Swedish Riots

[Harjanika]

Good point, but I have a question that's a bit off topic:
Y'all have to pay to go to school?

What? No?

Thank goodness. I heard that some people have to pay to go to school

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

What? No?

Thank goodness. I heard that some people have to pay to go to school

If you come over here as a foreign uni student and want to take a course you have to pay a fee. But otherwise no.

[The Alma Mater]

"Poverty" is relative though. Is one poor if one can afford things like food, housing and education - but cannot afford the expensive clothes and fast cars your subculture uses to determine your worth?

Good point, but I have a question that's a bit off topic:
Y'all have to pay to go to school?

Higher education? Yes.
Not as much as in the USA though.

[Harjanika]

Good point, but I have a question that's a bit off topic:
Y'all have to pay to go to school?

Higher education? Yes.
Not as much as in the USA though.

We pay for uni in England, but not in Scotland (not sure about the other nations)

[Fahran]

This wouldn't work because that isn't the issue.
The issue... as always... is poverty. Poverty, lack of opportunity, and societal exclusion makes people turn almost inevitably to crime, extremism and criminal gangs, latter of which are the guys responsible for rioting last week. Solving poverty would probs involve introducing to Sweden some system where taxes are skyhigh to fund a well-functioning social assistance system that helps people instead of excluding the lot. This is something nobody politically important enough is interested in. Because they are all drunk on Thatcherism.

Poverty doesn't actually seem to be the principal driver of extremism in much of Europe. As I mentioned previously, European Muslims actually seem to be overrepresented in at least some extremist circles if we examine per capita figures. A Belgian, Swedish, or French Muslim would have been more likely than a Pakistani or Afghan to enlist with ISIL. A lot of the problem appears to revolve around the loss of identity and meaning in the diaspora and the ability of radicals to employ mosques and the internet to indoctrinate vulnerable youths struggling with these existential crises. There's not really an easy solution to these problems beyond integration of enclaves into mainstream society and/or the suppression of Islamist propaganda.

[Perikuresu]

A lot of the problem appears to revolve around the loss of identity and meaning in the diaspora and the ability of radicals to employ mosques and the internet to indoctrinate vulnerable youths struggling with these existential crises. There's not really an easy solution to these problems beyond integration of enclaves into mainstream society and/or the suppression of Islamist propaganda.

I'm not an expert or anything but I feel like that these people want to feel like they belong to a group, that sense makes them more susceptible to propaganda, so part again, part of this may be a mental health problem

[Continental Free States]

A lot of the problem appears to revolve around the loss of identity and meaning in the diaspora and the ability of radicals to employ mosques and the internet to indoctrinate vulnerable youths struggling with these existential crises. There's not really an easy solution to these problems beyond integration of enclaves into mainstream society and/or the suppression of Islamist propaganda.

I'm not an expert or anything but I feel like that these people want to feel like they belong to a group, that sense makes them more susceptible to propaganda, so part again, part of this may be a mental health problem

Migrant groups not being able to integrate themselves into the society when the government does nothing to stop self-segregated communities being formed is not mental illness though, and honestly I'd blame their radicalization on their particularly-fundamentalist interpretation of their religion rather than poverty or a loss of identity. The former is demonstrably false, the latter is meaningless if you're trying to find any ways to stop the phenomenon.

[Harjanika]

This wouldn't work because that isn't the issue.
The issue... as always... is poverty. Poverty, lack of opportunity, and societal exclusion makes people turn almost inevitably to crime, extremism and criminal gangs, latter of which are the guys responsible for rioting last week. Solving poverty would probs involve introducing to Sweden some system where taxes are skyhigh to fund a well-functioning social assistance system that helps people instead of excluding the lot. This is something nobody politically important enough is interested in. Because they are all drunk on Thatcherism.

Poverty doesn't actually seem to be the principal driver of extremism in much of Europe. As I mentioned previously, European Muslims actually seem to be overrepresented in at least some extremist circles if we examine per capita figures. A Belgian, Swedish, or French Muslim would have been more likely than a Pakistani or Afghan to enlist with ISIL. A lot of the problem appears to revolve around the loss of identity and meaning in the diaspora and the ability of radicals to employ mosques and the internet to indoctrinate vulnerable youths struggling with these existential crises. There's not really an easy solution to these problems beyond integration of enclaves into mainstream society and/or the suppression of Islamist propaganda.

As someone who is part of a diaspora group of an Islamic country in the UK, all I can say about the loss of identity bit is:

PREACH

[Diarcesia]

This wouldn't work because that isn't the issue.
The issue... as always... is poverty. Poverty, lack of opportunity, and societal exclusion makes people turn almost inevitably to crime, extremism and criminal gangs, latter of which are the guys responsible for rioting last week. Solving poverty would probs involve introducing to Sweden some system where taxes are skyhigh to fund a well-functioning social assistance system that helps people instead of excluding the lot. This is something nobody politically important enough is interested in. Because they are all drunk on Thatcherism.

Poverty doesn't actually seem to be the principal driver of extremism in much of Europe. As I mentioned previously, European Muslims actually seem to be overrepresented in at least some extremist circles if we examine per capita figures. A Belgian, Swedish, or French Muslim would have been more likely than a Pakistani or Afghan to enlist with ISIL. A lot of the problem appears to revolve around the loss of identity and meaning in the diaspora and the ability of radicals to employ mosques and the internet to indoctrinate vulnerable youths struggling with these existential crises. There's not really an easy solution to these problems beyond integration of enclaves into mainstream society and/or the suppression of Islamist propaganda.

Could it be the sense that even if you integrate in the host country, they (the majority demographic) really don't see you as one of them?

Being considered a foreigner in your own country tends to mess up with your head.

[Harjanika]

A lot of the problem appears to revolve around the loss of identity and meaning in the diaspora and the ability of radicals to employ mosques and the internet to indoctrinate vulnerable youths struggling with these existential crises. There's not really an easy solution to these problems beyond integration of enclaves into mainstream society and/or the suppression of Islamist propaganda.

I'm not an expert or anything but I feel like that these people want to feel like they belong to a group, that sense makes them more susceptible to propaganda, so part again, part of this may be a mental health problem

Definitely not a mental health problem, but rather what the community of that group sees as the 'norm'. Trust me

[Fahran]

Could it be the sense that even if you integrate in the host country, they (the majority demographic) really don't see you as one of them?

Being considered a foreigner in your own country tends to mess up with your head.

Social exclusion does seem to play a significant role, but I wouldn't discount culture clashes, the listlessness and moral vacuity of liberal society, the self-seclusion of some portion of the Muslim community, and the desire to maintain authentic links with the culture and faith of ones' forebears as contributing factors as well. These problems have been much more pronounced in Europe than in the Americas to a significant degree. But, as I've mentioned both on-site and off-site, I think the reaction of Sayyid Qutb to liberal society is understandable if not particularly laudable. I think nationalists, dominionists, and Islamists, even more so than socialists, are responding to something alienating in our culture and trying to reassert meaning where none can be found.

[Fahran]

I'm not an expert or anything but I feel like that these people want to feel like they belong to a group, that sense makes them more susceptible to propaganda, so part again, part of this may be a mental health problem

Definitely not a mental health problem, but rather what the community of that group sees as the 'norm'. Trust me

^ This.

I'd consider it more of a social than a psychological problem. I don't think the youths who joined ISIL or the adults who engage in riots were/are mentally ill in the way that is commonly discussed. I do think our current society tends to exacerbate mental illnesses, sometimes for the same reasons, but that's a different problem to a significant degree.

[Sahamaina]

amog us

[Harjanika]

Definitely not a mental health problem, but rather what the community of that group sees as the 'norm'. Trust me

^ This.

I'd consider it more of a social than a psychological problem. I don't think the youths who joined ISIL or the adults who engage in riots were/are mentally ill in the way that is commonly discussed. I do think our current society tends to exacerbate mental illnesses, sometimes for the same reasons, but that's a different problem to a significant degree.

Yeah, even in non-extremist ways there are so many societal problems that lead these youths to fall in bad paths. Even little things like "DoN't MaRrY a NoN-mUsLiM" can cause social problems in minority groups. I'm part of one myself

[Northern Seleucia]

Riots in Sweden? What happened in Sabaton-land?

[Chan Island]

Riots in Sweden? What happened in Sabaton-land?

A small demonstration by far right types a month ago. Safely irrelevant.