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Southern independence

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Arvenia
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Founded: Aug 21, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Arvenia » Sun May 15, 2022 9:57 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:And, purely for comparison with the Southern numbers, here's how the North voted:

1997 general election
LAB — 4,143,316 — 54.9%
CON — 1,987,621 — 26.3%
LDM — 1,105,663 — 14.6%

2001 general election
LAB — 3,158,600 — 51.5%
CON — 1,727,500 — 28.2%
LDM — 1,033,800 — 16.9%

2005 general election
LAB — 2,866,128 — 45.9%
CON — 1,700,138 — 27.2%
LDM — 1,340,250 — 21.5%

2010 general election
LAB — 2,632,607 — 38.5%
CON — 2,091,209 — 30.6%
LDM — 1,531,922 — 22.4%

2015 general election
LAB — 3,015,984 — 43.1%
CON — 2,147,829 — 30.7%
UKIP — 1,049,817 — 15.0%
LDM — 471,162 — 6.7%

2017 general election
LAB — 3,958,320 — 53.1%
CON — 2,796,274 — 37.5%
LDM — 381,243 — 5.1%

2019 general election
LAB — 3,160,167 — 43.2%
CON — 2,896,774 — 39.6%
LDM — 567,673 — 7.8%
BRX — 385,736 — 5.3%

Vassenor wrote:
I mean if you're not going to back up your arguments with evidence then we don't need evidence to dismiss them as crackpottery.

You do, actually, because I'm not going to play the "source?? SOURCE???" game.

Bruh, you need to stop with this nonsense. Southern independence is just as ridiculous as Northern independence. This is probably not healthy for you.
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Kerwa
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Postby Kerwa » Sun May 15, 2022 10:03 am

The fiscal transfers from the south to the north are structural, not political. It’s part of maintaining an OCA.

Spending excess spending on London is likely corruption however.

The real question is not southern independence but whether the rest of England needs independence from London.
Last edited by Kerwa on Sun May 15, 2022 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Sun May 15, 2022 10:08 am

Arvenia wrote:Bruh, you need to stop with this nonsense. Southern independence is just as ridiculous as Northern independence. This is probably not healthy for you.

We're not discussing Northern independence. Also, I fail to see what is 'probably not healthy' about me posting about it beyond the obvious health risks that come from using the NS forum. Also, it's not necessarily Southern independence, which you would know if you had bothered to read the OP.
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Arvenia
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Arvenia » Sun May 15, 2022 10:12 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Arvenia wrote:Bruh, you need to stop with this nonsense. Southern independence is just as ridiculous as Northern independence. This is probably not healthy for you.

We're not discussing Northern independence. Also, I fail to see what is 'probably not healthy' about me posting about it beyond the obvious health risks that come from using the NS forum. Also, it's not necessarily Southern independence, which you would know if you had bothered to read the OP.

Cornwall has a nationalist movement.

Although fiscal autonomy seems favourable, the South of England (aside from Cornwall) is still English. How about granting Cornwall some fiscal autonomy?
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Herador
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Postby Herador » Sun May 15, 2022 10:14 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:It's 'Labour' in this country.

Yeah, sure, Labor or whatever. I promise I don't care about you being a needless pedant.

Also, it's undeniable that Margaret Thatcher and Thatcherism created the environment in which the Southern economy could flourish. The Conservatives today, however, have become little more than an elderly owner-occupier interests party. Under New Labour though they stood against the policies of high taxation and redistribution-into-a-black-hole they have now embraced.

That's a lot of words to say "Bro just trust me".
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Sun May 15, 2022 10:46 am

Arvenia wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:We're not discussing Northern independence. Also, I fail to see what is 'probably not healthy' about me posting about it beyond the obvious health risks that come from using the NS forum. Also, it's not necessarily Southern independence, which you would know if you had bothered to read the OP.

Cornwall has a nationalist movement.

Although fiscal autonomy seems favourable, the South of England (aside from Cornwall) is still English. How about granting Cornwall some fiscal autonomy?

Cornwall is at the moment entirely dependent on tourism with an ageing population. Young people either move away or (for the most part) get stuck in dead-end seasonal work. Also Cornwall's 'nationalist movement' uses a conlang. Maybe lithium will work out for them but until then fiscal autonomy would backfire badly.
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Arvenia
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Arvenia » Sun May 15, 2022 11:42 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Arvenia wrote:Cornwall has a nationalist movement.

Although fiscal autonomy seems favourable, the South of England (aside from Cornwall) is still English. How about granting Cornwall some fiscal autonomy?

Cornwall is at the moment entirely dependent on tourism with an ageing population. Young people either move away or (for the most part) get stuck in dead-end seasonal work. Also Cornwall's 'nationalist movement' uses a conlang. Maybe lithium will work out for them but until then fiscal autonomy would backfire badly.

Then which region would benefit from so-called "Southern independence"?
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Arisyan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Arisyan » Sun May 15, 2022 11:49 am

No, that's stupid. The only British separatism I support is a Pan-Celtic union, but even then I know that the best I'm probably gonna get is an independent Scotland and Wales. Splitting England in 2 will literally not solve any of its problems whatsoever. Politics is not always determined by where you live. Plus, there are a sizeable chunk of Labour voters in the South and a sizeable chunk of Tories in the North, they didn't even win a majority of the vote there in 2019.
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Sordhau
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sordhau » Sun May 15, 2022 11:50 am

I suppose you think you're clever for once again advocating for Northumbrian Independence by trying to disguise it as "Southern Independence". I'll give you props for creativity, Munk, but this whole obsession you have with balkanzing England along a north-south divide is still very bizarre.
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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sun May 15, 2022 11:51 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:You do, actually, because I'm not going to play the "source?? SOURCE???" game.


So in other words we have no reason to take your claims seriously because you have given us nothing to convince us they're not pulled straight out of your backside.
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Forsher
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Forsher » Sun May 15, 2022 12:01 pm

Kerwa wrote:The fiscal transfers from the south to the north are structural, not political. It’s part of maintaining an OCA.

Spending excess spending on London is likely corruption however.


OCA?

The real question is not southern independence but whether the rest of England needs independence from London.


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Westmonkwick
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Founded: Feb 10, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Westmonkwick » Sun May 15, 2022 12:02 pm

Arvenia wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:Cornwall is at the moment entirely dependent on tourism with an ageing population. Young people either move away or (for the most part) get stuck in dead-end seasonal work. Also Cornwall's 'nationalist movement' uses a conlang. Maybe lithium will work out for them but until then fiscal autonomy would backfire badly.

Then which region would benefit from so-called "Southern independence"?

The South West and Kent.
As well maybe Oxford?

Economically speaking at least the first two.
Last edited by Westmonkwick on Sun May 15, 2022 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Sun May 15, 2022 12:06 pm

Arvenia wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:Cornwall is at the moment entirely dependent on tourism with an ageing population. Young people either move away or (for the most part) get stuck in dead-end seasonal work. Also Cornwall's 'nationalist movement' uses a conlang. Maybe lithium will work out for them but until then fiscal autonomy would backfire badly.

Then which region would benefit from so-called "Southern independence"?

You were going on about autonomy for Cornwall. The whole South would benefit from money staying in the South instead of going to the North in a poorly-disguised attempt to keep converted pensioners voting Tory.

Sordhau wrote:I suppose you think you're clever for once again advocating for Northumbrian Independence by trying to disguise it as "Southern Independence". I'll give you props for creativity, Munk, but this whole obsession you have with balkanzing England along a north-south divide is still very bizarre.

As I say in the OP, what I'm sympathetic to is fiscal autonomy for the South - hardly an aim of the likes of the Northern Independence Party.
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"The amazing thing is that Tony Blair being shot in the head after running a barricade for inexplicable reasons is one of the most plausible episodes in this RP,
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Senkaku
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Sun May 15, 2022 12:08 pm

Wouldn’t this just be a very roundabout way of you getting northern independence
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Westmonkwick
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Ex-Nation

Postby Westmonkwick » Sun May 15, 2022 12:13 pm

Senkaku wrote:Wouldn’t this just be a very roundabout way of you getting northern independence

No, have you actually read his arguments?
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Sun May 15, 2022 12:14 pm

Senkaku wrote:Wouldn’t this just be a very roundabout way of you getting northern independence

Not really; the Midlands, Wales, and Scotland would still be there with the North if Southern independence happened. And between us I would prefer Northumbria north of the Tees to be governed by the South than by the rest of the North tbh.
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"The amazing thing is that Tony Blair being shot in the head after running a barricade for inexplicable reasons is one of the most plausible episodes in this RP,
which comes across as House of Cards by the writers of Mr. Bean."

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Westmonkwick
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Postby Westmonkwick » Sun May 15, 2022 12:29 pm

And between us I would prefer Northumbria north of the Tees to be governed by the South than by the rest of the North tbh.

Based!
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Herador
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Postby Herador » Sun May 15, 2022 12:32 pm

Westmonkwick wrote:
And between us I would prefer Northumbria north of the Tees to be governed by the South than by the rest of the North tbh.

Based!

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Last edited by Herador on Sun May 15, 2022 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sun May 15, 2022 12:35 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Wouldn’t this just be a very roundabout way of you getting northern independence

Not really; the Midlands, Wales, and Scotland would still be there with the North if Southern independence happened. And between us I would prefer Northumbria north of the Tees to be governed by the South than by the rest of the North tbh.

At this point why not just refound the Heptarchy dude?

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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Sun May 15, 2022 12:41 pm

Herador wrote:
Westmonkwick wrote:Based!

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

If you've got nothing nice (or true for that matter) to say, don't say it.
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"The amazing thing is that Tony Blair being shot in the head after running a barricade for inexplicable reasons is one of the most plausible episodes in this RP,
which comes across as House of Cards by the writers of Mr. Bean."

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Herador
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Postby Herador » Sun May 15, 2022 12:43 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Herador wrote:This would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

If you've got nothing nice (or true for that matter) to say, don't say it.

God I want to believe you forgot which account you are logged on and responded with the wrong one, that shit would be hilarious.

Screw it, I'm going with that, I need a giggle.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Sun May 15, 2022 12:46 pm

Herador wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:If you've got nothing nice (or true for that matter) to say, don't say it.

God I want to believe you forgot which account you are logged on and responded with the wrong one, that shit would be hilarious.

Screw it, I'm going with that, I need a giggle.

What a bizarre reply.
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"The amazing thing is that Tony Blair being shot in the head after running a barricade for inexplicable reasons is one of the most plausible episodes in this RP,
which comes across as House of Cards by the writers of Mr. Bean."

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Herador
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Postby Herador » Sun May 15, 2022 12:47 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Herador wrote:God I want to believe you forgot which account you are logged on and responded with the wrong one, that shit would be hilarious.

Screw it, I'm going with that, I need a giggle.

What a bizarre reply.

What's bizzare is that I'm still waiting for you to back up anything you've said.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Sun May 15, 2022 12:48 pm

Herador wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:What a bizarre reply.

What's bizzare is that I'm still waiting for you to back up anything you've said.

No, what you're doing is getting unpleasant and actually rather aggressive for no reason.
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Bede kinnie — Catgirl appreciator

"The amazing thing is that Tony Blair being shot in the head after running a barricade for inexplicable reasons is one of the most plausible episodes in this RP,
which comes across as House of Cards by the writers of Mr. Bean."

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Herador
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Postby Herador » Sun May 15, 2022 12:50 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Herador wrote:What's bizzare is that I'm still waiting for you to back up anything you've said.

No, what you're doing is getting unpleasant and actually rather aggressive for no reason.

So do you not have any proof or...?
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