NATION

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American Politics XII: We Can Do Bad All By Ourselves

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What Issues Are Most Important To You This Cycle?

The Economy(Non-Inflation Issues)
67
12%
Defence
34
6%
Civil/Human Rights
92
17%
Court Reform
33
6%
Healthcare
61
11%
Inflation
73
13%
Education
38
7%
The Environment
86
16%
Infrastructure
46
8%
Other(Let us Know!)
19
3%
 
Total votes : 549

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59285
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:58 am

Port Caverton wrote:
Kannap wrote:Most Democrats Don’t Want Biden in 2024, New Poll Shows

Key Highlights:
  • 64% of Democrat voters say they would prefer a new candidate in the 2024 presidential primary.
  • 94% of Democrats under 30 said they would prefer a new presidential nominee in 2024.
  • Only 13% of American voters say the nation is on the right track; further only 27% of Democrat voters say the nation is on the right track.
  • 93% of working age (18-64) respondents said the state of the economy is poor/fair right now; only 6% rated it good or excellent.
  • Among Democrat voters, respondents cited a variety of reasons for wanting a new candidate in 2024: 33% due to Biden's age, 32% due to Biden's job performance, 12% prefer somebody new, 10% say Biden is not progressive enough, 4% doubt his ability to win in 2024, and 3% doubt his mental acuity.

President Biden is facing an alarming level of doubt from inside his own party, with 64 percent of Democratic voters saying they would prefer a new standard-bearer in the 2024 presidential campaign, according to a New York Times/Siena College poll, as voters nationwide have soured on his leadership, giving him a meager 33 percent job-approval rating.

Widespread concerns about the economy and inflation have helped turn the national mood decidedly dark, both on Mr. Biden and the trajectory of the nation. More than three-quarters of registered voters see the United States moving in the wrong direction, a pervasive sense of pessimism that spans every corner of the country, every age range and racial group, cities, suburbs and rural areas, as well as both political parties.

Only 13 percent of American voters said the nation was on the right track — the lowest point in Times polling since the depths of the financial crisis more than a decade ago.

For Mr. Biden, that bleak national outlook has pushed his job approval rating to a perilously low point. Republican opposition is predictably overwhelming, but more than two-thirds of independents also now disapprove of the president’s performance, and nearly half disapprove strongly. Among fellow Democrats his approval rating stands at 70 percent, a relatively low figure for a president, especially heading into the 2022 midterms when Mr. Biden needs to rally Democrats to the polls to maintain control of Congress.

In a sign of deep vulnerability and of unease among what is supposed to be his political base, only 26 percent of Democratic voters said the party should renominate him in 2024.

Mr. Biden has said repeatedly that he intends to run for re-election in 2024. At 79, he is already the oldest president in American history, and concerns about his age ranked at the top of the list for Democratic voters who want the party to find an alternative.

The backlash against Mr. Biden and desire to move in a new direction were particularly acute among younger voters. In the survey, 94 percent of Democrats under the age of 30 said they would prefer a different presidential nominee.

“I’m just going to come out and say it: I want younger blood,” said Nicole Farrier, a 38-year-old preschool teacher in East Tawas, a small town in northern Michigan. “I am so tired of all old people running our country. I don’t want someone knocking on death’s door.”

Ms. Farrier, a Democrat who voted for Mr. Biden in 2020, said she had hoped he might have been able to do more to heal the nation’s divisions, but now, as a single mother, she is preoccupied with what she described as crippling increases in her cost of living. “I went from living a comfortable lifestyle to I can’t afford anything anymore,” she said.

Jobs and the economy were the most important problem facing the country according to 20 percent of voters, with inflation and the cost of living (15 percent) close behind as prices are rising at the fastest rate in a generation. One in 10 voters named the state of American democracy and political division as the most pressing issue, about the same share who named gun policies, after several high-profile mass shootings.

More than 75 percent of voters in the poll said the economy was “extremely important” to them. And yet only 1 percent rated economic conditions as excellent. Among those who are typically working age — voters 18 to 64 years old — only 6 percent said the economy was good or excellent, while 93 percent rated it poor or only fair.

The White House has tried to trumpet strong job growth, including on Friday when Mr. Biden declared that he had overseen “the fastest and strongest jobs recovery in American history.” But the Times/Siena poll showed a vast disconnect between those boasts, and the strength of some economic indicators, and the financial reality that most Americans feel they are confronting.

“We used to spend $200 a week just going out to have fun, or going and buying extra groceries if we needed it, and now we can’t even do that,” said Kelly King, a former factory worker in Greensburg, Ind., who is currently sidelined because of a back injury. “We’re barely able to buy what we need.”

Ms. King, 38, said she didn’t know if Mr. Biden was necessarily to blame for the spiking prices of gas and groceries but felt he should be doing more to help. “I feel like he hasn’t really spoken much about it,” Ms. King said. “He hasn’t done what I think he’s capable of doing as president to help the American people. As a Democrat, I figured he would really be on our side and put us back on the right track. And I just feel like he’s not.”

Now, she said, she is hoping Republicans take over Congress in November to course-correct.

One glimmer of good news for Mr. Biden is that the survey showed him with a narrow edge in a hypothetical rematch in 2024 with former President Donald J. Trump: 44 percent to 41 percent.

The result is a reminder of one of Mr. Biden’s favorite aphorisms: “Don’t compare me to the Almighty, compare me to the alternative.” The poll showed that Democratic misgivings about Mr. Biden seemed to mostly melt away when presented with a choice between him and Mr. Trump: 92 percent of Democrats said they would stick with Mr. Biden.

Randain Wright, a 41-year-old truck driver in Ocean Township, N.J., is typical of these voters. He said he talked frequently with friends about Mr. Biden’s shortcomings. “He’s just not aggressive enough in getting his agenda done,” Mr. Wright lamented. In contrast, he said, “Trump wasn’t afraid to get his people in line.”

But while he would prefer a different nominee in 2024, Mr. Wright said he still wouldn’t consider voting Republican in 2024 if faced with a Biden-Trump rematch.

On the whole, voters appeared to like Mr. Biden more than they like his performance as president, with 39 percent saying they have a favorable impression of him — six percentage points higher than his job approval.

In saying they wanted a different nominee in 2024, Democrats cited a variety of reasons, with the most in an open-ended question citing his age (33 percent), followed closely by unhappiness with how he is doing the job. About one in eight Democrats just said that they wanted someone new, and one in 10 said he was not progressive enough. Smaller fractions expressed doubts about his ability to win and his mental acuity.

The Times/Siena survey of 849 registered voters nationwide was conducted from July 5 to 7, in the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s June 24 decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, eliminating the constitutional right to an abortion, which had been protected for half a century. The ruling sent Democrats into the streets and unleashed an outpouring of political contributions.

Typically, voters aligned with the party in power — Democrats now hold the House, the Senate and the White House — are more upbeat about the nation’s direction. But only 27 percent of Democrats saw the country as on the right track. And with the fall of Roe, there was a notable gender gap among Democrats: Only 20 percent of Democratic women said the country was moving in the right direction, compared with 39 percent of Democratic men.

Overall, abortion rated as the most important issue for 5 percent of voters: 1 percent of men, 9 percent of women.

Gun policies, following mass shootings in Buffalo, Uvalde, Tex., and elsewhere, and the Supreme Court’s June 23 ruling striking down a New York law that placed strict limits on carrying guns outside the home, were ranked as the top issue by 10 percent of voters — far higher than has been typical of nationwide polls in recent years. The issue was of even greater importance to Black and Hispanic voters, ranking roughly the same as inflation and the cost of living, the survey found.

The coronavirus pandemic, which so thoroughly disrupted life at the end of the Trump administration and over the first year of Mr. Biden’s presidency, has largely receded from voters’ minds, the survey found. In an open-ended question, fewer than one percent of voters named the virus as the nation’s most important problem.

When Mr. Biden won in 2020, he made a point of trying to make inroads among working-class white voters who had abandoned the Democratic Party in droves in the Trump era. But whatever crossover appeal Mr. Biden once had appears diminished. His job approval rating among white voters without college degrees was a stark 20 percent.

John Waldron, a 69-year-old registered Republican and retired machinist in Schenectady, N.Y., voted for Mr. Biden in 2020. Today, he said, he regrets it and plans to vote Republican in 2024. “I thought he was going to do something for this country, but now he’s doing nothing,” Mr. Waldron said.

Like others, he expressed worries about Mr. Biden’s age and verbal flubs. On Friday, a clip of Mr. Biden at an event announcing an executive order on abortion went viral when he stumbled into saying “terminate the presidency” instead of “pregnancy,” for instance.

“You ever see him on TV?” Mr. Waldron said, comparing the president to zombies. “That’s what he looks like.”

Mr. Biden’s base, in 2020 and now, remains Black voters. They delivered the president a 62 percent job-approval rating — higher marks than any other race or ethnicity, age group or education level. But even among that constituency, there are serious signs of weakening. On the question of renominating Mr. Biden in 2024, slightly more Black Democratic voters said they wanted a different candidate than said they preferred Mr. Biden.

“Anybody could be doing a better job than what they’re doing right now,” said Clifton Heard, a 44-year-old maintenance specialist in Foley, Ala.

An independent, he said he voted for Mr. Biden in 2020 but is disillusioned over the state of the economy and the spiraling price of gas, and is now reconsidering Mr. Trump.

“I understand that they’ve got a tough job,” he said of Mr. Biden’s administration. “He wasn’t prepared to do the job.”

The Times/Siena nationwide survey was conducted by telephone using live operators. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 4.1 percentage points. Cross-tabs and methodology are available here.

L president. Why did the Dems support him anyway?


Hmmm him or trump….hmmmm…..
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User avatar
Zurkerx
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 12402
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:58 am

Kannap wrote:Most Democrats Don’t Want Biden in 2024, New Poll Shows

Key Highlights:
  • 64% of Democrat voters say they would prefer a new candidate in the 2024 presidential primary.
  • 94% of Democrats under 30 said they would prefer a new presidential nominee in 2024.
  • Only 13% of American voters say the nation is on the right track; further only 27% of Democrat voters say the nation is on the right track.
  • 93% of working age (18-64) respondents said the state of the economy is poor/fair right now; only 6% rated it good or excellent.
  • Among Democrat voters, respondents cited a variety of reasons for wanting a new candidate in 2024: 33% due to Biden's age, 32% due to Biden's job performance, 12% prefer somebody new, 10% say Biden is not progressive enough, 4% doubt his ability to win in 2024, and 3% doubt his mental acuity.

President Biden is facing an alarming level of doubt from inside his own party, with 64 percent of Democratic voters saying they would prefer a new standard-bearer in the 2024 presidential campaign, according to a New York Times/Siena College poll, as voters nationwide have soured on his leadership, giving him a meager 33 percent job-approval rating.

Widespread concerns about the economy and inflation have helped turn the national mood decidedly dark, both on Mr. Biden and the trajectory of the nation. More than three-quarters of registered voters see the United States moving in the wrong direction, a pervasive sense of pessimism that spans every corner of the country, every age range and racial group, cities, suburbs and rural areas, as well as both political parties.

Only 13 percent of American voters said the nation was on the right track — the lowest point in Times polling since the depths of the financial crisis more than a decade ago.

For Mr. Biden, that bleak national outlook has pushed his job approval rating to a perilously low point. Republican opposition is predictably overwhelming, but more than two-thirds of independents also now disapprove of the president’s performance, and nearly half disapprove strongly. Among fellow Democrats his approval rating stands at 70 percent, a relatively low figure for a president, especially heading into the 2022 midterms when Mr. Biden needs to rally Democrats to the polls to maintain control of Congress.

In a sign of deep vulnerability and of unease among what is supposed to be his political base, only 26 percent of Democratic voters said the party should renominate him in 2024.

Mr. Biden has said repeatedly that he intends to run for re-election in 2024. At 79, he is already the oldest president in American history, and concerns about his age ranked at the top of the list for Democratic voters who want the party to find an alternative.

The backlash against Mr. Biden and desire to move in a new direction were particularly acute among younger voters. In the survey, 94 percent of Democrats under the age of 30 said they would prefer a different presidential nominee.

“I’m just going to come out and say it: I want younger blood,” said Nicole Farrier, a 38-year-old preschool teacher in East Tawas, a small town in northern Michigan. “I am so tired of all old people running our country. I don’t want someone knocking on death’s door.”

Ms. Farrier, a Democrat who voted for Mr. Biden in 2020, said she had hoped he might have been able to do more to heal the nation’s divisions, but now, as a single mother, she is preoccupied with what she described as crippling increases in her cost of living. “I went from living a comfortable lifestyle to I can’t afford anything anymore,” she said.

Jobs and the economy were the most important problem facing the country according to 20 percent of voters, with inflation and the cost of living (15 percent) close behind as prices are rising at the fastest rate in a generation. One in 10 voters named the state of American democracy and political division as the most pressing issue, about the same share who named gun policies, after several high-profile mass shootings.

More than 75 percent of voters in the poll said the economy was “extremely important” to them. And yet only 1 percent rated economic conditions as excellent. Among those who are typically working age — voters 18 to 64 years old — only 6 percent said the economy was good or excellent, while 93 percent rated it poor or only fair.

The White House has tried to trumpet strong job growth, including on Friday when Mr. Biden declared that he had overseen “the fastest and strongest jobs recovery in American history.” But the Times/Siena poll showed a vast disconnect between those boasts, and the strength of some economic indicators, and the financial reality that most Americans feel they are confronting.

“We used to spend $200 a week just going out to have fun, or going and buying extra groceries if we needed it, and now we can’t even do that,” said Kelly King, a former factory worker in Greensburg, Ind., who is currently sidelined because of a back injury. “We’re barely able to buy what we need.”

Ms. King, 38, said she didn’t know if Mr. Biden was necessarily to blame for the spiking prices of gas and groceries but felt he should be doing more to help. “I feel like he hasn’t really spoken much about it,” Ms. King said. “He hasn’t done what I think he’s capable of doing as president to help the American people. As a Democrat, I figured he would really be on our side and put us back on the right track. And I just feel like he’s not.”

Now, she said, she is hoping Republicans take over Congress in November to course-correct.

One glimmer of good news for Mr. Biden is that the survey showed him with a narrow edge in a hypothetical rematch in 2024 with former President Donald J. Trump: 44 percent to 41 percent.

The result is a reminder of one of Mr. Biden’s favorite aphorisms: “Don’t compare me to the Almighty, compare me to the alternative.” The poll showed that Democratic misgivings about Mr. Biden seemed to mostly melt away when presented with a choice between him and Mr. Trump: 92 percent of Democrats said they would stick with Mr. Biden.

Randain Wright, a 41-year-old truck driver in Ocean Township, N.J., is typical of these voters. He said he talked frequently with friends about Mr. Biden’s shortcomings. “He’s just not aggressive enough in getting his agenda done,” Mr. Wright lamented. In contrast, he said, “Trump wasn’t afraid to get his people in line.”

But while he would prefer a different nominee in 2024, Mr. Wright said he still wouldn’t consider voting Republican in 2024 if faced with a Biden-Trump rematch.

On the whole, voters appeared to like Mr. Biden more than they like his performance as president, with 39 percent saying they have a favorable impression of him — six percentage points higher than his job approval.

In saying they wanted a different nominee in 2024, Democrats cited a variety of reasons, with the most in an open-ended question citing his age (33 percent), followed closely by unhappiness with how he is doing the job. About one in eight Democrats just said that they wanted someone new, and one in 10 said he was not progressive enough. Smaller fractions expressed doubts about his ability to win and his mental acuity.

The Times/Siena survey of 849 registered voters nationwide was conducted from July 5 to 7, in the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s June 24 decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, eliminating the constitutional right to an abortion, which had been protected for half a century. The ruling sent Democrats into the streets and unleashed an outpouring of political contributions.

Typically, voters aligned with the party in power — Democrats now hold the House, the Senate and the White House — are more upbeat about the nation’s direction. But only 27 percent of Democrats saw the country as on the right track. And with the fall of Roe, there was a notable gender gap among Democrats: Only 20 percent of Democratic women said the country was moving in the right direction, compared with 39 percent of Democratic men.

Overall, abortion rated as the most important issue for 5 percent of voters: 1 percent of men, 9 percent of women.

Gun policies, following mass shootings in Buffalo, Uvalde, Tex., and elsewhere, and the Supreme Court’s June 23 ruling striking down a New York law that placed strict limits on carrying guns outside the home, were ranked as the top issue by 10 percent of voters — far higher than has been typical of nationwide polls in recent years. The issue was of even greater importance to Black and Hispanic voters, ranking roughly the same as inflation and the cost of living, the survey found.

The coronavirus pandemic, which so thoroughly disrupted life at the end of the Trump administration and over the first year of Mr. Biden’s presidency, has largely receded from voters’ minds, the survey found. In an open-ended question, fewer than one percent of voters named the virus as the nation’s most important problem.

When Mr. Biden won in 2020, he made a point of trying to make inroads among working-class white voters who had abandoned the Democratic Party in droves in the Trump era. But whatever crossover appeal Mr. Biden once had appears diminished. His job approval rating among white voters without college degrees was a stark 20 percent.

John Waldron, a 69-year-old registered Republican and retired machinist in Schenectady, N.Y., voted for Mr. Biden in 2020. Today, he said, he regrets it and plans to vote Republican in 2024. “I thought he was going to do something for this country, but now he’s doing nothing,” Mr. Waldron said.

Like others, he expressed worries about Mr. Biden’s age and verbal flubs. On Friday, a clip of Mr. Biden at an event announcing an executive order on abortion went viral when he stumbled into saying “terminate the presidency” instead of “pregnancy,” for instance.

“You ever see him on TV?” Mr. Waldron said, comparing the president to zombies. “That’s what he looks like.”

Mr. Biden’s base, in 2020 and now, remains Black voters. They delivered the president a 62 percent job-approval rating — higher marks than any other race or ethnicity, age group or education level. But even among that constituency, there are serious signs of weakening. On the question of renominating Mr. Biden in 2024, slightly more Black Democratic voters said they wanted a different candidate than said they preferred Mr. Biden.

“Anybody could be doing a better job than what they’re doing right now,” said Clifton Heard, a 44-year-old maintenance specialist in Foley, Ala.

An independent, he said he voted for Mr. Biden in 2020 but is disillusioned over the state of the economy and the spiraling price of gas, and is now reconsidering Mr. Trump.

“I understand that they’ve got a tough job,” he said of Mr. Biden’s administration. “He wasn’t prepared to do the job.”

The Times/Siena nationwide survey was conducted by telephone using live operators. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 4.1 percentage points. Cross-tabs and methodology are available here.


I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he did/didn't run but either way, whoever the nominee is in 2024, Democrats will have a challenge to win. The issues here are his job handling and age according to this poll. There doesn't seem to be a too big of a concern in regards of how Progressive someone is though it would be wise for the party to find a middle candidate between Biden and Sanders. Harris is not that candidate.
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User avatar
Antipatros
Minister
 
Posts: 2749
Founded: Aug 26, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Antipatros » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:00 am

San Lumen wrote:
Alternate Garza wrote:
I'm pleasantly surprised by that. You seemed to favor forcing a "lesser evil" choice on far left progressives like me so that we couldn't hold Democrats accountable for breaking campaign promises to us.


I support Ranked choice because no vote is wasted.

We might as well use the Schulze or Tideman method if we're going down this road. Simple IRV can have some nasty outcomes.

User avatar
The Jamesian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14636
Founded: Apr 28, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:11 am

Zurkerx wrote:
Kannap wrote:Most Democrats Don’t Want Biden in 2024, New Poll Shows

Key Highlights:
  • 64% of Democrat voters say they would prefer a new candidate in the 2024 presidential primary.
  • 94% of Democrats under 30 said they would prefer a new presidential nominee in 2024.
  • Only 13% of American voters say the nation is on the right track; further only 27% of Democrat voters say the nation is on the right track.
  • 93% of working age (18-64) respondents said the state of the economy is poor/fair right now; only 6% rated it good or excellent.
  • Among Democrat voters, respondents cited a variety of reasons for wanting a new candidate in 2024: 33% due to Biden's age, 32% due to Biden's job performance, 12% prefer somebody new, 10% say Biden is not progressive enough, 4% doubt his ability to win in 2024, and 3% doubt his mental acuity.

President Biden is facing an alarming level of doubt from inside his own party, with 64 percent of Democratic voters saying they would prefer a new standard-bearer in the 2024 presidential campaign, according to a New York Times/Siena College poll, as voters nationwide have soured on his leadership, giving him a meager 33 percent job-approval rating.

Widespread concerns about the economy and inflation have helped turn the national mood decidedly dark, both on Mr. Biden and the trajectory of the nation. More than three-quarters of registered voters see the United States moving in the wrong direction, a pervasive sense of pessimism that spans every corner of the country, every age range and racial group, cities, suburbs and rural areas, as well as both political parties.

Only 13 percent of American voters said the nation was on the right track — the lowest point in Times polling since the depths of the financial crisis more than a decade ago.

For Mr. Biden, that bleak national outlook has pushed his job approval rating to a perilously low point. Republican opposition is predictably overwhelming, but more than two-thirds of independents also now disapprove of the president’s performance, and nearly half disapprove strongly. Among fellow Democrats his approval rating stands at 70 percent, a relatively low figure for a president, especially heading into the 2022 midterms when Mr. Biden needs to rally Democrats to the polls to maintain control of Congress.

In a sign of deep vulnerability and of unease among what is supposed to be his political base, only 26 percent of Democratic voters said the party should renominate him in 2024.

Mr. Biden has said repeatedly that he intends to run for re-election in 2024. At 79, he is already the oldest president in American history, and concerns about his age ranked at the top of the list for Democratic voters who want the party to find an alternative.

The backlash against Mr. Biden and desire to move in a new direction were particularly acute among younger voters. In the survey, 94 percent of Democrats under the age of 30 said they would prefer a different presidential nominee.

“I’m just going to come out and say it: I want younger blood,” said Nicole Farrier, a 38-year-old preschool teacher in East Tawas, a small town in northern Michigan. “I am so tired of all old people running our country. I don’t want someone knocking on death’s door.”

Ms. Farrier, a Democrat who voted for Mr. Biden in 2020, said she had hoped he might have been able to do more to heal the nation’s divisions, but now, as a single mother, she is preoccupied with what she described as crippling increases in her cost of living. “I went from living a comfortable lifestyle to I can’t afford anything anymore,” she said.

Jobs and the economy were the most important problem facing the country according to 20 percent of voters, with inflation and the cost of living (15 percent) close behind as prices are rising at the fastest rate in a generation. One in 10 voters named the state of American democracy and political division as the most pressing issue, about the same share who named gun policies, after several high-profile mass shootings.

More than 75 percent of voters in the poll said the economy was “extremely important” to them. And yet only 1 percent rated economic conditions as excellent. Among those who are typically working age — voters 18 to 64 years old — only 6 percent said the economy was good or excellent, while 93 percent rated it poor or only fair.

The White House has tried to trumpet strong job growth, including on Friday when Mr. Biden declared that he had overseen “the fastest and strongest jobs recovery in American history.” But the Times/Siena poll showed a vast disconnect between those boasts, and the strength of some economic indicators, and the financial reality that most Americans feel they are confronting.

“We used to spend $200 a week just going out to have fun, or going and buying extra groceries if we needed it, and now we can’t even do that,” said Kelly King, a former factory worker in Greensburg, Ind., who is currently sidelined because of a back injury. “We’re barely able to buy what we need.”

Ms. King, 38, said she didn’t know if Mr. Biden was necessarily to blame for the spiking prices of gas and groceries but felt he should be doing more to help. “I feel like he hasn’t really spoken much about it,” Ms. King said. “He hasn’t done what I think he’s capable of doing as president to help the American people. As a Democrat, I figured he would really be on our side and put us back on the right track. And I just feel like he’s not.”

Now, she said, she is hoping Republicans take over Congress in November to course-correct.

One glimmer of good news for Mr. Biden is that the survey showed him with a narrow edge in a hypothetical rematch in 2024 with former President Donald J. Trump: 44 percent to 41 percent.

The result is a reminder of one of Mr. Biden’s favorite aphorisms: “Don’t compare me to the Almighty, compare me to the alternative.” The poll showed that Democratic misgivings about Mr. Biden seemed to mostly melt away when presented with a choice between him and Mr. Trump: 92 percent of Democrats said they would stick with Mr. Biden.

Randain Wright, a 41-year-old truck driver in Ocean Township, N.J., is typical of these voters. He said he talked frequently with friends about Mr. Biden’s shortcomings. “He’s just not aggressive enough in getting his agenda done,” Mr. Wright lamented. In contrast, he said, “Trump wasn’t afraid to get his people in line.”

But while he would prefer a different nominee in 2024, Mr. Wright said he still wouldn’t consider voting Republican in 2024 if faced with a Biden-Trump rematch.

On the whole, voters appeared to like Mr. Biden more than they like his performance as president, with 39 percent saying they have a favorable impression of him — six percentage points higher than his job approval.

In saying they wanted a different nominee in 2024, Democrats cited a variety of reasons, with the most in an open-ended question citing his age (33 percent), followed closely by unhappiness with how he is doing the job. About one in eight Democrats just said that they wanted someone new, and one in 10 said he was not progressive enough. Smaller fractions expressed doubts about his ability to win and his mental acuity.

The Times/Siena survey of 849 registered voters nationwide was conducted from July 5 to 7, in the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s June 24 decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, eliminating the constitutional right to an abortion, which had been protected for half a century. The ruling sent Democrats into the streets and unleashed an outpouring of political contributions.

Typically, voters aligned with the party in power — Democrats now hold the House, the Senate and the White House — are more upbeat about the nation’s direction. But only 27 percent of Democrats saw the country as on the right track. And with the fall of Roe, there was a notable gender gap among Democrats: Only 20 percent of Democratic women said the country was moving in the right direction, compared with 39 percent of Democratic men.

Overall, abortion rated as the most important issue for 5 percent of voters: 1 percent of men, 9 percent of women.

Gun policies, following mass shootings in Buffalo, Uvalde, Tex., and elsewhere, and the Supreme Court’s June 23 ruling striking down a New York law that placed strict limits on carrying guns outside the home, were ranked as the top issue by 10 percent of voters — far higher than has been typical of nationwide polls in recent years. The issue was of even greater importance to Black and Hispanic voters, ranking roughly the same as inflation and the cost of living, the survey found.

The coronavirus pandemic, which so thoroughly disrupted life at the end of the Trump administration and over the first year of Mr. Biden’s presidency, has largely receded from voters’ minds, the survey found. In an open-ended question, fewer than one percent of voters named the virus as the nation’s most important problem.

When Mr. Biden won in 2020, he made a point of trying to make inroads among working-class white voters who had abandoned the Democratic Party in droves in the Trump era. But whatever crossover appeal Mr. Biden once had appears diminished. His job approval rating among white voters without college degrees was a stark 20 percent.

John Waldron, a 69-year-old registered Republican and retired machinist in Schenectady, N.Y., voted for Mr. Biden in 2020. Today, he said, he regrets it and plans to vote Republican in 2024. “I thought he was going to do something for this country, but now he’s doing nothing,” Mr. Waldron said.

Like others, he expressed worries about Mr. Biden’s age and verbal flubs. On Friday, a clip of Mr. Biden at an event announcing an executive order on abortion went viral when he stumbled into saying “terminate the presidency” instead of “pregnancy,” for instance.

“You ever see him on TV?” Mr. Waldron said, comparing the president to zombies. “That’s what he looks like.”

Mr. Biden’s base, in 2020 and now, remains Black voters. They delivered the president a 62 percent job-approval rating — higher marks than any other race or ethnicity, age group or education level. But even among that constituency, there are serious signs of weakening. On the question of renominating Mr. Biden in 2024, slightly more Black Democratic voters said they wanted a different candidate than said they preferred Mr. Biden.

“Anybody could be doing a better job than what they’re doing right now,” said Clifton Heard, a 44-year-old maintenance specialist in Foley, Ala.

An independent, he said he voted for Mr. Biden in 2020 but is disillusioned over the state of the economy and the spiraling price of gas, and is now reconsidering Mr. Trump.

“I understand that they’ve got a tough job,” he said of Mr. Biden’s administration. “He wasn’t prepared to do the job.”

The Times/Siena nationwide survey was conducted by telephone using live operators. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 4.1 percentage points. Cross-tabs and methodology are available here.


I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he did/didn't run but either way, whoever the nominee is in 2024, Democrats will have a challenge to win. The issues here are his job handling and age according to this poll. There doesn't seem to be a too big of a concern in regards of how Progressive someone is though it would be wise for the party to find a middle candidate between Biden and Sanders. Harris is not that candidate.


I feel the same. Except I don’t think I can trust Republicans again maybe ever.
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Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:12 am

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:
I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he did/didn't run but either way, whoever the nominee is in 2024, Democrats will have a challenge to win. The issues here are his job handling and age according to this poll. There doesn't seem to be a too big of a concern in regards of how Progressive someone is though it would be wise for the party to find a middle candidate between Biden and Sanders. Harris is not that candidate.


I feel the same. Except I don’t think I can trust Republicans again maybe ever.


Well? Maybe a generation or two when all the trump followers are gone….
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:14 am

Port Caverton wrote:
Kannap wrote:Most Democrats Don’t Want Biden in 2024, New Poll Shows

Key Highlights:
  • 64% of Democrat voters say they would prefer a new candidate in the 2024 presidential primary.
  • 94% of Democrats under 30 said they would prefer a new presidential nominee in 2024.
  • Only 13% of American voters say the nation is on the right track; further only 27% of Democrat voters say the nation is on the right track.
  • 93% of working age (18-64) respondents said the state of the economy is poor/fair right now; only 6% rated it good or excellent.
  • Among Democrat voters, respondents cited a variety of reasons for wanting a new candidate in 2024: 33% due to Biden's age, 32% due to Biden's job performance, 12% prefer somebody new, 10% say Biden is not progressive enough, 4% doubt his ability to win in 2024, and 3% doubt his mental acuity.

President Biden is facing an alarming level of doubt from inside his own party, with 64 percent of Democratic voters saying they would prefer a new standard-bearer in the 2024 presidential campaign, according to a New York Times/Siena College poll, as voters nationwide have soured on his leadership, giving him a meager 33 percent job-approval rating.

Widespread concerns about the economy and inflation have helped turn the national mood decidedly dark, both on Mr. Biden and the trajectory of the nation. More than three-quarters of registered voters see the United States moving in the wrong direction, a pervasive sense of pessimism that spans every corner of the country, every age range and racial group, cities, suburbs and rural areas, as well as both political parties.

Only 13 percent of American voters said the nation was on the right track — the lowest point in Times polling since the depths of the financial crisis more than a decade ago.

For Mr. Biden, that bleak national outlook has pushed his job approval rating to a perilously low point. Republican opposition is predictably overwhelming, but more than two-thirds of independents also now disapprove of the president’s performance, and nearly half disapprove strongly. Among fellow Democrats his approval rating stands at 70 percent, a relatively low figure for a president, especially heading into the 2022 midterms when Mr. Biden needs to rally Democrats to the polls to maintain control of Congress.

In a sign of deep vulnerability and of unease among what is supposed to be his political base, only 26 percent of Democratic voters said the party should renominate him in 2024.

Mr. Biden has said repeatedly that he intends to run for re-election in 2024. At 79, he is already the oldest president in American history, and concerns about his age ranked at the top of the list for Democratic voters who want the party to find an alternative.

The backlash against Mr. Biden and desire to move in a new direction were particularly acute among younger voters. In the survey, 94 percent of Democrats under the age of 30 said they would prefer a different presidential nominee.

“I’m just going to come out and say it: I want younger blood,” said Nicole Farrier, a 38-year-old preschool teacher in East Tawas, a small town in northern Michigan. “I am so tired of all old people running our country. I don’t want someone knocking on death’s door.”

Ms. Farrier, a Democrat who voted for Mr. Biden in 2020, said she had hoped he might have been able to do more to heal the nation’s divisions, but now, as a single mother, she is preoccupied with what she described as crippling increases in her cost of living. “I went from living a comfortable lifestyle to I can’t afford anything anymore,” she said.

Jobs and the economy were the most important problem facing the country according to 20 percent of voters, with inflation and the cost of living (15 percent) close behind as prices are rising at the fastest rate in a generation. One in 10 voters named the state of American democracy and political division as the most pressing issue, about the same share who named gun policies, after several high-profile mass shootings.

More than 75 percent of voters in the poll said the economy was “extremely important” to them. And yet only 1 percent rated economic conditions as excellent. Among those who are typically working age — voters 18 to 64 years old — only 6 percent said the economy was good or excellent, while 93 percent rated it poor or only fair.

The White House has tried to trumpet strong job growth, including on Friday when Mr. Biden declared that he had overseen “the fastest and strongest jobs recovery in American history.” But the Times/Siena poll showed a vast disconnect between those boasts, and the strength of some economic indicators, and the financial reality that most Americans feel they are confronting.

“We used to spend $200 a week just going out to have fun, or going and buying extra groceries if we needed it, and now we can’t even do that,” said Kelly King, a former factory worker in Greensburg, Ind., who is currently sidelined because of a back injury. “We’re barely able to buy what we need.”

Ms. King, 38, said she didn’t know if Mr. Biden was necessarily to blame for the spiking prices of gas and groceries but felt he should be doing more to help. “I feel like he hasn’t really spoken much about it,” Ms. King said. “He hasn’t done what I think he’s capable of doing as president to help the American people. As a Democrat, I figured he would really be on our side and put us back on the right track. And I just feel like he’s not.”

Now, she said, she is hoping Republicans take over Congress in November to course-correct.

One glimmer of good news for Mr. Biden is that the survey showed him with a narrow edge in a hypothetical rematch in 2024 with former President Donald J. Trump: 44 percent to 41 percent.

The result is a reminder of one of Mr. Biden’s favorite aphorisms: “Don’t compare me to the Almighty, compare me to the alternative.” The poll showed that Democratic misgivings about Mr. Biden seemed to mostly melt away when presented with a choice between him and Mr. Trump: 92 percent of Democrats said they would stick with Mr. Biden.

Randain Wright, a 41-year-old truck driver in Ocean Township, N.J., is typical of these voters. He said he talked frequently with friends about Mr. Biden’s shortcomings. “He’s just not aggressive enough in getting his agenda done,” Mr. Wright lamented. In contrast, he said, “Trump wasn’t afraid to get his people in line.”

But while he would prefer a different nominee in 2024, Mr. Wright said he still wouldn’t consider voting Republican in 2024 if faced with a Biden-Trump rematch.

On the whole, voters appeared to like Mr. Biden more than they like his performance as president, with 39 percent saying they have a favorable impression of him — six percentage points higher than his job approval.

In saying they wanted a different nominee in 2024, Democrats cited a variety of reasons, with the most in an open-ended question citing his age (33 percent), followed closely by unhappiness with how he is doing the job. About one in eight Democrats just said that they wanted someone new, and one in 10 said he was not progressive enough. Smaller fractions expressed doubts about his ability to win and his mental acuity.

The Times/Siena survey of 849 registered voters nationwide was conducted from July 5 to 7, in the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s June 24 decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, eliminating the constitutional right to an abortion, which had been protected for half a century. The ruling sent Democrats into the streets and unleashed an outpouring of political contributions.

Typically, voters aligned with the party in power — Democrats now hold the House, the Senate and the White House — are more upbeat about the nation’s direction. But only 27 percent of Democrats saw the country as on the right track. And with the fall of Roe, there was a notable gender gap among Democrats: Only 20 percent of Democratic women said the country was moving in the right direction, compared with 39 percent of Democratic men.

Overall, abortion rated as the most important issue for 5 percent of voters: 1 percent of men, 9 percent of women.

Gun policies, following mass shootings in Buffalo, Uvalde, Tex., and elsewhere, and the Supreme Court’s June 23 ruling striking down a New York law that placed strict limits on carrying guns outside the home, were ranked as the top issue by 10 percent of voters — far higher than has been typical of nationwide polls in recent years. The issue was of even greater importance to Black and Hispanic voters, ranking roughly the same as inflation and the cost of living, the survey found.

The coronavirus pandemic, which so thoroughly disrupted life at the end of the Trump administration and over the first year of Mr. Biden’s presidency, has largely receded from voters’ minds, the survey found. In an open-ended question, fewer than one percent of voters named the virus as the nation’s most important problem.

When Mr. Biden won in 2020, he made a point of trying to make inroads among working-class white voters who had abandoned the Democratic Party in droves in the Trump era. But whatever crossover appeal Mr. Biden once had appears diminished. His job approval rating among white voters without college degrees was a stark 20 percent.

John Waldron, a 69-year-old registered Republican and retired machinist in Schenectady, N.Y., voted for Mr. Biden in 2020. Today, he said, he regrets it and plans to vote Republican in 2024. “I thought he was going to do something for this country, but now he’s doing nothing,” Mr. Waldron said.

Like others, he expressed worries about Mr. Biden’s age and verbal flubs. On Friday, a clip of Mr. Biden at an event announcing an executive order on abortion went viral when he stumbled into saying “terminate the presidency” instead of “pregnancy,” for instance.

“You ever see him on TV?” Mr. Waldron said, comparing the president to zombies. “That’s what he looks like.”

Mr. Biden’s base, in 2020 and now, remains Black voters. They delivered the president a 62 percent job-approval rating — higher marks than any other race or ethnicity, age group or education level. But even among that constituency, there are serious signs of weakening. On the question of renominating Mr. Biden in 2024, slightly more Black Democratic voters said they wanted a different candidate than said they preferred Mr. Biden.

“Anybody could be doing a better job than what they’re doing right now,” said Clifton Heard, a 44-year-old maintenance specialist in Foley, Ala.

An independent, he said he voted for Mr. Biden in 2020 but is disillusioned over the state of the economy and the spiraling price of gas, and is now reconsidering Mr. Trump.

“I understand that they’ve got a tough job,” he said of Mr. Biden’s administration. “He wasn’t prepared to do the job.”

The Times/Siena nationwide survey was conducted by telephone using live operators. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 4.1 percentage points. Cross-tabs and methodology are available here.

L president. Why did the Dems support him anyway?


As they repeatedly told you, when the choice is between Trump and an old boot with a bit of shit on it, you pick the old boot.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:14 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
The Jamesian Republic wrote:
I feel the same. Except I don’t think I can trust Republicans again maybe ever.


Well? Maybe a generation or two when all the trump followers are gone….


With all the reforms to education the next few generations will be worse.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:16 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Well? Maybe a generation or two when all the trump followers are gone….


With all the reforms to education the next few generations will be worse.


Even without that the next generations are screwed. As I have said; I think my daughter will have it worse then I did. My mother thought I would have it better then she did. I remember reading the current generation thinks their children will have it worse then they did…..
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:18 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
With all the reforms to education the next few generations will be worse.


Even without that the next generations are screwed. As I have said; I think my daughter will have it worse then I did. My mother thought I would have it better then she did. I remember reading the current generation thinks their children will have it worse then they did…..


And the scariest thing: some parents are *happy* about that. Because THEY had to suffer - so kids should not have it easier - and if it is harder for them it is their own damn fault and in no way, shape or form due to changes in society.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
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American Legionaries
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Postby American Legionaries » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:20 am

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:
I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he did/didn't run but either way, whoever the nominee is in 2024, Democrats will have a challenge to win. The issues here are his job handling and age according to this poll. There doesn't seem to be a too big of a concern in regards of how Progressive someone is though it would be wise for the party to find a middle candidate between Biden and Sanders. Harris is not that candidate.


I feel the same. Except I don’t think I can trust Republicans again maybe ever.


Trust isn't necessary to support a candidate. I certainly don't trust the Republicans.

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Postby Forsher » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:21 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Port Caverton wrote:L president. Why did the Dems support him anyway?


As they repeatedly told you, when the choice is between Trump and an old boot with a bit of shit on it, you pick the old boot.


I'm not going to lie to you, if you vote for me, you're going to eat mud. However, if you vote for them, you're going to eat their shit. And after you've eaten that shit, they'll make you eat your shit. With me? It's just mud. 100% certified, guaranteed mud. It's not great. It's mud. You don't want to eat it, I get it. But at least it's not shit.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:14 am

Antipatros wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
I support Ranked choice because no vote is wasted.

We might as well use the Schulze or Tideman method if we're going down this road. Simple IRV can have some nasty outcomes.

Could you explain?

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Sutalia
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Postby Sutalia » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:15 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Port Caverton wrote:L president. Why did the Dems support him anyway?


Hmmm him or trump….hmmmm…..

Democrats could have chosen someone better in the primary.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:19 am

Sutalia wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmm him or trump….hmmmm…..

Democrats could have chosen someone better in the primary.


WouldaShudaCoulda.

They probably went for the old war dog who could actually handle trump in debates. He did. Trump is a moron and entered the debates thinking the old playbook would work again. You have to admit Biden handled him well.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:27 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Sutalia wrote:Democrats could have chosen someone better in the primary.


WouldaShudaCoulda.

They probably went for the old war dog who could actually handle trump in debates. He did. Trump is a moron and entered the debates thinking the old playbook would work again. You have to admit Biden handled him well.


The debates were a circus, Biden won because Trump monumentally mishandled the second half of his presidency and the crises that arose, not because Biden trounced him in debate.
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Umeria
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Postby Umeria » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:28 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Sutalia wrote:Democrats could have chosen someone better in the primary.

WouldaShudaCoulda.

They probably went for the old war dog who could actually handle trump in debates. He did. Trump is a moron and entered the debates thinking the old playbook would work again. You have to admit Biden handled him well.

Yeah but I'm not sure how voters could have known that bc he did terribly in the primary debates
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Postby American Legionaries » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:30 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Sutalia wrote:Democrats could have chosen someone better in the primary.


WouldaShudaCoulda.

They probably went for the old war dog who could actually handle trump in debates. He did. Trump is a moron and entered the debates thinking the old playbook would work again. You have to admit Biden handled him well.


I feel like we watched different debates. Biden hardly seemed to be handling him, Trump just made an ass of himself on his own volition.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:34 am

American Legionaries wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
WouldaShudaCoulda.

They probably went for the old war dog who could actually handle trump in debates. He did. Trump is a moron and entered the debates thinking the old playbook would work again. You have to admit Biden handled him well.


I feel like we watched different debates. Biden hardly seemed to be handling him, Trump just made an ass of himself on his own volition.


If you remember; people tried to fight him in 2016. Biden…..let him make an ass of himself and he had strategic hits. Remember (not exact). “Did you just call me stupid”. Or whatever it was….Trump fumbled. He can handle comments like “you fucking pecker head”. He can’t handle things which imply he is dumb or not respecting his awesomeness.

Anyway. Point remains. People would have voted for an old boot with shit on it…….
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:35 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
WouldaShudaCoulda.

They probably went for the old war dog who could actually handle trump in debates. He did. Trump is a moron and entered the debates thinking the old playbook would work again. You have to admit Biden handled him well.


The debates were a circus, Biden won because Trump monumentally mishandled the second half of his presidency and the crises that arose, not because Biden trounced him in debate.


I didn’t say Biden trounced him…..just kept him off balance enough to look like a fumbler.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Senkaku
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:26 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The debates were a circus, Biden won because Trump monumentally mishandled the second half of his presidency and the crises that arose, not because Biden trounced him in debate.


I didn’t say Biden trounced him…..just kept him off balance enough to look like a fumbler.

How much effect do you think debates have on presidential elections as opposed to pandemics and economic crises
Biden-Santos Thought cadre

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North Jus Intius
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby North Jus Intius » Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:31 am

Salus Maior wrote:
North Jus Intius wrote:Well, that explains a lot.

And funnily enough your post really doesn't. If you have something to say, say it plainly.

It's just somehow I knew you were an anti-Semite before you admitted it yourself.
Last edited by North Jus Intius on Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Prima Scriptura
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Ex-Nation

Postby Prima Scriptura » Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:34 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Prima Scriptura wrote:
You know Jesus was circumcised…and they didn’t have the modern tools like they do today..


Circumcision is part of the old convenant. Still adhering to it means you are hedging your bets and do not truly believe in Jesus.

Heck, a few centuries ago the Catholics taught that circumcision made it harder to go to heaven. Which technically is still the official position though they are a lot less vocal about it to not alienate the Americans.



Well, I’m not circumcised, so… yeah
30 year old American male living in Minneapolis, MN.
Other than that, I’m not sure what I am.

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Salus Maior
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Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:38 am

North Jus Intius wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:And funnily enough your post really doesn't. If you have something to say, say it plainly.

It's just somehow I knew you were an anti-Semite before you admitted it yourself.


I am not, I simply oppose circumcision as something impressed upon children. Which goes beyond the Jewish religion, but into secular practice, and even in some cases Christian practice.

How would you describe circumcision any differently from how I described it? Keeping in mind that it is a permanent bodily modification that is both completely medically unnecessary and done without a child's consent.
Last edited by Salus Maior on Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:40 am

Sutalia wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmm him or trump….hmmmm…..

Democrats could have chosen someone better in the primary.


And this is why Democrats lose. Republicans vote no matter what.

Republicans fall in line Democrats fall in love.

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American Legionaries
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Posts: 12472
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:42 am

San Lumen wrote:
Sutalia wrote:Democrats could have chosen someone better in the primary.


And this is why Democrats lose. Republicans vote no matter what.

Republicans fall in line Democrats fall in love.


No matter how often you repeat this, it's simply untrue.

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