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American Politics XII: We Can Do Bad All By Ourselves

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What Issues Are Most Important To You This Cycle?

The Economy(Non-Inflation Issues)
67
12%
Defence
34
6%
Civil/Human Rights
92
17%
Court Reform
33
6%
Healthcare
61
11%
Inflation
73
13%
Education
38
7%
The Environment
86
16%
Infrastructure
46
8%
Other(Let us Know!)
19
3%
 
Total votes : 549

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24747
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu May 12, 2022 2:24 pm

Forsher wrote:
Senkaku wrote:When? In high school? Halfway through my degree? In the middle of COVID lockdowns?


It should also be noted getting a degree makes being allowed to stay in another country generally easier.

Yeah if I’m going to emigrate I’d really prefer not to spend the rest of my life breaking my back digging ditches in Michoacán or something lol
currently: being destroyed on the lathe of heaven

User avatar
American Legionaries
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5713
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Thu May 12, 2022 2:24 pm

San Lumen wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
This doesn't even make sense, can't I show the stupid pieces of metal to children?


Do you enjoy dodging with stupid nonsense as opposed to directly answering a question?


Can't answer a question based on a flawed premise.

User avatar
Adamede
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6909
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Thu May 12, 2022 2:25 pm

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
In theory, but not really in practice. While Obergefell guarantees my right to marry a man, it's not anything I'll ever do. I'm physically unable of terminating my own pregnancy, and again wouldn't if I could. Etc. etc.

It's worth noting that this is entirely reversible as well, which would lead us to the question of why Democrats don't vote for 2A absolutists, because they would extend the right to own tanks and missiles to them as well, wouldn't they?


I would.

You'd be the vast minority in either party in that regard.
22yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
The United Penguin Commonwealth
Minister
 
Posts: 2094
Founded: Feb 01, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Thu May 12, 2022 2:25 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Do you enjoy dodging with stupid nonsense as opposed to directly answering a question?


Can't answer a question based on a flawed premise.


what was flawed about the premise?

Alignment: LibLeft
Ideology: Libertarian Social Democracy
8values: results
LeftValues: results
Compass: results
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Heloin wrote:If your faith is hatred towards other people for being born a way then your faith isn’t worth a whole lot.

Kannap wrote:Gotta deny people are born gay because then you have to wrestle with the idea that if people are born gay then its by God's design and, if such, serves a God-given purpose and that doesn't mesh with God believing its a sin.

User avatar
Adamede
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6909
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Thu May 12, 2022 2:26 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Vassenor wrote:The Far-Right Is Doxxing Judges and Calling For Their Assassinations



But remember, the real threat is the people standing outside Kav's house trying to ask nicely to get him to keep abortion legal.


I fear it’s only a matter of time before we start seeing judges or elected officials get injured or assassinated.

TBH I was expecting more car bombings by now.
22yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
American Legionaries
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5713
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Thu May 12, 2022 2:27 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
If both sides result in environmental damage, how is my vote bad then?

Tell me, have you ever injured yourself?
And I mean, really, nastily injured yourself. Broken a bone, had a deep cut, etc.
What do you think would be better: having so much as basic first aid applied, or nothing? Perhaps even another injury on top of the first?


The message you're pushing is that one party results in notably superior outcomes for the environment. This isn't the case.

User avatar
San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 74072
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Thu May 12, 2022 2:27 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Do you enjoy dodging with stupid nonsense as opposed to directly answering a question?


Can't answer a question based on a flawed premise.


There is nothing flawed about it.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22767
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Thu May 12, 2022 2:27 pm

San Lumen wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
This doesn't even make sense, can't I show the stupid pieces of metal to children?


Do you enjoy dodging with stupid nonsense as opposed to directly answering a question?


Did you ever stop to think that maybe if you want people to take your concerns seriously, you should maybe consider taking their concerns seriously too?
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Adamede
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6909
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Thu May 12, 2022 2:28 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:Why?


Because my rights are more valuable than my enemies' rights. Presuming I even agree with what they're arguing is a right.

Then its not a right at all, its a privilege, and you wish to be among the privilieged class. Got a feeling you're not rich enough to be part of the modern aristocracy however.
22yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
The United Penguin Commonwealth
Minister
 
Posts: 2094
Founded: Feb 01, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Thu May 12, 2022 2:29 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:Tell me, have you ever injured yourself?
And I mean, really, nastily injured yourself. Broken a bone, had a deep cut, etc.
What do you think would be better: having so much as basic first aid applied, or nothing? Perhaps even another injury on top of the first?


The message you're pushing is that one party results in notably superior outcomes for the environment. This isn't the case.


one party pushes environmental regulations. the other pushes climate denial.

Alignment: LibLeft
Ideology: Libertarian Social Democracy
8values: results
LeftValues: results
Compass: results
SapplyValues: results
InfValues: results

Heloin wrote:If your faith is hatred towards other people for being born a way then your faith isn’t worth a whole lot.

Kannap wrote:Gotta deny people are born gay because then you have to wrestle with the idea that if people are born gay then its by God's design and, if such, serves a God-given purpose and that doesn't mesh with God believing its a sin.

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24747
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu May 12, 2022 2:31 pm

Adamede wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
I fear it’s only a matter of time before we start seeing judges or elected officials get injured or assassinated.

TBH I was expecting more car bombings by now.

We’ve already normalized rammings, but bombings are logistically and technically a lot harder and we have more security measures in place to help prevent them. People tend to kill with whatever’s handy if they can avoid having to do risky secret deals with obvious feds to buy detonators or whatever.

American Legionaries wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:Tell me, have you ever injured yourself?
And I mean, really, nastily injured yourself. Broken a bone, had a deep cut, etc.
What do you think would be better: having so much as basic first aid applied, or nothing? Perhaps even another injury on top of the first?


The message you're pushing is that one party results in notably superior outcomes for the environment. This isn't the case.

You live in a universe where Obama introduced the fucking Clean Power Plan and Trump immediately killed it lmfao; the Democrats may not be saints but at least their stated policy isn’t to give additional priority over renewables to the fossil fuel sector and to slash as many regulations as possible that stand in the way of extraction and waste dumping
currently: being destroyed on the lathe of heaven

User avatar
The United Penguin Commonwealth
Minister
 
Posts: 2094
Founded: Feb 01, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Thu May 12, 2022 2:32 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Do you enjoy dodging with stupid nonsense as opposed to directly answering a question?


Did you ever stop to think that maybe if you want people to take your concerns seriously, you should maybe consider taking their concerns seriously too?


the state of the Earth is everyone’s concern, at least those who will still be living on it.

Alignment: LibLeft
Ideology: Libertarian Social Democracy
8values: results
LeftValues: results
Compass: results
SapplyValues: results
InfValues: results

Heloin wrote:If your faith is hatred towards other people for being born a way then your faith isn’t worth a whole lot.

Kannap wrote:Gotta deny people are born gay because then you have to wrestle with the idea that if people are born gay then its by God's design and, if such, serves a God-given purpose and that doesn't mesh with God believing its a sin.

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24747
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu May 12, 2022 2:34 pm

The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
The message you're pushing is that one party results in notably superior outcomes for the environment. This isn't the case.


one party pushes environmental regulations. the other pushes climate denial.

One party expands oil and gas leases and lets a single senator block all meaningful climate action while greenwashing the shit out of the big banks’ dirty money; the other denies the fundamental physical principles that matter operates on, takes billions from the literal House of Saud, and actively cheers on excessively polluting activities for purely cultural reasons. I’ll still go with the former because at least they’re not a completely balls-to-the-wall insane suicide cult but let’s not give them too much credit please!
currently: being destroyed on the lathe of heaven

User avatar
Ngelmish
Minister
 
Posts: 3046
Founded: Dec 06, 2009
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ngelmish » Thu May 12, 2022 2:36 pm

The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Did you ever stop to think that maybe if you want people to take your concerns seriously, you should maybe consider taking their concerns seriously too?


the state of the Earth is everyone’s concern, at least those who will still be living on it.


I don't think the point is that climate policy is irrelevant to anyone in particular, it's that Lumen's "questions" are generally aggressively in a bad faith form. It's not a dialogue between equals if one person always ratchets up the hysteria or goes straight to reductio ad absurdum -- which Lumen does, unfortunately often.

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24747
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu May 12, 2022 2:37 pm

The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Did you ever stop to think that maybe if you want people to take your concerns seriously, you should maybe consider taking their concerns seriously too?


the state of the Earth is everyone’s concern, at least those who will still be living on it.

Is this just a grimly roundabout way of saying the state of the Earth is no one’s concern :p
currently: being destroyed on the lathe of heaven

User avatar
Adamede
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6909
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Thu May 12, 2022 2:37 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Adamede wrote:TBH I was expecting more car bombings by now.

We’ve already normalized rammings, but bombings are logistically and technically a lot harder and we have more security measures in place to help prevent them. People tend to kill with whatever’s handy if they can avoid having to do risky secret deals with obvious feds to buy detonators or whatever.

Eh doesn't have to be effective, it just needs to send a point, and gun powder isn't heavily regulated. Pipe bombs are simple enough.

And there's always shootings and stabbings.
22yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
The Jamesian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10680
Founded: Apr 28, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Thu May 12, 2022 2:38 pm

The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:
The Jamesian Republic wrote:
When did AL say they wanted to murder people?


Above Leader?


American Legionaries

User avatar
The United Penguin Commonwealth
Minister
 
Posts: 2094
Founded: Feb 01, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Thu May 12, 2022 2:39 pm

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:
Above Leader?


American Legionaries


sorry, I’ve been in F7 too much

Alignment: LibLeft
Ideology: Libertarian Social Democracy
8values: results
LeftValues: results
Compass: results
SapplyValues: results
InfValues: results

Heloin wrote:If your faith is hatred towards other people for being born a way then your faith isn’t worth a whole lot.

Kannap wrote:Gotta deny people are born gay because then you have to wrestle with the idea that if people are born gay then its by God's design and, if such, serves a God-given purpose and that doesn't mesh with God believing its a sin.

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24747
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu May 12, 2022 2:39 pm

Adamede wrote:Pipe bombs are simple enough.

Famous last words of a lot of fingerless maniacs lol
currently: being destroyed on the lathe of heaven

User avatar
The Jamesian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10680
Founded: Apr 28, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Thu May 12, 2022 2:41 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Forsher wrote:
It should also be noted getting a degree makes being allowed to stay in another country generally easier.

Yeah if I’m going to emigrate I’d really prefer not to spend the rest of my life breaking my back digging ditches in Michoacán or something lol


How do you plan to escape?

User avatar
Adamede
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6909
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Thu May 12, 2022 2:43 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Adamede wrote:Pipe bombs are simple enough.

Famous last words of a lot of fingerless maniacs lol

So the same demographic which would make pipe bombs for terrorist attacks?
Last edited by Adamede on Thu May 12, 2022 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
22yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
Forsher
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20420
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Thu May 12, 2022 2:43 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Forsher wrote:
It should also be noted getting a degree makes being allowed to stay in another country generally easier.

Yeah if I’m going to emigrate I’d really prefer not to spend the rest of my life breaking my back digging ditches in Michoacán or something lol


The counter argument is studying in another country is (a) often cheaper for Americans and (b) frequently seen as a backdoor to better immigrant visa classes.

Senkaku wrote:
Adamede wrote:TBH I was expecting more car bombings by now.

We’ve already normalized rammings, but bombings are logistically and technically a lot harder and we have more security measures in place to help prevent them. People tend to kill with whatever’s handy if they can avoid having to do risky secret deals with obvious feds to buy detonators or whatever.


There's a really dark suicide joke that runs something like...

when they switched from bottles of [popular overdose medication] to blister packs, suicides went down. Apparently the pain of being alive is less than popping twenty pills out of a blister pack.


Humans are lazy. Making doing something even marginally more difficult can save lives in all kinds of ways.

Unfortunately for the environment, the laziest option is almost always the worst one.
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

The normie life is heteronormie

We won't know until 2053 when it'll be really obvious what he should've done. [...] We have no option but to guess.

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24747
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu May 12, 2022 2:46 pm

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Yeah if I’m going to emigrate I’d really prefer not to spend the rest of my life breaking my back digging ditches in Michoacán or something lol


How do you plan to escape?

I would hardly call it an “escape” at this stage, even by 2024 it probably wouldn’t even rise close to the level of the Russians who took the bullet train to Helsinki once the war started and that wasn’t exactly a harrowing and uncomfortable voyage. It’ll be the same way most people do, just get a job somewhere that’ll get me a work visa; depending on how things go maybe I’ll come back or maybe I’ll try to naturalize or whatever. It’s gonna be a multi-year process, we’ll see if something convinces me to stay I guess but I’m not really seeing what it would be.
currently: being destroyed on the lathe of heaven

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24747
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Thu May 12, 2022 2:49 pm

Forsher wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Yeah if I’m going to emigrate I’d really prefer not to spend the rest of my life breaking my back digging ditches in Michoacán or something lol


The counter argument is studying in another country is (a) often cheaper for Americans and (b) frequently seen as a backdoor to better immigrant visa classes.

Ohh, you meant study for my degree in another country? Yeah it would’ve been cheaper and gotten me better visa options for sure, but unfortunately I did not have my shit together enough in high school to be looking at overseas schools and the idea of emigrating hadn’t occurred to me anyways.

Adamede wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Famous last words of a lot of fingerless maniacs lol

So the same demographic which would make pipe bombs for terrorist attacks?

The point, since I apparently have to write it out in excruciating detail, is that a lot of people who thought building pipe bombs to do terrorism stuff would be “simple enough” ended up blowing their own fingers off
currently: being destroyed on the lathe of heaven

User avatar
American Legionaries
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5713
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Thu May 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Adamede wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Famous last words of a lot of fingerless maniacs lol

So the same demographic which would make pipe bombs for terrorist attacks?


Pipe bombs really aren't that hard, but they're the tool of the desperate. Anyone who spends the time can cook up something a lot more impressive than gunpowder in a metal tube.

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