American Politics XII: We Can Do Bad All By Ourselves

[Forsher]

I don't think the point is that climate policy is irrelevant to anyone in particular, it's that Lumen's "questions" are generally aggressively in a bad faith form. It's not a dialogue between equals if one person always ratchets up the hysteria or goes straight to reductio ad absurdum -- which Lumen does, unfortunately often.

This isn't the criticism you think it is... proof by contradiction is very, very powerful.

Also, it's only bad faith if San Lumen doesn't answer other peoples' questions.

I think of that SCOTUS justice one from the other day. Why make a song and fucking dance about it? There's no need to jump to the paranoid hysteria of deciding there's no dialogue between equals when getting someone to consider the hypothetical question of "what would you do, if you were in their shoes?" It's maybe a little patronising... this is literally a go to parenting strategy intended to get children to be less like greedy self absorbed pricks... but it's harmless. You're not being asked to accept a premise you've been disagreeing with or anything like that.

There's a phrase for what you're doing: shamed, who thinks evil of it.

[Senkaku]

So the same demographic which would make pipe bombs for terrorist attacks?

Pipe bombs really aren't that hard, but they're the tool of the desperate. Anyone who spends the time can cook up something a lot more impressive than gunpowder in a metal tube.

See it’s posts like this, after 2024, that will ensure even if the GOP does start letting us all buy tanks, they might not let you specifically

[American Legionaries]

Pipe bombs really aren't that hard, but they're the tool of the desperate. Anyone who spends the time can cook up something a lot more impressive than gunpowder in a metal tube.

See it’s posts like this, after 2024, that will ensure even if the GOP does start letting us all buy tanks, they might not let you specifically

Two more years of blowing up various parts of this state and they might not be able to stop me...

[San Lumen]

See it’s posts like this, after 2024, that will ensure even if the GOP does start letting us all buy tanks, they might not let you specifically

Two more years of blowing up various parts of this state and they might not be able to stop me...

What are you suggesting? If its what think im not surprised considering you once advocated for vandalism and destruction of infrastructure of metro areas of your state.

[Forsher]

The counter argument is studying in another country is (a) often cheaper for Americans and (b) frequently seen as a backdoor to better immigrant visa classes.

Ohh, you meant study for my degree in another country?

Actually no; this is a new point disagreeing with my old one.

Yeah it would’ve been cheaper and gotten me better visa options for sure, but unfortunately I did not have my shit together enough in high school to be looking at overseas schools and the idea of emigrating hadn’t occurred to me anyways.

Is this not always the way? You think of what you should've done only after the flaws in the path you did take reveal themselves.

As a very literal pathing example... I'm averse to doubling back on myself but I thought "I'll just do a loop up a bit". Then I came across a fork and thought "Ah, a shortcut", when if I'd stopped to think about it a bit harder I would've realised it was a dead end. I ended up running out of water, even though I'd left very early in the morning, but luckily this was an urban walk so I just bought some more. But it still added an extra forty minutes or whatever for no real reason.

Ironically I also ignored a second fork which really was a shortcut.

[Tarsonis]

Did you ever stop to think that maybe if you want people to take your concerns seriously, you should maybe consider taking their concerns seriously too?

the state of the Earth is everyone’s concern, at least those who will still be living on it.

that is your opinion, and regardless it wasn't the point. If you're trying to get people to care about the things you care about, ridiculing them for the things they care about is going to have the exact opposite effect.

[Prima Scriptura]

Unless someone that considers themselves a paternalistic conservative, I sympathize with the problems that people in rural areas face. I want to help them along with people experiencing the same issues in urban areas. There’s gonna have to be some class collaboration and we need to drop the “us vs them”

Also, there has to be a limit on the populism that many rural folk embrace. It’s going to come to a point where anybody that has more than a high school diploma, this includes associates and trade schools is part of the “elite”.

The "Elites" are, at least in my experience, categorized less my education level, and more by manner and expertise. Of every person who lives in a mile radius of me, I'm the only adult who isn't a college graduate. And yet these people are almost of one voice in lambasting the "elites".

Let me put it this way. Is the RN with student loans that worked her ass off taking care of patients during the pandemic part of the “elite”? How about that one great teacher with student loans, is she also part of the elite. In my honest opinion, the Republicans are taking populism so far that the elite are a larger group of people by number then the “regular folk“.

[Ngelmish]

I don't think the point is that climate policy is irrelevant to anyone in particular, it's that Lumen's "questions" are generally aggressively in a bad faith form. It's not a dialogue between equals if one person always ratchets up the hysteria or goes straight to reductio ad absurdum -- which Lumen does, unfortunately often.

This isn't the criticism you think it is... proof by contradiction is very, very powerful.

Also, it's only bad faith if San Lumen doesn't answer other peoples' questions.

I think of that SCOTUS justice one from the other day. Why make a song and fucking dance about it? There's no need to jump to the paranoid hysteria of deciding there's no dialogue between equals when getting someone to consider the hypothetical question of "what would you do, if you were in their shoes?" It's maybe a little patronising... this is literally a go to parenting strategy intended to get children to be less like greedy self absorbed pricks... but it's harmless. You're not being asked to accept a premise you've been disagreeing with or anything like that.

There's a phrase for what you're doing: shamed, who thinks evil of it.

Sure, but my overall point was that Lumen only periodically addresses the substance of points actually made; generally he prefers to go to a stretched "if I take your stated premise to an extreme, isn't it then terrible?" I can agree that that is not necessarily bad faith in each and every case, but Lumen also only periodically answers people's questions, and the ones he most ignores are ones that purport to to expose a contradiction in his stated premises, it's not precisely the most rewarding, or enlightening, type of exchange.

[San Lumen]

the state of the Earth is everyone’s concern, at least those who will still be living on it.

that is your opinion, and regardless it wasn't the point. If you're trying to get people to care about the things you care about, ridiculing them for the things they care about is going to have the exact opposite effect.

How is that an opinion?

[Tarsonis]

that is your opinion, and regardless it wasn't the point. If you're trying to get people to care about the things you care about, ridiculing them for the things they care about is going to have the exact opposite effect.

How is that an opinion?

In so much as it is the expressed view of a poster(s) and not a statement of fact. You know, an opinion.

[Prima Scriptura]

the state of the Earth is everyone’s concern, at least those who will still be living on it.

that is your opinion, and regardless it wasn't the point. If you're trying to get people to care about the things you care about, ridiculing them for the things they care about is going to have the exact opposite effect.

Leftists seem to have difficulty in this.

[The Jamesian Republic]

the state of the Earth is everyone’s concern, at least those who will still be living on it.

that is your opinion, and regardless it wasn't the point. If you're trying to get people to care about the things you care about, ridiculing them for the things they care about is going to have the exact opposite effect.

Exactly.

[American Legionaries]

that is your opinion, and regardless it wasn't the point. If you're trying to get people to care about the things you care about, ridiculing them for the things they care about is going to have the exact opposite effect.

Leftists seem to have difficulty in this.

A lot of them seem to be cultural hegemonists.

[Umeria]

that is your opinion, and regardless it wasn't the point. If you're trying to get people to care about the things you care about, ridiculing them for the things they care about is going to have the exact opposite effect.

Leftists seem to have difficulty in this.

In my experience moderates have much more scorn and ridicule than leftists towards people who disagree with them.

[American Legionaries]

Leftists seem to have difficulty in this.

In my experience moderates have much more scorn and ridicule than leftists towards people who disagree with them.

Moderates are definitely famous for creating secret police forces to imprison or kill people who have anti-moderation beliefs.

[Ulajhan]

that is your opinion, and regardless it wasn't the point. If you're trying to get people to care about the things you care about, ridiculing them for the things they care about is going to have the exact opposite effect.

Eh, even if we treated them with the respect they deserved it would still sound like ridicule because that's what happens when you're wrong.

It's the same deal with the opinions of people like GMS or Lumen. We can provide all kinds of statistics and evidence that no Trump isn't Jesus, and explain the meaning of pandemic and epidemic.

But we'll still be hearing the next day about how we never say anything nice about Trump or COVID isn't really killing all that many people.

[Prima Scriptura]

Leftists seem to have difficulty in this.

A lot of them seem to be cultural hegemonists.

It’s ironic because the same folk claim to support cultural diversity.

[American Legionaries]

A lot of them seem to be cultural hegemonists.

It’s ironic because the same folk claim to support cultural diversity.

You can't hold what are functionally advertisement slogans to that standard of truthfulness.

[Tarsonis]

Leftists seem to have difficulty in this.

A lot of them seem to be cultural hegemonists.

well that knife cuts both ways

[Prima Scriptura]

A lot of them seem to be cultural hegemonists.

well that knife cuts both ways

I could agree, but i think the modern left considers civil nationalism or “the melting pot” standard is “racist/etc.

[Ulajhan]

I can survive the so-called Leftist two-faced nature in America, but I'm strictly certain I won't live in the Right's imagined golden age.

[The Jamesian Republic]

well that knife cuts both ways

I could agree, but i think the modern left considers civil nationalism or “the melting pot” standard is “racist/etc.

I consider myself a civic nationalist.

[Umeria]

In my experience moderates have much more scorn and ridicule than leftists towards people who disagree with them.

Moderates are definitely famous for creating secret police forces to imprison or kill people who have anti-moderation beliefs.

Okay I agree that dictators are bad. But this is the American politics thread and the closest thing this country has to a secret police are the CIA and FBI, are those run by leftists?

[San Lumen]

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local ... elections/

Florida Secretary of State to resign. Governor DeSantis will appoint replacement.

[Tarsonis]

that is your opinion, and regardless it wasn't the point. If you're trying to get people to care about the things you care about, ridiculing them for the things they care about is going to have the exact opposite effect.

Eh, even if we treated them with the respect they deserved it would still sound like ridicule because that's what happens when you're wrong.

It's the same deal with the opinions of people like GMS or Lumen. We can provide all kinds of statistics and evidence that no Trump isn't Jesus, and explain the meaning of pandemic and epidemic.

But we'll still be hearing the next day about how we never say anything nice about Trump or COVID isn't really killing all that many people.

Okay but you're talking about verifiable facts like "Dems stole the election" that's verifiable false. This is different from "You prioritization of gun rights is dumb." That's an opinion. See the difference?