be dignified and serious professionals then they would concern themselves above all with representing their constituents and fulfilling any other responsibilities of their office, and not at all with conforming to the conventions and traditions established by previous holders of the office.

And why must these be exclusive to each other? It is not an either or situation.

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

Boris Johnson seems dishonest already, without adding another layer of a false facade.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Majority of NI voters are in favour of the Protocol: poll

Support for the Northern Ireland Protocol is rising with a clear majority of voters viewing it as appropriate for managing the impact of Brexit here, according to a new opinion poll.

Some 55% of people agree that the protocol is a suitable arrangement — up 8% from a year ago — with 38% disagreeing.

Three-quarters of people want to see a UK-EU negotiated settlement to the outstanding issues around the protocol with 57% believing the government is unjustified in taking unilateral action to scrap parts of it.

The LucidTalk poll for Queen’s University, Belfast shows that 55% of voters believe that Brussels would be justified in taking retaliatory action if London does act unilaterally.

Some 55% of people think the protocol is having a positive impact on the Northern Ireland economy and 65% believe it offers unique opportunities that could benefit us.

While the most positive views were on the protocol’s economic advantages, the greatest concerns were over its political implications — with 59% of voters believing it is having a negative impact on political stability here and on relations between the UK and Irish Republic.

Almost six in 10 people don’t think Brexit is “a good thing” for the UK.

Exactly half of voters see the protocol as positive for the Good Friday Agreement whilst 38% view it as having a negative impact on the historic peace deal.

Some 46% of voters believe the protocol is harming Northern Ireland’s constitutional place in the UK.

Just over a third (36%) have no concerns about the full operational scope and impact of the protocol.

However, 55% do have such concerns if the protocol was to be fully implemented with no adjustment after the grace periods.

Customs declarations for parcels is the issue of most concern (55%) followed by restrictions on plants and seeds and chilled meats being brought into Northern Ireland from Britain and requirements for bringing in pets.

The issue of least concern is Northern Ireland aligning with Brussels’ standards for the production of goods, followed by the application of EU rules on subsidy control and state aid.

Just over a third (35%) of people said British food products they used to buy are no longer available where they usually shop but 41% said they were.

Slightly over a quarter of people (26%) said their national identity — British or Irish — is reflected in the food products they choose to buy whereas 54% said it wasn’t.

Only one in 10 people said they’d rather pay more for a product from Britain than buy one made elsewhere but almost three-quarters (72%) disagreed.

Eight in 10 people said that, if all else were equal, they would prefer to buy a Northern Ireland-made product to one produced elsewhere.

The poll was conducted from June 3-6 with 1,497 people taking part. It was scientifically weighted to reflect the electorate.

It is the fifth poll conduct for Queen’s as part of a three year (2021-2023) Economic and Social Research Council-funded research project.

It showed the protocol continues to be deeply divisive issue with only a small proportion of respondents having no opinion on it.

The Government, led by Boris Johnson, was by far the least trusted of all the key actors in the ongoing controversy.

Some 84% of people they distrusted it with just 5% saying they had trust in London.

Voters were marginally more inclined to trust (47%) than distrust (43%) the European Commission/EU.

They were also slightly more inclined to trust (45%) than distrust (42%) the Irish government.

Trust in the Executive to manage Northern Ireland’s interests regarding the protocol was strikingly low at 19%.

The most trusted local political party was Alliance (50%) followed by the SDLP (43%).

Levels of distrust were highest for the DUP (68%) and Sinn Fein (50%).

The protocol mattered for most voters in May’s Assembly election, although a quarter said a candidate’s position didn’t influence what candidate they supported.

Some 52% of people favour MLAs voting for the continued application of the protocol with 40% wanting Stormont representatives to oppose it.

The principal Investigator of the Queen’s project, Professor David Phinnemore said: “Many voters in Northern Ireland clearly continue to have genuine concerns about what the full operation of the protocol would mean.

"Yet, this latest poll also shows support for the protocol edging upwards and almost two-thirds of respondents seeing economic opportunities in it.

"Also it’s clear that voters would much prefer outstanding issues between the UK and the EU to be resolved through agreement and not unilateral action by the UK Government.”

Co-investigator Professor Katy Hayward, said: “People in Northern Ireland have clear views on the protocol and in some cases those views are strongly divided.

"But one of the things they agree most on (77%) is that the UK and EU should jointly present factual information on the protocol. The lack of agreement from the UK and EU as to the actual meaning and problems of the protocol is clearly exacerbating the divisive effects of the topic on the ground in Northern Ireland,” she added.

Link to the survey results themselves.

Some selected findings TLDR style:

---Brexit is on Balance a good thing for the UK: 32% Agree. 59% Disagree. 8% Neutral.
---The Protocol is on Balance a good thing for NI: 53% Agee. 37% Disagree. 10% Neutral.
---Protocol is appropriate for managing Brexit: 55% Agree. 38% Disagree. 7% Neutral.
---Particular Arrangements are Necessary: 87% Agree. 9% Disagree. 14% Neutral.

---

---Current impact of Protocol on Economy: 55% Positive. 36% Negative. 9% Neutral.
---Current impact of Protocol on GFA: 50% Positive. 38% Negative. 12% Neutral.
---Current impact of Protocol on North-South Cooperation: 49% Positive. 37% Negative. 14% Neutral.
---Current impact of Protocol on NI's constitutional place in the UK: 24% Positive. 46% Negative. 30% Neutral.
---Current impact of Protocol on British Irish Relations: 19% Positive. 59% Negative. 22% Neutral.
---Current impact of Protocol on Political Stability in NI: 23% Positive. 57% Negative. 16% Neutral.

---

---Do you have any concerns about the Protocol’s full operational scope and impact?: 55% Yes. 36% No. 9% Neutral.

---

Level of Trust/distrust in the following actors to manage the interests of Northern Ireland with respect to the Protocol:
---NI Business Reps: 60% Trust. 15% Distrust. 24% Neutral.
---Uls. Unionist Party: 30% Trust. 38% Distrust. 31% Neutral.
---Soc-Dem Labour Party: 47% Trust. 38% Distrust. 14% Neutral.
---Alliance Party: 50% Trust. 38% Distrust. 11% Neutral.
---Sinn Fein: 36% Trust. 50% Distrust. 13% Neutral.
---Dem. Unionist Party: 25% Trust. 68% Distrust. 7% Neutral.
---EU Commission: 47% Trust. 43% Distrust. 9% Neutral.
---Irish Government: 45% Trust. 42% Distrust. 13% Neutral.
---NI Executive: 19% Trust. 44% Distrust. 35% Neutral.
---UK Government: 5% Trust. 84% Distrust. 11% Neutral.

Oh and 57% of people feel the UK is unjustified in taking unilateral action to scrap it and 55% feel Brussels/The EU would be justified in taking retaliatory action. More people trust the EU commission and Irish Governments when it comes to maintaining NI's interests where as the UK government is overwhelmingly distrusted followed by the DUP, with NI Business representatives and Alliance being the most trusted locally.

Not that any of this matters though as the UK government is going to completely fucking ignore all of it lmao smile

[The Huskar Social Union]

The Lib Dems name their price for a deal with Labour

The price of Liberal Democrat support for a Labour minority government would start with electoral reform without a referendum, in a confidence and supply agreement, I’m informed. Senior Labour and Lib Dem figures are turning thoughts to potential arrangements as the by-election results from Wakefield and Tiverton and Honiton, Boris Johnson’s continuing leadership and the cost-of-living crisis heighten the prospect of Tory election defeat. Keir Starmer is unlikely to secure an overall majority, so the Con-Dem coalition veteran Ed Davey’s current thinking is to demand a fairer voting system instead of short-term ministerial posts, red boxes and cars. Tories who fear that a Lab-Lib pincer movement could lock them out of power will go spare. Avoiding Nick Clegg’s 2011 electoral referendum mistake would fuel Johnson’s claims that both opposition parties would also ignore the EU referendum result and get Brexit undone. “We’ve just got to bite the bullet,” screamed my snout.

edit: allegedly that is, ive been trying to look for another source but cant find it.

[Celritannia]

There are more than 20 independent European countries smaller by population than Scotland. Hearing over and over how we're somehow uniquely ill equipped and couldn't possibly manage because we haven't got this, that or the other gets really old.

Also, you might not have noticed but there's a climate crisis. More renewable energy is probably a good idea.

Scotland is of course entirely capable of existing as an independent sovereign state; I don't think anyone really doubts that, at least anyone whose opinion is worth giving consideration to. The question of whether Scotland is well-prepared at the present time to function as a sovereign state, or whether it would benefit from becoming such, is another matter altogether. Certainly I think Scotland would struggle as a separate state to provide its citizens with the services and benefits it currently provides them with.

Not to mention, the border question will be a much bigger problem than it already is in Ireland.

Millions of people, whether businesses or regular people, cross the English-Scottish border daily, and it will impact so many people's lives to a point it would be difficult to manage.

Not to mention, a hard border between England and Scotland would lead to disastrous problems for both countries if Scotland joined the EU after independence.

[Celritannia]

Question from across the pond, why is Keir Starmer still saddled with low favorability ratings despite Labour being ahead in the polls? Are people planning on begrudgingly voting Labour/Lib Dem (for now at least) just because Johnson is doing that much of a shit job? Keir seems almost deliberately inoffensive and able to appeal to many blocs of voters, so I just don't quite get it.

admittedly a personal thing, but i don't like the inoffensive. his ability to appeal to many blocs of voters comes at the cost of seeming to have no principles or conviction and frankly being a bit boring. boris, say what you will, is not boring.

I support Ed Milliband becoming Leader of the UK Labour Party again.

Although Andy Burnham and Dan Jarvis are also perfect for the role.

[The Archregimancy]

I thought it was the Goa'uld.
<.< >.>

Pffft, calls himself an archaeologist and doesn't know the Goa'uld built the pyramids. Teal'c is disappoint.

Look, only one of us posting in this thread used to have an office within walking distance of the Pyramids of Giza, and if I say they were built by Sir Keir Starmer's trans-dimensional lizard overlords, and not Goa'uld, then trans-dimensional lizards it is.

[Fartsniffage]

Let's just accept that Goa'uld are a kind of space snake and you're both sort of right.

[The Archregimancy]

Let's just accept that Goa'uld are a kind of space snake and you're both sort of right.

This sounds like you're suggesting we engage with nuance and compromise.

In a politics thread.

In NSG.

Are you sure you're feeling OK?

[Vassenor]

Let's just accept that Goa'uld are a kind of space snake and you're both sort of right.

Starmer isn't anywhere near megalomanical to be a Goa'uld though.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Met Police sued in High Court for 'not properly investigating' Boris Johnson over Partygate

The Met Police will be sued in the High Court after the force was accused of not properly investigating Boris Johnson over Partygate.

Formal proceedings were issued today by Brian Paddick, the Lib Dem peer and Scotland Yard's former Deputy Assistant Commissioner, and the Good Law Project, which took a string of legal actions against the government over Covid.

Their case accuses the Met of failing to issue questionnaires to Boris Johnson over three Covid law-breaking leaving dos that were held at 10 Downing Street.

They were for aide Lee Cain on 13 November 2020, for defence advisor Capt Steve Higham on 17 December 2020, for two No10 private secretaries on 14 January 2021.

The Mirror previously revealed that Boris Johnson was only sent questionnaires for two out of the six shindigs he attended.

They were for his 56th birthday party on June 19, 2020 - in which he, wife Carrie and Chancellor Rishi Sunak each received fixed penalties - and a gathering on 13 November 2020 in the Downing Street flat.

=CONTINUES=

[Fartsniffage]

Let's just accept that Goa'uld are a kind of space snake and you're both sort of right.

This sounds like you're suggesting we engage with nuance and compromise.

In a politics thread.

In NSG.

Are you sure you're feeling OK?

I'm sorry. I don't know what came over me.

[Ifreann]

Met Police sued in High Court for 'not properly investigating' Boris Johnson over Partygate

The Met Police will be sued in the High Court after the force was accused of not properly investigating Boris Johnson over Partygate.

Formal proceedings were issued today by Brian Paddick, the Lib Dem peer and Scotland Yard's former Deputy Assistant Commissioner, and the Good Law Project, which took a string of legal actions against the government over Covid.

Their case accuses the Met of failing to issue questionnaires to Boris Johnson over three Covid law-breaking leaving dos that were held at 10 Downing Street.

They were for aide Lee Cain on 13 November 2020, for defence advisor Capt Steve Higham on 17 December 2020, for two No10 private secretaries on 14 January 2021.

The Mirror previously revealed that Boris Johnson was only sent questionnaires for two out of the six shindigs he attended.

They were for his 56th birthday party on June 19, 2020 - in which he, wife Carrie and Chancellor Rishi Sunak each received fixed penalties - and a gathering on 13 November 2020 in the Downing Street flat.

=CONTINUES=

Arrest the Met.

[Great Heathen Air Force]

I thought it was the Goa'uld.
<.< >.>

Pffft, calls himself an archaeologist and doesn't know the Goa'uld built the pyramids. Teal'c is disappoint.

To be fair, senior members of the SGC are prohibited from discussing these matters with the public.