U.S Massacre Thread

[Thermodolia]

Which is like saying a murderer is better than a child rapist.

They are both clearly bad.

The point is that the popular cry for solving mass shootings with more guns is a bit fucking silly when the police were right there and did not prevent the shooting. Clearly the shooting did not happen due to a dearth of guns.

But maybe if the police actually did their job like that border patrol agent who charged into the school then this wouldn’t have happened.

You claimed that a good guy with a gun wouldn’t have solved this, because the cops didn’t shoot the guy. Clearly the cops aren’t good guys because I bet you that if the kid had been non-white he’d have been shot to death on the streets.

The cops aren’t good guys at all. And they either need to do their job correctly and without being a racist fuck or get disarmed

[American Legionaries]

I’m not totalitarian says the guy who thinks everyone should fuck off because they don’t agree with him.

Not what I said. The overwhelming majority wants change but our senators are too sacred of the gun lobby and won’t get rid of the sacred fillibuster.

What change?

[Thermodolia]

Not what I said. The overwhelming majority wants change but our senators are too sacred of the gun lobby and won’t get rid of the sacred fillibuster.

What change?

Most polls will have a something needs to change and overwhelmingly people agree. Then they ask about background checks and people agree however once you start getting into the weeds people stop agreeing with you.

So in reality Americans like the idea of background checks, not the actual implementation of them

[American Legionaries]

What change?

Most polls will have a something needs to change and overwhelmingly people agree. Then they ask about background checks and people agree however once you start getting into the weeds people stop agreeing with you.

So in reality Americans like the idea of background checks, not the actual implementation of them

I mean, that tracks. I like the idea of background checks, and yet I duck them whenever I can.

[Fartsniffage]

The point is that the popular cry for solving mass shootings with more guns is a bit fucking silly when the police were right there and did not prevent the shooting. Clearly the shooting did not happen due to a dearth of guns.

But maybe if the police actually did their job like that border patrol agent who charged into the school then this wouldn’t have happened.

You claimed that a good guy with a gun wouldn’t have solved this, because the cops didn’t shoot the guy. Clearly the cops aren’t good guys because I bet you that if the kid had been non-white he’d have been shot to death on the streets.

The cops aren’t good guys at all. And they either need to do their job correctly and without being a racist fuck or get disarmed

The killer was hispanic.

[Thermodolia]

But maybe if the police actually did their job like that border patrol agent who charged into the school then this wouldn’t have happened.

You claimed that a good guy with a gun wouldn’t have solved this, because the cops didn’t shoot the guy. Clearly the cops aren’t good guys because I bet you that if the kid had been non-white he’d have been shot to death on the streets.

The cops aren’t good guys at all. And they either need to do their job correctly and without being a racist fuck or get disarmed

The killer was hispanic.

Depends on how white looking he was. But still you get the point if the guy was black or fairly dark skinned he would have been shot as soon as possible.

Which means the cops aren’t the good guys and should be disarmed because they can’t do shit

[Fartsniffage]

The killer was hispanic.

Depends on how white looking he was. But still you get the point if the guy was black or fairly dark skinned he would have been shot as soon as possible.

Which means the cops aren’t the good guys and should be disarmed because they can’t do shit

He was open carrying in Texas. Assuming the cops didn't know that he had already shot his grandmother, until he entered the school what law was he breaking for them to stop him?

[Ifreann]

The point is that the popular cry for solving mass shootings with more guns is a bit fucking silly when the police were right there and did not prevent the shooting. Clearly the shooting did not happen due to a dearth of guns.

But maybe if the police actually did their job like that border patrol agent who charged into the school then this wouldn’t have happened.

You claimed that a good guy with a gun wouldn’t have solved this, because the cops didn’t shoot the guy. Clearly the cops aren’t good guys because I bet you that if the kid had been non-white he’d have been shot to death on the streets.

The cops aren’t good guys at all. And they either need to do their job correctly and without being a racist fuck or get disarmed

I'm not defending the police, I'm criticising the argument that if there was more armed people then these shootings would be stopped sooner.

[American Legionaries]

But maybe if the police actually did their job like that border patrol agent who charged into the school then this wouldn’t have happened.

You claimed that a good guy with a gun wouldn’t have solved this, because the cops didn’t shoot the guy. Clearly the cops aren’t good guys because I bet you that if the kid had been non-white he’d have been shot to death on the streets.

The cops aren’t good guys at all. And they either need to do their job correctly and without being a racist fuck or get disarmed

I'm not defending the police, I'm criticising the argument that if there was more armed people then these shootings would be stopped sooner.

Perhaps if there were more competent armed people?

[Fartsniffage]

Here is a brief timeline of how the shooting at Robb Elementary School unfolded on Tuesday:

11:32 - The shooting begins when the gunman crashes his car outside the school and runs into the building.

Elisha Mata told the New York Times that her nephew was in the school. Staff turned off the lights and told everyone to be quiet. Doors were locked and students escaped through a side exit, she said, where they hid in a backyard.

11:43 - The school announces it's on lockdown "due to gunshots in the area".

12:17 - The school announces there is an active shooter on site.

Teams of Border Patrol agents race to the school, including 10 to 15 members of a SWAT-like tactical and counterterrorism unit, Jason Owens, a top regional official with the Border Patrol, told the Associated Press.

12:23 - Scene is still active. Parents are told to pick up children at Sgt. Willie Deleon Civic Centre.

13:06 - The suspected shooter - Salvador Rolando Ramos, 18, of Uvalde - is killed by police at the scene.

AP reports that a US Border Patrol official who was nearby when the shooting began rushed into the school and shot and killed the gunman, who was behind a barricade.

Two border agents were reportedly shot in an exchange with the gunman. One agent was shot in the head, officials say, adding that both were now in a stable condition in hospital.

[Fartsniffage]

I'm not defending the police, I'm criticising the argument that if there was more armed people then these shootings would be stopped sooner.

Perhaps if there were more competent armed people?

Agreed.

All firearms owners should be subject to monthly training of at least 8 hours. 4 hours in the range and 4 hours of classroom training at their own expense. For the children.

[San Lumen]

Perhaps if there were more competent armed people?

Agreed.

All firearms owners should be subject to monthly training of at least 8 hours. 4 hours in the range and 4 hours of classroom training at their own expense. For the children.

Or do what New Zealand did and if people don’t like it they can go cry over their stupid guns. Our leaders need to act and tell the gun lobby to shut up.

[American Legionaries]

Agreed.

All firearms owners should be subject to monthly training of at least 8 hours. 4 hours in the range and 4 hours of classroom training at their own expense. For the children.

Or do what New Zealand did and if people don’t like it they can go cry over their stupid guns. Our leaders need to act and tell the gun lobby to shut up.

You've expressed this particular fantasy before.

[San Lumen]

Or do what New Zealand did and if people don’t like it they can go cry over their stupid guns. Our leaders need to act and tell the gun lobby to shut up.

You've expressed this particular fantasy before.

We could do it if we got rid of the sacred fillibuster.

[American Legionaries]

You've expressed this particular fantasy before.

We could do it if we got rid of the sacred fillibuster.

Unlikely, and even if we could, we shouldn't.

[Big Jim P]

Because the US has a different culture than those. Time and time again I’ve said it but you don’t care to listen. The US is not the same culture as Australia, New Zealand, Canada or Europe.

The US culture is a lot closer to the culture of central and South America.

I don’t care. Something needs to be done and if the gun lobby and NRA don’t like it they can jump
Off a cliff. The court should be told to take a hike too and held responsible for the bloodshed if they strike down New York’s law.

By that logic, gun grabbers should be held liable for every time a person is unable to defend themselves.

[American Legionaries]

I don’t care. Something needs to be done and if the gun lobby and NRA don’t like it they can jump
Off a cliff. The court should be told to take a hike too and held responsible for the bloodshed if they strike down New York’s law.

By that logic, gun grabbers should be held liable for every time a person is unable to defend themselves.

Jim, please... "Logic"?

[Sordhau]

We could do it if we got rid of the sacred fillibuster.

Unlikely, and even if we could, we shouldn't.

What, you mean the mass disarmament of the people is a bad thing? What a concept!

[San Lumen]

I don’t care. Something needs to be done and if the gun lobby and NRA don’t like it they can jump
Off a cliff. The court should be told to take a hike too and held responsible for the bloodshed if they strike down New York’s law.

By that logic, gun grabbers should be held liable for every time a person is unable to defend themselves.

No they should not. You do not need anything other than a pistol, shotgun or hunting rifle.

The PM of New Zealand isn’t a gun grabber. She did what needed to be done.

[Fartsniffage]

By that logic, gun grabbers should be held liable for every time a person is unable to defend themselves.

No they should not. You do not need anything other than a pistol, shotgun or hunting rifle.

The PM of New Zealand isn’t a gun grabber. She did what needed to be done.

The vast majority of gun deaths in the US come from pistols.

[American Legionaries]

By that logic, gun grabbers should be held liable for every time a person is unable to defend themselves.

No they should not. You do not need anything other than a pistol, shotgun or hunting rifle.

For starters, that's not true. Secondly, that's not your call to make. And thirdly, who gives a rat's ass what I "need" that isn't how rights work.

[Big Jim P]

The AR15 is not a weapon of war.

It literally is.

"I don't want to spend the rest of my life looking at the barrel of an Armalite"

AR15's are never actually AR15s but the original thing was literally designed for infantry forces.

Don't run your mouth, yeah?

How about you learn the difference between an actual weapon of war (the M16/M4) and a civilian sport/defense rifle (the AR15) before YOU start running yours?

[San Lumen]

No they should not. You do not need anything other than a pistol, shotgun or hunting rifle.

For starters, that's not true. Secondly, that's not your call to make. And thirdly, who gives a rat's ass what I "need" that isn't how rights work.

Yes it is you simply refuse to acknowledge it.

[Forsher]

It literally is.

"I don't want to spend the rest of my life looking at the barrel of an Armalite"

AR15's are never actually AR15s but the original thing was literally designed for infantry forces.

Don't run your mouth, yeah?

Weapon of war is so subjective. Literally just about anything can be used as a weapon of war.
I do find it interesting on how a .223/5.56 which is nothing more than a modified .224 is ok when used in a classic type of firearm, but once that same round is fired from a msr, it becomes way to dangerous.

Oh, sure, there's a lot of wriggle room... in this case mostly because when they say AR15 do they mean an AR15 or AR15 style (there are three Wikipedia pages, one for each AR15 AR15 and then one more for the AR15 style rifle)... but ignoring that not only was the AR15 designed for infantry and became the underlying design for the M16 is delusional.

As you observe, the complaint is somewhat ridiculous in all directions. You wouldn't say a Brown Bess or, hell, a longbow is a weapon of war today but that doesn't mean they're not.

Anyway, I'm not particularly interested in the details, I just happen to know a tiny little bit about the history of AR15s because of the aforementioned lyric (which, I have a niggling doubt may have referred to a different Armalite, technically). For a modern weapon, if you can fire more than two rounds without having to load, it's not intended for any purpose other than either human on human violence or threatening the possibility of it.

[Big Jim P]

For starters, that's not true. Secondly, that's not your call to make. And thirdly, who gives a rat's ass what I "need" that isn't how rights work.

Yes it is you simply refuse to acknowledge it.

Since you are the one proposing an infringement on a right, YOU need to come up with one helluva justification.