Working from home; not a panacea?

[GuessTheAltAccount]

As for managers and employees, how would that work? There are usually several employees per manager, so a manager would have to travel to several houses in one day, and would only get to supervise them for a small fraction of the day.

You'd have one manager to each employee on a full time basis. Which means companies will be forced to either trust employees more to be on their own if they're remote, or to pay out more for more managers and to get the money from either hiring fewer employees or paying the executives/shareholders less than they're used to. The manager assigned to an employee can show up everyday to watch them, or show up randomly so the employee doesn't know exactly when to fake doing work and when to do the work because someone is watching.

Usually managers need to be there not because people aren't working at all, but because people need guidance to ensure the work being done is being done correctly. What matters in the end, is whether more profits than expenses are happening.

What's stopping such "guidance" from being done remotely?

Managers showing up at your home at unpredictable times sounds creepy. Really creepy. I'd rather they found some way to assess the quality of our work remotely.

[Ethel mermania]

You'd have one manager to each employee on a full time basis. Which means companies will be forced to either trust employees more to be on their own if they're remote, or to pay out more for more managers and to get the money from either hiring fewer employees or paying the executives/shareholders less than they're used to. The manager assigned to an employee can show up everyday to watch them, or show up randomly so the employee doesn't know exactly when to fake doing work and when to do the work because someone is watching.

Usually managers need to be there not because people aren't working at all, but because people need guidance to ensure the work being done is being done correctly. What matters in the end, is whether more profits than expenses are happening.

What's stopping such "guidance" from being done remotely?

Managers showing up at your home at unpredictable times sounds creepy. Really creepy. I'd rather they found some way to assess the quality of our work remotely.

My boss just called me on a teams meeting during working hours.

[Czardas]

The fundamental problem with working at home is, of course, that it involves work. The other fundamental problem is the negative effect that working from home has on commercial space usage and city centre retail and so on; it's economically damaging to leave all that office space empty.

The obvious and elegant solution is for us to simply use offices as second homes.

[The Blaatschapen]

The fundamental problem with working at home is, of course, that it involves work. The other fundamental problem is the negative effect that working from home has on commercial space usage and city centre retail and so on; it's economically damaging to leave all that office space empty.

The obvious and elegant solution is for us to simply use offices as second homes.

We can convert that office space into more homes. Rents are too high anyway, so more supply would be good.

Thus, no need for second homes. Just more first homes for people.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

The fundamental problem with working at home is, of course, that it involves work. The other fundamental problem is the negative effect that working from home has on commercial space usage and city centre retail and so on; it's economically damaging to leave all that office space empty.

The obvious and elegant solution is for us to simply use offices as second homes.

We can convert that office space into more homes. Rents are too high anyway, so more supply would be good.

Thus, no need for second homes. Just more first homes for people.

Yes, this. That society as a whole has not adopted this solution already leaves the question of what financial vested interests are being catered to. Sounds to me more like the rich are more interested in threatening workers who don't kowtow enough with homelessness than in having a second mansion.

[Czardas]

The fundamental problem with working at home is, of course, that it involves work. The other fundamental problem is the negative effect that working from home has on commercial space usage and city centre retail and so on; it's economically damaging to leave all that office space empty.

The obvious and elegant solution is for us to simply use offices as second homes.

We can convert that office space into more homes. Rents are too high anyway, so more supply would be good.

Thus, no need for second homes. Just more first homes for people.

Excellent idea. Of course, this would have a significant negative impact car and mass transit usage, since people would no longer be going to their former offices at all, but I suppose we could use the same opportunity to convert trains into mobile hotels/apartment buildings and buses into mobile single-person homes, and then cars could be nationalised and made freely available such that anyone who did wish to travel somewhere for non-work-related reasons could just reserve the nearest vehicle.

Really, we'll solve all of society's problems at this rate.

[Katganistan]

Personally I found I very much disliked work from home, but that's a me thing and has no bearing on the rest of society.

I loved that my commute was approximately 20 feet, that bathroom breaks were when I needed them, not when I called a colleague to watch my class, and that coffee was always 30 seconds away.

I work from home and its purely a discipline issue to insure that you are making a psychological break between Work time and home time.
Its really easy to get things mixed or to make oneself distracted by doing home stuff instead of working, but equally its possible for family time to be compromised by work - especially with social media and cellphones allowing 24 hour contact

What I did was literally set up my iPad with alarms for all parts of my day. It woke me in the am, got me to my pre-class meeting, rang for the beginning and end of each class, for my lunch period, and an after-class grading period every day. That made sure that between 7:30am and 4pm I was on task with what I needed to do.

As for managers and employees, how would that work? There are usually several employees per manager, so a manager would have to travel to several houses in one day, and would only get to supervise them for a small fraction of the day.

You'd have one manager to each employee on a full time basis. Which means companies will be forced to either trust employees more to be on their own if they're remote, or to pay out more for more managers and to get the money from either hiring fewer employees or paying the executives/shareholders less than they're used to. The manager assigned to an employee can show up everyday to watch them, or show up randomly so the employee doesn't know exactly when to fake doing work and when to do the work because someone is watching.

Usually managers need to be there not because people aren't working at all, but because people need guidance to ensure the work being done is being done correctly. What matters in the end, is whether more profits than expenses are happening.

That's ridiculous, honestly. People generally don't need that sort of oversight, nor are they about to allow their privacy to be invaded daily by having an unwanted guest poking around their home, and if there is an issue that needs to be worked out there are three brand new ways to deal with it: a telephone call, a Zoom/Teams/Google Meet call, or an email.

[Hamidiye]

Is this the office-version of first-world-problems?

Guess that's what I get for actually working with my hands, producing more than TPS-reports.

[Big Bad Blue]

Working from home works for me. My commute has gone from 18 miles (30 kliks) each way to a walk to my dining room table. Far from wearing out my welcome with my wife of nearly 22 years it has brought us closer together. And I can take time off to play with the dogs. make lunch, run short errands or whatever.

Our state government office took a poll and found that so few people wanted to be "officed" that it could afford to move to smaller quarters, which it is in the process of doing. More savings for taxpayers, more efficient government, what's not to like? This is a win-win-win. And if not for a global pandemic it may never have happened...

[Major-Tom]

The main problem with working form home is that it's work, and work sucks.

"Work sucks, I know."


In terms of the OP, I personally find it hard to work from home. I'm a very Type A person, and I think that personality trait of mine made it difficult for me to work from home. I genuinely enjoy things like having meetings with people in-person versus over Zoom, getting my work done in an environment that isn't my tiny apartment, etc etc. I've enjoyed 55 hour weeks where much of my time is spent talking to people far more than 40 hour weeks where I feel isolated.

[Saiwania]

..and if there is an issue that needs to be worked out there are three brand new ways to deal with it: a telephone call, a Zoom/Teams/Google Meet call, or an email.

I don't think I'd trust technology to that extent, if its supposed to be just a tool. On the days where the ISP is having issues, it'd be a real problem. And all of those things can be faked or manipulated into making it appear as if someone is working but in reality- nothing productive actually happened.

There is plenty of spyware software these days that tons of companies require people to install nowadays on work equipment if not their personal devices, but how is it much better than what I suggest, if it could conceivably be fooled or is even more intrustive of your digital life after work hours?

It'll be reflected in the company balance sheets and it'd take some real digging to narrow down- what exactly is going on behind the scenes.

[Ethel mermania]

..and if there is an issue that needs to be worked out there are three brand new ways to deal with it: a telephone call, a Zoom/Teams/Google Meet call, or an email.

I don't think I'd trust technology to that extent, if its supposed to be just a tool. On the days where the ISP is having issues, it'd be a real problem. And all of those things can be faked or manipulated into making it appear as if someone is working but in reality- nothing productive actually happened.

There is plenty of spyware software these days that tons of companies require people to install nowadays on work equipment if not their personal devices, but how is it much better than what I suggest, if it could conceivably be fooled or is even more intrustive of your digital life after work hours?

It'll be reflected in the company balance sheets and it'd take some real digging to narrow down- what exactly is going on behind the scenes.

Or your boss can call you on a teams meeting on a Friday afternoon at 3 to go over next weeks plans. That way he knows you are working and getting done what you need.

Little simpler

[Krasny-Volny]

Here in the UK, there's been a lot of discussion in the papers about civil servants not returning to their offices, or firms delaying the return to the office. The papers sometimes wonder when they'll return. This has caused problems for the DVLA, our equivalent of the DMV.

The DMV's per-state unlike the UK where it covers the whole country; as I understand it, U.S. states are not analogous to our English counties like Worcestershire, Warwickshire etc.

Notably, firms like Twitter and Google are allowing people to work from home indefinitely.

But how often is working from home not a panacea? I could understand it being a temporary emergency solution while the pandemic and lockdowns were on, especially with fears of a fourth lockdown in the UK, but not permanently.

Do you think it makes sense to have a home/work life split and not have home and work in the same place, being switched-on in work-mode at any time due to timezone differences?

Way back in 2003-2004, working from home was shown in articles about the then-future of 2020 and 2030, which seems a bit quaint now, and looking back, a bit prescient too...

Of course, how it was written in mid-2003 was presenting it as something new, exciting and futuristic, one Geocities site overhyping it. Unfortunately that site seems to have gone from the web now, or I'd have linked to it.

I also remember in my social circles people assuming working from home was something for the rich and famous to do, but not ordinary people.

But in reality, how many of you hate working from home, and never enjoyed Zoom/Teams etc. or video-calls?

Luckily, I avoided this; my job couldn't be done over Zoom anyway for various reasons, so I've been technically unemployed for 2 years now, don't know when/if I'll return to the office. It's too sensitive to mention on here for various reasons, both legal reasons and confidentiality reasons.

Good to see some shops that were on life support by the WFH revolution now getting a revival - such as suit shops etc. and restaurants/coffee shops. Not all coffee shops are overpriced , independent etc.

In general, is working from home largely something that's not as great as people would have made it out to be?
Did you really hate working from home during the pandemic, unless you were doing a job such as delivery work etc.?

My trade required me to work outdoors, so doing most of my work from home was never an option for me. Lots of other people in various professions were in the same boat. You can’t roof a house, catch fish, deliver mail, mow lawns, unclog a toilet, or harvest crops over Zoom.

I’d be OK running my own business out of my house, but I’ll probably never be comfortable with the notion of working all day from inside the house and never having to leave. I’d get cabin fever in a hurry and never want to be home outside of my working hours.

[Dagnia]

Personally, I prefer the ability to work from both office and home if I choose. I work in IT (several different domains from desktop support to software engineering) and rarely haven't had the option to work at least 50% remote. Most of the time, I've opted to work in the office. Being something of a job hopper, it's hard to get up to speed when you're not physically in. Skype and teams can tell you who has touched their keyboard in the last 5 minutes, but it can't tell you if someone is in the middle of something or simply can't won't answer. In the office, I can look over to the next cubical and see if someone might not want to be bothered or if they might have some bandwidth to help me with a question. When I am at a place long enough to know all the basics (at a lot of these places with their own in-house solutions and no training in even the most basic things, this can actually take a long time) and haven't become bored I often start working a day or two every week from home.
In summer of 2020, I got my first 100% remote job which kind of turned me off from the idea of remote work for a while. Looking back, it was not the remote work itself. The project was with an international food services and facilities management company (they may have run your university or corporate cafeteria) building an app to allow contactless ordering of food from cafeterias at US and Canadian universities. All my coworkers and superiors were great, but the project was extremely rushed (not really their fault) and among the most stressful jobs I've ever had. I would have given a limb to have an office to go to. I would definitely consider trying something 100% remote again if it were something a little more routine.

[Haganham]

The fundamental problem with working at home is, of course, that it involves work. The other fundamental problem is the negative effect that working from home has on commercial space usage and city centre retail and so on; it's economically damaging to leave all that office space empty.

The obvious and elegant solution is for us to simply use offices as second homes.

We can convert that office space into more homes. Rents are too high anyway, so more supply would be good.

Thus, no need for second homes. Just more first homes for people.

We really can't. Offices buildings are simply not designed to be residences.
That said, demo them.

Though if you really want to lower rent; don't allow property owners to deduct depreciation if the unit is not inhabited. Single units it's all or nothing, multi units you can deduct the fraction of the units that are inhabited.

[The Alma Mater]

This transition to working at home needed to happen. So many gallons of gasoline consumed just to transport employees to their workplaces to be supervised in person, when really, work that can be done remotely should be work whose productivity can be assessed remotely.

Or better yet, why not have the manager travel to the employees' houses to supervise their work from there?

I know at least one company that had this suggestion as its april fools joke this year...

[Nimzonia]

The biggest advantage of working from home is cost.. it's not just commuting costs, and getting that overpriced coffee on the way.. but where I could easily spend some $80 a day on travel, coffees, lunch, dinner and possibly drinks.. might buy some clothing.. I rarely spend even $10 a day now..

Time is the other advantage. I've been working from home since way before the pandemic and one of the biggest advantages for me is the time saved by not having to commute. I get out of bed at 7:50am and am at my desk at 8am. Then at 4:30pm I shut down my work PC and am immediately free to do whatever the fuck I want for the next 7 hours. When I last commuted, I used to end up with about 3 hours to myself on a weekday evening. That's not a life. You'd have to add an extra digit to my salary to get me to voluntarily go back to that shit.

[Cisairse]

But in reality, how many of you hate working from home, and never enjoyed Zoom/Teams etc. or video-calls?

It really, really sucks.

I had online classes for my senior year of college and I didn't learn anything for the entire year.

When I started full time in June 2021, I had the choice to work in-person full time, remote full time, or hybrid. I chose in-person full time, and I have never thought about changing my mind.

[Esternial]

Before the pandemic we were allowed to work from home 2 days a week. It was a nice compromise, as it allowed you to organise your life a bit around those two WFH days. I usually do my groceries or run other errands during lunchtime as it's less busy. It's also nice to be able to go out cycling while the sun is at its highest rather than after work, when it's already starting to cool down a bit in early spring.

It's great in moderation and if left as optional. It all depends on whether or not you and your company can afford to have a (partial) WFH arrangement, and this panademic has forced some companies to finally explore and acknowledge that option, because they sure as hell wouldn't have bothered otherwise. I was fortunate enough to work for one that already had a pretty solid remote working option, so practically very little changed there for me. It was just mentally taxing, as I'm sure it must have been for many others.

Going forward I will probably go to the office 2 days a week now, just to interact with my colleagues. Any official meetings (or "ceremonies") are going to be still held online since we've got colleagues in the US and Malaysia.

[Australian rePublic]

I am a delivery driver. I cannot work from home. During lockdown, I was not working and on emergency government support for various reasons. (I never actually thought that staying home and playing video games would ever make me a responsible member of society) However, I have studied business and used to work in an office. From my understanding, way, way, way before the pandemic, working from home (for office workers) seemed like the invadable future. The pandemic only exacerbated it. There was some pushback, from people who were scared that it would lead to a lack of productivity from certain employees. The problem here is that businesses in areas with heaps of office buildings (such as restaurants and cafes) and businesses at public transport commuting to offices are suffering. It's a serious problem that Australia is trying to address.

[Victorious Decepticons]

I've been self-employed and working at home for over 20 years. The only conceivable way anyone will get me into ANY workplace as an employee is to kill me, taxidermy my corpse, drag it into the building, and put it on display.

Or better yet, why not have the manager travel to the employees' houses to supervise their work from there?

I'd have trouble responding to that outrage in a way that is even legal. There's absolutely NO way I'd go along with it.