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American Politics XII: We Can Do Bad All By Ourselves

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What Issues Are Most Important To You This Cycle?

The Economy(Non-Inflation Issues)
67
12%
Defence
34
6%
Civil/Human Rights
92
17%
Court Reform
33
6%
Healthcare
61
11%
Inflation
73
13%
Education
38
7%
The Environment
86
16%
Infrastructure
46
8%
Other(Let us Know!)
19
3%
 
Total votes : 549

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Tarsonis
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31131
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:37 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Point is the Senator wasn't calling for Brown to be overturned as Vass said he was.

I read it the same way you are, though there is a ton of case law between oldest and brown that slowly changed the precedent. That is not the case here


I'm not defending the Senator's point, I'm just saying he isn't saying the bad thing Vass is trying to make it sound like he's saying.
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Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Tarsonis
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Posts: 31131
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:39 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
I am a meat popsicle.


Ahh Terran Marine…..


Nah, I just normally set it to random.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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The United Penguin Commonwealth
Minister
 
Posts: 3478
Founded: Feb 01, 2022
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:43 am



maybe. or maybe he was just very excited about his corn ¯\_(o_o)_/¯
Last edited by The United Penguin Commonwealth on Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Jamesian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14573
Founded: Apr 28, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:49 am

Become an Independent. You’ll see how liberating it is.
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The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59123
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:55 am

The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
I wonder if that is an ad placement in that photo?


maybe. or maybe he was just very excited about his corn ¯\_(o_o)_/¯


Just seemed like odd swag. A ruler from Feeder Cattle real estate....
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San Lumen
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Posts: 87265
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:18 pm



well there is some uplifting news. Good for him. Had no idea he was a farmer.

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Shrillland
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22249
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Shrillland » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:11 pm

How America Came to This, by Kowani: Racialised Politics, Ideological Media Gaslighting, and What It All Means For The Future
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In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

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Myrensis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5898
Founded: Oct 05, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Myrensis » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:12 pm

San Lumen wrote:


well there is some uplifting news. Good for him. Had no idea he was a farmer.


Likely he just maintains it for the subsidies. Because per conservative doctrine, so long as you're a farmer you can take all the money from the goberment you want, and it definitely doesn't count as socialism or government handouts because something something farmer freedom Jesus American flag apple pie tractor eagle country music.

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Shrillland
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Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Shrillland » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:18 pm

Myrensis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
well there is some uplifting news. Good for him. Had no idea he was a farmer.


Likely he just maintains it for the subsidies. Because per conservative doctrine, so long as you're a farmer you can take all the money from the goberment you want, and it definitely doesn't count as socialism or government handouts because something something farmer freedom Jesus American flag apple pie tractor eagle country music.


It's the old family farm, father's father before him and all that. His Grandson and heir apparent, who's also State House Speaker in Iowa, is poised to get it after him.
How America Came to This, by Kowani: Racialised Politics, Ideological Media Gaslighting, and What It All Means For The Future
Plebiscite Plaza 2024
Confused by the names I use for House districts? Here's a primer!
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

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Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:21 pm

"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Myrensis
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Posts: 5898
Founded: Oct 05, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Myrensis » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:23 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:

I had a feeling that was next.


Nah, they've been pretty clear that gay rights and contraception are next on their "Things that shouldn't exist" agenda. Much as they'd like to bring back segregation it's a much harder pull and they all ready failed pretty spectacularly at it in the 60's.

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Forsher
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Posts: 22040
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Forsher » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:26 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So what is originalism then if not "we should interpret the consitution like it's 1789 rather than [CURRENT YEAR]"?


The problem with the "Current year" framing is that ultimately the constitution wouldn't mean anything, being always defined by whatever group happens to be in power and influential in the present. And for the record, the "current year" isn't always favorable to progressives like yourself.


Written constitutions are inherently tyrannical, so that's a good thing.
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Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:28 pm

Myrensis wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:I had a feeling that was next.


Nah, they've been pretty clear that gay rights and contraception are next on their "Things that shouldn't exist" agenda. Much as they'd like to bring back segregation it's a much harder pull and they all ready failed pretty spectacularly at it in the 60's.

They've been undermining integration of schools for a while now. At this point there functionally isn't much of Brown left so it'd be something they can knock off on their way to something else.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Diuhon
Diplomat
 
Posts: 756
Founded: Jan 05, 2022
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Diuhon » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:34 pm

Tarsonis wrote:



No, actually. He was bringing up another case that reversed decades old precedent, to point out that reversing precedent isn't inherently bad like the President is making it out to be.

I know you have a vested interest in having bad faith takes of anything the right does, but it does get old correcting your blatant misconstruings.

see, the gop has earned the assumption

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Senkaku
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Posts: 26709
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:36 pm

Myrensis wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:I had a feeling that was next.


Nah, they've been pretty clear that gay rights and contraception are next on their "Things that shouldn't exist" agenda. Much as they'd like to bring back segregation it's a much harder pull and they all ready failed pretty spectacularly at it in the 60's.

I mean if they take the other branches of government I’m pretty sure it’s all gonna be on the table lol; public education has been a white whale of the right for a long time
Last edited by Senkaku on Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Big Jim P
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Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Big Jim P » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:47 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Myrensis wrote:
Nah, they've been pretty clear that gay rights and contraception are next on their "Things that shouldn't exist" agenda. Much as they'd like to bring back segregation it's a much harder pull and they all ready failed pretty spectacularly at it in the 60's.

They've been undermining integration of schools for a while now. At this point there functionally isn't much of Brown left so it'd be something they can knock off on their way to something else.


Leftist blacks have been calling for resegregation. After all the work the real civil rights activists put in to end it. :(
Last edited by Big Jim P on Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Diuhon
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Posts: 756
Founded: Jan 05, 2022
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Diuhon » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:51 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:They've been undermining integration of schools for a while now. At this point there functionally isn't much of Brown left so it'd be something they can knock off on their way to something else.


Leftist blacks have been calling for resegregation. After all the work the real civil rights activists put in to end it. :(

and that's a problem, but next to bigots on the right egging them on for their own bigoted ends

well

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Senkaku
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Posts: 26709
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:52 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:They've been undermining integration of schools for a while now. At this point there functionally isn't much of Brown left so it'd be something they can knock off on their way to something else.


Leftist blacks have been calling for resegregation. After all the work the real civil rights activists put in to end it. :(

“Leftist blacks” are calling for that? Do you ever think about how you frame things at all
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The United Penguin Commonwealth
Minister
 
Posts: 3478
Founded: Feb 01, 2022
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:52 pm



I think his point was that precedent doesn't matter if precedent is bad, but it's worded poorly.
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Big Jim P
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Ex-Nation

Postby Big Jim P » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:53 pm

Diuhon wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Leftist blacks have been calling for resegregation. After all the work the real civil rights activists put in to end it. :(

and that's a problem, but next to bigots on the right egging them on for their own bigoted ends

well


Bigot begat bigots.
Hail Satan!
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I edit my posts to fix typos.

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Diuhon
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Founded: Jan 05, 2022
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Diuhon » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:57 pm

The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:


I think his point was that precedent doesn't matter if precedent is bad, but it's worded poorly.

his belief in states' rights has been a deeply held, if well-hidden, belief of his, articulated since at least his high school days, when he was an avid supporter of george wallace:

To be fair, blocking doors to prevent integration wasn’t on Cornyn’s list of reasons to vote for Wallace. But he was big on states’ rights. “With the Supreme Court’s recent rulings and increased federal legislation, the government has become increasingly dictatorial and oppressive while the state and local governments have become more weak,” he wrote. Here he is on law and order: “Mr. Wallace is convinced that no innocent man should be punished… [But] many criminals never receive the punishment due them because they have clever lawyers, or the case takes so long to go through the slow court schedules and lengthy appeals cases.” On the urban crisis: “The existence of poverty has been fact since the beginning of mankind. Statistics show us that it is not the poor element that riots and rebels, but others who hold complete disrespect for property and the rights of others (socialists?)” And, finally, on Vietnam: “It only seems reasonable that a cure (victory) for this Asian illness is most desirable even if the measures necessary are drastic.”

he's showing a bit of his hand now, because the logic this court has employed to overturn roe and casey can and will absolutely be used to overturn one gop bete noire after another
Last edited by Diuhon on Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Diuhon
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Founded: Jan 05, 2022
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Diuhon » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:58 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Diuhon wrote:and that's a problem, but next to bigots on the right egging them on for their own bigoted ends

well


Bigot begat bigots.

and it is only fair that they all be crushed

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Diopolis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17734
Founded: May 15, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Diopolis » Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:32 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Port Caverton wrote:Getting inflation under control and massive gas prices


And what can he actually do about those by himself?

Inflation is tricky but there's actually quite a bit that Biden could do to reduce gas prices, he's(or his admin is) just choosing to prioritize other goals. For example, the choice was made to sanction Russian oil knowing it would push gas prices up. The choice was made not to push hard for work from home, knowing it wouldn't help blunt gas price increases. There are reasons the Biden admin made both of these choices, but they are contributors to high prices and it's quite reasonable to have the opinion that lowering gas prices is a worthier goal than, say, sending a signal of how much we love Ukraine(because the oil sanctions don't seem to be hurting Russia) or trying to boost NYC property tax revenues.
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Big Jim P
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Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Big Jim P » Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:34 pm

Diuhon wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Bigot begat bigots.

and it is only fair that they all be crushed


Including the non-white ones?
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Diuhon
Diplomat
 
Posts: 756
Founded: Jan 05, 2022
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Diuhon » Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:36 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Diuhon wrote:and it is only fair that they all be crushed


Including the non-white ones?

of course

bigotry should not be tolerated, whatever and wherever its source

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