U.S Massacre Thread

[Kerwa]

So do I.

Now the real question? Would those supporters accept tax increases to fund said programs?

People support taxes for things when they see results. I’ve no doubt that a tax increase for a effective mental health program would be accepted by the majority. (Especially as the benefits would extend beyond just gun issues).

It’s when taxes are levied and squandered people get mad - very few are ideologically opposed to all tax, just as very few are communist.

[Tarsonis]

Attempting suicides can go two ways : you survive or you don’t ; guns are the most lethal way of attempting suicide https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/m ... s-suicide/

Guns are linked to suicides

sure but suicide is not method dependent in the way homicides are.

[American Legionaries]

The gun community is a vast politically different group.

There’s not one single leader and not all gun owners are die hard conservatives who hate everything.

So I’d say it depends on the person, I support expanded mental healthcare that should be provided by the government and id like to think that others in the gun community would like expanded mental health care too

So do I.

Now the real question? Would those supporters accept tax increases to fund said programs?

That's like asking if New York Yankees fans support a particular tax policy. The only answer you're going to get is "well some do"

[Thermodolia]

There’s multiple reasons why someone might carry when going outside. Living in a bad area is only one of them, you also got stalking victims, sexual assault/rape survivors, people living in the middle of nowhere, animals (both four and two legged), and some just like the way a gun feels

I get the victims of a crime. Though I could see concern of said people freaking and shooting what they perceive as a threat (granted a guess and another discussion). People living in the middle of nowhere?….don’t think that’s really a concern of the so called “gun grabbers”

Now the gun feels? Sure. Empowered does make people feel good and at times stupid. I remember years ago when pepper spray was the big thing to carry for personal defense. I forget what city; the police noticed an uptick in violence involved women. What they noticed is women started to ignore their base instincts and walked right into areas carrying the spray. They tried to educate people yes it’s a weapon. It’s not going to protect you from attack. They even went as far as to setup demonstrations. “There is a policeman out in this parking lot. He will attack you and wrestle you to the ground. Carry your spray at the ready and use it. He knows…..”. Not exact obviously. It was multiple women and the attacker took them all down. Only got sprayed “a little” on one instance. It hurt; it wasn’t enough to stop him though.

Anyway…..

Pepper spray is a lot different than a gun though.

[Thermodolia]

Attempting suicides can go two ways : you survive or you don’t ; guns are the most lethal way of attempting suicide https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/m ... s-suicide/

Guns are linked to suicides

Yes but not the cause. You will still have suicides even if all guns are gone.

Maybe we should work on the cause of suicides rather than a means?

[The Black Forrest]

I get the victims of a crime. Though I could see concern of said people freaking and shooting what they perceive as a threat (granted a guess and another discussion). People living in the middle of nowhere?….don’t think that’s really a concern of the so called “gun grabbers”

Now the gun feels? Sure. Empowered does make people feel good and at times stupid. I remember years ago when pepper spray was the big thing to carry for personal defense. I forget what city; the police noticed an uptick in violence involved women. What they noticed is women started to ignore their base instincts and walked right into areas carrying the spray. They tried to educate people yes it’s a weapon. It’s not going to protect you from attack. They even went as far as to setup demonstrations. “There is a policeman out in this parking lot. He will attack you and wrestle you to the ground. Carry your spray at the ready and use it. He knows…..”. Not exact obviously. It was multiple women and the attacker took them all down. Only got sprayed “a little” on one instance. It hurt; it wasn’t enough to stop him though.

Anyway…..

Pepper spray is a lot different than a gun though.

I thought that was apparent.

Again empowerment can make people be stupid and ignore their instincts of “don’t go there”. Not to worry; I have a gun!

[Islamic Essarn]

Guns are linked to suicides

Yes but not the cause. You will still have suicides even if all guns are gone.

Maybe we should work on the cause of suicides rather than a means?

First of all. Why not combat both nice that will have the most effect
Second of, in some cases guns are the cause, such as when the suicide is the result of PTSD caused by mass shootings.

[Grinning Dragon]

Yes but not the cause. You will still have suicides even if all guns are gone.

Maybe we should work on the cause of suicides rather than a means?

First of all. Why not combat both nice that will have the most effect
Second of, in some cases guns are the cause, such as when the suicide is the result of PTSD caused by mass shootings.

Guns don't cause anything, it's just a tool, blaming it for someone taking themselves out doesn't address the root issue.

[Tarsonis]

Yes but not the cause. You will still have suicides even if all guns are gone.

Maybe we should work on the cause of suicides rather than a means?

First of all. Why not combat both nice that will have the most effect
Second of, in some cases guns are the cause, such as when the suicide is the result of PTSD caused by mass shootings.

what's next, ban buildings over 8 ft in height?

[Islamic Essarn]

First of all. Why not combat both nice that will have the most effect
Second of, in some cases guns are the cause, such as when the suicide is the result of PTSD caused by mass shootings.

Guns don't cause anything, it's just a tool, blaming it for someone taking themselves out doesn't address the root issue.

An event needs two things to function: a how and a why. The best way to stop an event is take away both.

[Thermodolia]

First of all. Why not combat both nice that will have the most effect
Second of, in some cases guns are the cause, such as when the suicide is the result of PTSD caused by mass shootings.

what's next, ban buildings over 8 ft in height?

I’m sorry sir but second story windows are not allowed

[Thermodolia]

Guns don't cause anything, it's just a tool, blaming it for someone taking themselves out doesn't address the root issue.

An event needs two things to function: a how and a why. The best way to stop an event is take away both.

Or you invest in better mental healthcare without violating the rights of many

[The Black Forrest]

First of all. Why not combat both nice that will have the most effect
Second of, in some cases guns are the cause, such as when the suicide is the result of PTSD caused by mass shootings.

what's next, ban buildings over 8 ft in height?

If it’s a trump tower? Yes. Less room for garish layouts.

[Tarsonis]

what's next, ban buildings over 8 ft in height?

If it’s a trump tower? Yes. Less room for garish layouts.

touché

[Islamic Essarn]

First of all. Why not combat both nice that will have the most effect
Second of, in some cases guns are the cause, such as when the suicide is the result of PTSD caused by mass shootings.

what's next, ban buildings over 8 ft in height?

Ahh yes, the slippery slope argument rears it’s ugly head again.
No, because an average of 8 building collapses happen every year, compared with more 250 mass shooting in 2022. And also no, because we need to have buildings over 8 feet high, but we don’t need to have guns.

[Islamic Essarn]

An event needs two things to function: a how and a why. The best way to stop an event is take away both.

Or you invest in better mental healthcare without violating the rights of many

First of all : invest in both and you can reduce gun violence the most.
Second of all : gun rights are not human rights.

[Grinning Dragon]

what's next, ban buildings over 8 ft in height?

Ahh yes, the slippery slope argument rears it’s ugly head again.
No, because an average of 8 building collapses happen every year, compared with more 250 mass shooting in 2022. And also no, because we need to have buildings over 8 feet high, but we don’t need to have guns.

I think this went over your head. Tall buildings with windows/roof access, suicidal person jumps to their death.
250? Yeah calling bullshit.

[Thermodolia]

what's next, ban buildings over 8 ft in height?

Ahh yes, the slippery slope argument rears it’s ugly head again.
No, because an average of 8 building collapses happen every year, compared with more 250 mass shooting in 2022. And also no, because we need to have buildings over 8 feet high, but we don’t need to have guns.

Buildings over 8 Ft can also be a great place to jump from as an over 8 ft drop can kill you or permanently do damage.

I had a buddy who fell from 14 ft up, broke his spine and now is in a wheelchair, he’s lucky he didn’t die

[Thermodolia]

Or you invest in better mental healthcare without violating the rights of many

First of all : invest in both and you can reduce gun violence the most.
Second of all : gun rights are not human rights.

Strong disagree on the second

[Vassenor]

First of all : invest in both and you can reduce gun violence the most.
Second of all : gun rights are not human rights.

Strong disagree on the second

Show the class where the guns are stored.

[Grinning Dragon]

Strong disagree on the second

Show the class where the guns are stored.

the un.

[Tarsonis]

what's next, ban buildings over 8 ft in height?

Ahh yes, the slippery slope argument rears it’s ugly head again.
No, because an average of 8 building collapses happen every year, compared with more 250 mass shooting in 2022. And also no, because we need to have buildings over 8 feet high, but we don’t need to have guns.

Missed the point. It's not a slippery slope it's the inherent fallacy of going after the means. Say you do ban all guns, what then? people are gonna still kill themselves through various means. Are you gonna ban all those too? or are you just deceitfully abusing suicides as a means of getting rid of guns because you don't actually care?

[Tarsonis]

Strong disagree on the second

Show the class where the guns are stored.

The UN is the absolute last group you want being arbiter of human rights. just ask Saudi Arabia how well that works out.

[Islamic Essarn]

First of all : invest in both and you can reduce gun violence the most.
Second of all : gun rights are not human rights.

Strong disagree on the second

Name three reasons why they are human rights

[Islamic Essarn]

Show the class where the guns are stored.

The UN is the absolute last group you want being arbiter of human rights. just ask Saudi Arabia how well that works out.

And who should be the arbitrator of human rights? The USA, a nation that may have committed war crimes in Iraq and Syria.