American Politics XII: We Can Do Bad All By Ourselves

[New haven america]

Which US city would be the best if we wanted to test what a car-ban would look like? Some European cities are testing it and are rolling it out in other areas as they find it succesful. Now in the US, most large metropolitan cities aren't open or suitable enough for a such a thing. So maybe a smaller city would be okay?

Our entire infrastructure is designed around vehicular accessibility. We would have to completely redesign all of our cities to make them less car-friendly in order to roll out a car ban anywhere.

No it's not.

Most of it is, but a lot of it's not.

[Diopolis]

They shouldn’t.

Please don't encourage him by playing along with conservative bothsame bullshit about how it's so unfair that Democrats can complain about things that actually happened, but then conservatives get mocked and persecuted for... making up batshit conspiracy theories on vaguely the same subject.

Stacey Abrams called Brian Kemp out for refusing to step down as Secretary of State during the gubernatorial election, a thing that actually happened, because of the clear conflict of interest in giving himself control of the election he was running in.

She also called him out for using his authority as Secretary of State to block the voting registrations of more than 50,000 Georgian voters, the overwhelming majority of whom were black, hispanic, or asian aka typically Democratic leaning demographics, another thing that actually happened.

And yes, Republicans are now using that to cry about how hypocritical and unfair it is that she could complain about...reality, but then they get made fun of and dismissed for trying to spread the truth about how Joe Biden conspired with Venezuelan lizard people to use Jewish space lasers to assassinate Trump voters so Democrats could steal the election.

Just a reminder that claims of voter suppression are discredited and claiming that someone else won the election because of it is as well founded as claiming that it's because of the ghost of Hugo Chavez.

[Diopolis]

Our entire infrastructure is designed around vehicular accessibility. We would have to completely redesign all of our cities to make them less car-friendly in order to roll out a car ban anywhere.

No it's not.

Most of it is, but a lot of it's not.

Banning cars* from certain downtown areas(I can think of a small number of them myself) would be a large improvement, but phasing out cars as central to the American way of life is, uh, not a short term project.
*noncommercial motor vehicles are what I mean here

[Neutraligon]

No it's not.

Most of it is, but a lot of it's not.

Banning cars* from certain downtown areas(I can think of a small number of them myself) would be a large improvement, but phasing out cars as central to the American way of life is, uh, not a short term project.
*noncommercial motor vehicles are what I mean here

Rather than banning, reworking the streets so that public transportation is far more viable seems like a better option.

[Senkaku]

reworking the streets so that public transportation is far more viable

What do you think banning cars is meant to achieve, if not this exact line?

No it's not.

Most of it is, but a lot of it's not.

Banning cars* from certain downtown areas(I can think of a small number of them myself) would be a large improvement, but phasing out cars as central to the American way of life is, uh, not a short term project.
*noncommercial motor vehicles are what I mean here

Oh yeah, politically it will take decades at least and maybe even a century or more. I think the discussion started as if a car ban were magically implemented overnight somewhere, where in the US is best equipped in terms of physical infrastructure right now for such a move to be physically viable for the population— politically, even congestion pricing is a massive struggle; car bans’ presence in mainstream discourse is pretty much exclusively in GOP attack ads. It’s still an interesting hypothetical, though.

[New haven america]

Oh yeah, it's the 4th.

Fuck SCOTUS and most of the Fascist GOP!

I legally have to say "most of" as per site rules.

[Neutraligon]

reworking the streets so that public transportation is far more viable

What do you think banning cars is meant to achieve, if not this exact line?

I think that there are ways other than banning cars that can do this.

[New haven america]

reworking the streets so that public transportation is far more viable

What do you think banning cars is meant to achieve, if not this exact line?

Banning cars* from certain downtown areas(I can think of a small number of them myself) would be a large improvement, but phasing out cars as central to the American way of life is, uh, not a short term project.
*noncommercial motor vehicles are what I mean here

Oh yeah, politically it will take decades at least and maybe even a century or more. I think the discussion started as if a car ban were magically implemented overnight somewhere, where in the US is best equipped in terms of physical infrastructure right now for such a move to be physically viable for the population— politically, even congestion pricing is a massive struggle; car bans’ presence in mainstream discourse is pretty much exclusively in GOP attack ads. It’s still an interesting hypothetical, though.

The Netherlands didn't ban cars.

[Senkaku]

What do you think banning cars is meant to achieve, if not this exact line?

I think that there are ways other than banning cars that can do this.

Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of stuff you can do before it ever gets to that point. I see the arguments for and against overtly talking about car bans, but I tend to see value in being symbolically confrontational when going up against a force as powerful and pervasive as the American auto lobby.

[Neutraligon]

I think that there are ways other than banning cars that can do this.

Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of stuff you can do before it ever gets to that point. I see the arguments for and against overtly talking about car bans, but I tend to see value in being symbolically confrontational when going up against a force as powerful and pervasive as the American auto lobby.

In this case, I actually think there is a great deal to making public transportation more efficient than cars in cities. Buses and on-level trains/trams/whatever should not be stuck in traffic, makes sense they should get their own lane, as an example. We also need serious adjustments to zoning laws so that we get the middle between massive urban high rises and single family housing.

[Senkaku]

Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of stuff you can do before it ever gets to that point. I see the arguments for and against overtly talking about car bans, but I tend to see value in being symbolically confrontational when going up against a force as powerful and pervasive as the American auto lobby.

In this case, I actually think there is a great deal to making public transportation more efficient than cars in cities. Buses and on-level trains/trams/whatever should not be stuck in traffic, makes sense they should get their own lane, as an example. We also need serious adjustments to zoning laws so that we get the middle between massive urban high rises and single family housing.

...yeah, I was agreeing with you, I just think aspiring to eventually be able to ban cars is nice and symbolically meaningful.

[Cannot think of a name]

What do you think banning cars is meant to achieve, if not this exact line?


Oh yeah, politically it will take decades at least and maybe even a century or more. I think the discussion started as if a car ban were magically implemented overnight somewhere, where in the US is best equipped in terms of physical infrastructure right now for such a move to be physically viable for the population— politically, even congestion pricing is a massive struggle; car bans’ presence in mainstream discourse is pretty much exclusively in GOP attack ads. It’s still an interesting hypothetical, though.

The Netherlands didn't ban cars.

Oh man, I only spent 10 hours in Amsterdam (doing exactly what you expect) but man alive is their public transportation and layout is amazing. First of all, I found out about the scooter/bike lane by almost getting plowed by them, but once I knew I realized it worked great.

Then there's the tram thing. I don't speak the language, didn't really know where I was, I was high as fuck. I walked out on the sidewalk, saw the tracks, there was a stop nearby, figured the little plane graphic is where I wanted to go. Sat there for a negligible amount of time (mostly trying to figure out what labyrinthine method for getting a ticket they had since I'm an American and that is my experience) when the tram pulls up, the doors open and there a dude in a booth in the streetcar. Walked up to dude and feebly said "Airport?" He said something in Dutch and nodded and indicated the fare. Rode to the airport and back on my connecting flight trouble free. Made me regret taking a taxi into the city when the train was so easy. The whole experience was awesome except for the weird dish that turned out to be a slice of white bread, slice of bologna, and some gravy. I assume this is what they give Americans who didn't bother to learn anything about the Netherlands outside 'weed is legal in Amsterdam'.

I could have stayed there forever...if I spoke Dutch. I mean, Amsterdam still had cars milling about but it seemed like most people were making use of the alternatives because they were convenient and easy.

[Forsher]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox

[The Alma Mater]

Then there's the tram thing. I don't speak the language, didn't really know where I was, I was high as fuck. I walked out on the sidewalk, saw the tracks, there was a stop nearby, figured the little plane graphic is where I wanted to go. Sat there for a negligible amount of time (mostly trying to figure out what labyrinthine method for getting a ticket they had since I'm an American and that is my experience) when the tram pulls up, the doors open and there a dude in a booth in the streetcar. Walked up to dude and feebly said "Airport?" He said something in Dutch and nodded and indicated the fare. Rode to the airport and back on my connecting flight trouble free.

I fear you were higher than you think - there is no tram to Schiphol and never has been...
Trains, yes. But those do not have boots inside.

[Kanadorika]

What do you think banning cars is meant to achieve, if not this exact line?

I think that there are ways other than banning cars that can do this.

Perhaps we can start by making the streets less hostile by figuring out what to do with the schizos and meth addicts harassing people on the sidewalk?

It's a major problem in downtown LA and a lot of people don't walk just because they don't feel safe on the street.

[Celritannia]

This is untrue. The first time a Democrat won the black vote was FDR in 1936. By then the Democrats in the north had begun to discuss civil rights but it was not part of the platform until 1948.

No, it's true, and you're unknowingly saying so yourself. 1936 was before the party switch.

The party switch was not instantaneous, it was a gradual process over decades.

[Cannot think of a name]

Then there's the tram thing. I don't speak the language, didn't really know where I was, I was high as fuck. I walked out on the sidewalk, saw the tracks, there was a stop nearby, figured the little plane graphic is where I wanted to go. Sat there for a negligible amount of time (mostly trying to figure out what labyrinthine method for getting a ticket they had since I'm an American and that is my experience) when the tram pulls up, the doors open and there a dude in a booth in the streetcar. Walked up to dude and feebly said "Airport?" He said something in Dutch and nodded and indicated the fare. Rode to the airport and back on my connecting flight trouble free.

I fear you were higher than you think - there is no tram to Schiphol and never has been...
Trains, yes. But those do not have boots inside.

I use trams, trains, street cars interchangably because...well, I don't care.

But I guarantee you I got on a thing that was on rails and there absolutely was a booth inside and it very much did deliver me to the airport. So. Dunno.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

Which US city would be the best if we wanted to test what a car-ban would look like? Some European cities are testing it and are rolling it out in other areas as they find it succesful. Now in the US, most large metropolitan cities aren't open or suitable enough for a such a thing. So maybe a smaller city would be okay?

Somewhere in Hawaii.

[Vassenor]

Please don't encourage him by playing along with conservative bothsame bullshit about how it's so unfair that Democrats can complain about things that actually happened, but then conservatives get mocked and persecuted for... making up batshit conspiracy theories on vaguely the same subject.

Stacey Abrams called Brian Kemp out for refusing to step down as Secretary of State during the gubernatorial election, a thing that actually happened, because of the clear conflict of interest in giving himself control of the election he was running in.

She also called him out for using his authority as Secretary of State to block the voting registrations of more than 50,000 Georgian voters, the overwhelming majority of whom were black, hispanic, or asian aka typically Democratic leaning demographics, another thing that actually happened.

And yes, Republicans are now using that to cry about how hypocritical and unfair it is that she could complain about...reality, but then they get made fun of and dismissed for trying to spread the truth about how Joe Biden conspired with Venezuelan lizard people to use Jewish space lasers to assassinate Trump voters so Democrats could steal the election.

Just a reminder that claims of voter suppression are discredited and claiming that someone else won the election because of it is as well founded as claiming that it's because of the ghost of Hugo Chavez.

When were the claims discredited?

Because the voter blocking thing is a recorded fact.

[Meretica]

I'd like all self-proclaimed liberals to listen to this song. Well, everyone else, too. But the liberals specifically.

This song is called "Love Me, I'm a Liberal." It's sung by Phil Ochs, a musician active between 1962 and 1976. He largely focused on protest music. This song is one of his best works and really puts into perspective why liberals have, since the LBJ era, been looked upon rather poorly. (This, of course, excludes the likes of Ted Kennedy and the Progressive Old Guard as they were true leftists, whereas Hubert Humphrey, LBJ, and their followers were mere liberals). Jello Biafra has a modernized version of the song specific to the late 1980s and/or the early 1990s.

This, I think, is very relevant to today's political landscape. Why? Liberals look like one thing, mean another, and act differently. That's why the Senate, House, and Presidency are currently meaningless without concrete action. it's why people like me advocate for Sanders, Warren, and AOC instead of "liberals."

Thoughts?

[Senkaku]

I think that there are ways other than banning cars that can do this.

Perhaps we can start by making the streets less hostile by figuring out what to do with the schizos and meth addicts harassing people on the sidewalk?

It's a major problem in downtown LA and a lot of people don't walk just because they don't feel safe on the street.

Not that directly related to discussions of transit and car culture, but sure, throw a couple hundred billion dollars at rehabs and behavioral health centers. Or by “figure out what to do with” did you mean like, death squads

[Cannot think of a name]

Which US city would be the best if we wanted to test what a car-ban would look like? Some European cities are testing it and are rolling it out in other areas as they find it succesful. Now in the US, most large metropolitan cities aren't open or suitable enough for a such a thing. So maybe a smaller city would be okay?

Somewhere in Hawaii.

Speaking of islands, Catalina is already there, really. The waiting list to get approved to have a car brought there is like 20 years last time I checked. Most residents don't have a car on the island.

But then, it's an island. And a small ass island at that. A small ass island for middle class people to pretend they're rich on.

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

I suspect the number of people who can afford cars is going to decline rapidly anyway, replaced by people on electric scooters.

[Senkaku]

Which US city would be the best if we wanted to test what a car-ban would look like? Some European cities are testing it and are rolling it out in other areas as they find it succesful. Now in the US, most large metropolitan cities aren't open or suitable enough for a such a thing. So maybe a smaller city would be okay?

Somewhere in Hawaii.

Hawaii is actually appallingly dependent on cars, testing a car ban would absolutely paralyze any of the islands (if you’ve ever driven in Honolulu you will understand lol, plus they can barely manage to build one light rail line)

[Neon Lunar Eclipse]

For the First Time, US Is Sending More Gas to Europe Than Russia

Thank you, USA. We appreciate it Less reliant we are on Putin's Russia, the better.