Working from home; not a panacea?

[West Bromwich Holme]

Here in the UK, there's been a lot of discussion in the papers about civil servants not returning to their offices, or firms delaying the return to the office. The papers sometimes wonder when they'll return. This has caused problems for the DVLA, our equivalent of the DMV.

The DMV's per-state unlike the UK where it covers the whole country; as I understand it, U.S. states are not analogous to our English counties like Worcestershire, Warwickshire etc.

Notably, firms like Twitter and Google are allowing people to work from home indefinitely.

But how often is working from home not a panacea? I could understand it being a temporary emergency solution while the pandemic and lockdowns were on, especially with fears of a fourth lockdown in the UK, but not permanently.

Do you think it makes sense to have a home/work life split and not have home and work in the same place, being switched-on in work-mode at any time due to timezone differences?

Way back in 2003-2004, working from home was shown in articles about the then-future of 2020 and 2030, which seems a bit quaint now, and looking back, a bit prescient too...

Of course, how it was written in mid-2003 was presenting it as something new, exciting and futuristic, one Geocities site overhyping it. Unfortunately that site seems to have gone from the web now, or I'd have linked to it.

I also remember in my social circles people assuming working from home was something for the rich and famous to do, but not ordinary people.

But in reality, how many of you hate working from home, and never enjoyed Zoom/Teams etc. or video-calls?

Luckily, I avoided this; my job couldn't be done over Zoom anyway for various reasons, so I've been technically unemployed for 2 years now, don't know when/if I'll return to the office. It's too sensitive to mention on here for various reasons, both legal reasons and confidentiality reasons.

Good to see some shops that were on life support by the WFH revolution now getting a revival - such as suit shops etc. and restaurants/coffee shops. Not all coffee shops are overpriced , independent etc.

In general, is working from home largely something that's not as great as people would have made it out to be?
Did you really hate working from home during the pandemic, unless you were doing a job such as delivery work etc.?

[Ethel mermania]

We did work from home during the pandemic. For somethings it was better others worse. Personally I like 50% work from home. I was able to set up days where I could get paperwork done without interruption, and days I went in I did my site visits and inspections.

Also I worked more hours work from home. I have a 1 pm drs appointment and I have to be in the city, its a paid sick day. I work from home, I go to the medical and work an hour later. I get a full day in, and don't burn a sick day for it

[The Alma Mater]

Working from home has its pros and cons - and ironically several are the same.

E.g. - not having a commute saves time. Otoh, if you commuted by bike, it means you excercise far less unless you have the self-discipline to hit the gym.
Also, going home after work does indeed help to seperate private life and work.

That division is indeed also much harder if you are not that rich. People with big homes can just have a dedicated in-home office; which they can literally close behind them when the workday is over. People in a small home cannot - their "office" is usually a shared space performing various functions; meaning they never actually "leave" work.

If your job is flexible enough to allow you to decide *when* to work, as long as you at least log 8 or 9 active hours/day that also seems a blessing: you can do some laundry, get groceries etc at a time when the stores are not that busy... but in practice that means your workday will be interrupted and that a 9 tilll 5 day in reality is from 7 till 7 with breaks. That also can have some psychological negative consequences.

So.. it is a mixed bag.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

My last full time role had me working from home all the time (2013 - 2019) unless I was visiting customers. As my site was in France and I lived in the UK it made sense to do this as I was not involved in the day to day running of the plant. A monthly two day visit to site was all that was needed - everything else could be handled by email/Skype/phone (pre-Zoom days).

The working from home did require discipline - I would work “office” hours, and told my wife to act as if I wasn’t there during that time. Worked pretty well once I got a routine going.

I’m just about to rejoin the workforce after sort of retiring for 30 months - my new role requires me to be in the office for two days and working from home for two. Feels like a nice balance to me.

Personally, I like working from home - it may not be for everyone though.

[Ifreann]

The main problem with working form home is that it's work, and work sucks.

[Malphe II]

As a student with no experience working in cubicles, I'm not sure I can see the difficulties with working from home being more than a problem of acclimatisation*? I've been studying from home for years anyways, I honestly find it a lot more amicable than having to drag myself out of my home into less familiar environments with more distractions, way harder for me to work in areas I don't feel comfortable in.

*insofar as it's an issue with a workspace mindset, there are more empirical practical reasons otherwise.

[Page]

There is absolutely no reason that anybody who can work from home should be forced to go in the office, and if those workers being in the office is said by their employers to be essential, we must ask if it is really up to those employers to define essential. Because sometimes an employer's reasoning is bullshit. A lot of them are power tripping assholes who just hate the idea of an employee getting work done in their pajamas even if the work is perfectly fine, because they want them in the office dressing as they're told to dress, kissing ass, and having their bathroom breaks timed.

But some jobs absolutely do require people to show up, and for those workers we can at least make work less shitty. Christ, I was back in America this January and the grocery store cashiers still don't have chairs in 20-fucking-22.

[Saiwania]

The issue is that not all lines of work can be done from home. An Automobile Mechanic for example, needs to physically be there to take apart a vehicle and do work on it replacing parts and etc. in fixing it up for the customer. A Dentist needs to physically be there to diagnose or work on someone's teeth. A Garbage man needs to physically be there to pick up everyone's trash to haul it to the landfill and so on.

And it tends to be true that most people can't be trusted to be as productive in a residential setting as opposed to an office/business or work setting. A ton of companies will perhaps waste tons of money paying for work that hasn't been done or done half-assed.

Bosses understandibly want employees in general to physically be nearby, so managers can do their managing properly; which breaks down more if someone is away at home- where various hacks/tricks can be done to bamboozle the employer into thinking that non-existent work is actually being done and generating profits when the person isn't for the full 8 hours or so for the work day. And in reality, is gaming the system.

[Xmara]

People should have a choice to work from home. However, I personally hate working from home and I am so glad that I'm going into a field where I can't work from home. My last couple of semesters of undergrad were done primarily from home because of the pandemic, and while it was nice that I didn't have to leave the house, I also hated the fact that I felt like my school life and home life weren't separated.

[The Alma Mater]

And it tends to be true that most people can't be trusted to be as productive in a residential setting as opposed to an office/business or work setting.

Actually the opposite - companies saw a significant increase in productivity when working from home.
Also the amount of sickleave was drastically reduced.

[Ifreann]

And it tends to be true that most people can't be trusted to be as productive in a residential setting as opposed to an office/business or work setting.

Actually the opposite - companies saw a significant increase in productivity when working from home.
Also the amount of sickleave was drastically reduced.

Wanting people working in the office is a function of the short-sighted profit-seeking of corporate culture. Bosses want people in the office, under the watchful eye of managers, because that way they can get more out of you than what they're paying you for. More hours worked, or more tasks they can put on you without paying you more. Short term, that's a big win for them, that's free labour they're getting from you. Medium to long term, they're shooting themselves in the foot. The longer you work, the worse you work, and eventually you'll burnout or have a heart attack at your desk or something.

[Cameroi]

if you live by yourself, and like to be by yourself, it might be great. of course there's only so many kinds of jobs its physically possible to do that way at all.
believe it or not, the world cannot run on office work alone. imagine what lag time could do running a fork lift or an excavator by remote from home.

then for those humans dependent emotionally on social contact, and the only or almost only social contact they get is at work.

fortunately i'm the likes to be by myself sort. unfortunately i've almost never had that kind of job where i could.

[Luziyca]

As someone who has yet to have a proper job (no, volunteering does not count), but who has experienced online learning during the recent unpleasantness, I do feel like I do much better when I'm in an in-person setting, although if it has to be online, I prefer synchronous online sessions as opposed to asynchronous online sessions where they're like "go through the slides at your own pace and do the assignments :3," since having some sort of regular schedule incentivizes me to, y'know, do things and not just put it off until you have that sinking feeling that something is due tonight or worse, overdue.

That being said, there are plenty of pros to working/learning from home: reducing your commute from an X-minute/hour long bus ride/drive/whatever to and from school/work is a great advantage because it means you don't have to spend much time going between places, and with my uni now back in person (save for specific online classes), I've noticed I've been spending a lot more money than I had been last year, when my uni was online, even though I kept ordering in food almost every day: whereas I had enough money to get me through until the end of May, as of now, I only have like $50 or so in my bank account.

I do think in my opinion, there are certain things that can be done quite well remote work/learning, and others that do not lend themselves all that well to it (looking at you, Calculus and French).

[Nilokeras]

The real story behind all these articles hand wringing about working from home is the almost demise of the commercial real estate industry during COVID - a lot of commercial tenants realized during the pandemic that they didn't need to rent giant, expensive offices. They could instead downsize the space they rent and only lease enough to house workers who really did need to be physically present.

Across the country, the vacancy rate for office buildings in city centers has steadily climbed over the past year to reach 16.4 percent, according to Cushman & Wakefield, the highest in about a decade. That number could climb further, even as vaccinations allow some people to go back to work, if companies keep giving up office space because of hybrid or fully remote work.

So far, landlords like Boston Properties and SL Green have not suffered huge financial losses, having survived the past year by collecting rent from tenants locked into long leases — the average contract for office space runs about seven years.

But as leases slowly come up for renewal, property owners could be left with scores of empty floors. At the same time, many new office buildings are under construction — 124 million square feet nationwide, or enough for roughly 700,000 workers. Those changes could drive down rents, which were touching new highs before the pandemic. And rents help determine assessments that are the basis for property tax bills.

Many big employers have already given notice to the owners of some prestigious buildings that they are leaving when their leases end. United Airlines is giving up some 150,000 square feet, or over 17 percent of its space, at Willis Tower in Chicago, the third-tallest building in the country and a prized possession of Blackstone, the Wall Street firm. Salesforce is subletting half its space, equivalent to roughly 225,000 square feet, at 350 Mission Street, a San Francisco tower designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill and owned by Kilroy Realty.

Commercial real estate is of course a trillion dollar industry that is heavily entwined with a lot of pension funds and major institutional investors since it previously was such a safe investment, so there has naturally been a lot of push to get things 'back to normal' and the steady stream of 'why working from home is actually bad' articles from the usual suspects.

[Bear Stearns]

Working from home full time in my industry was barbaric, but I really enjoy the 3-days-a-week model.

However, this will not last. Corporate America want to justify their rents and want to foster internal cultures. Google can act as hip as it wants and do full work from home, but banks, law firms, consultancies, accountancies, etc. are all going to be back to full-time 5-days a week in the office by 2023.

[Bear Stearns]

The real story behind all these articles hand wringing about working from home is the almost demise of the commercial real estate industry during COVID - a lot of commercial tenants realized during the pandemic that they didn't need to rent giant, expensive offices. They could instead downsize the space they rent and only lease enough to house workers who really did need to be physically present.

Across the country, the vacancy rate for office buildings in city centers has steadily climbed over the past year to reach 16.4 percent, according to Cushman & Wakefield, the highest in about a decade. That number could climb further, even as vaccinations allow some people to go back to work, if companies keep giving up office space because of hybrid or fully remote work.

So far, landlords like Boston Properties and SL Green have not suffered huge financial losses, having survived the past year by collecting rent from tenants locked into long leases — the average contract for office space runs about seven years.

But as leases slowly come up for renewal, property owners could be left with scores of empty floors. At the same time, many new office buildings are under construction — 124 million square feet nationwide, or enough for roughly 700,000 workers. Those changes could drive down rents, which were touching new highs before the pandemic. And rents help determine assessments that are the basis for property tax bills.

Many big employers have already given notice to the owners of some prestigious buildings that they are leaving when their leases end. United Airlines is giving up some 150,000 square feet, or over 17 percent of its space, at Willis Tower in Chicago, the third-tallest building in the country and a prized possession of Blackstone, the Wall Street firm. Salesforce is subletting half its space, equivalent to roughly 225,000 square feet, at 350 Mission Street, a San Francisco tower designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill and owned by Kilroy Realty.

Commercial real estate is of course a trillion dollar industry that is heavily entwined with a lot of pension funds and major institutional investors since it previously was such a safe investment, so there has naturally been a lot of push to get things 'back to normal' and the steady stream of 'why working from home is actually bad' articles from the usual suspects.

Bolded is the key. For a lot of industries, people will be working in the office full-time at pre-pandemic levels by next year. It's already happening at many companies. Deutsche Bank's New York office is already doing this.

[Chan Island]

Personally I found I very much disliked work from home, but that's a me thing and has no bearing on the rest of society.

[The Blaatschapen]

Silly humans, inventing work from home in the 21st century.

Sheep have been so smart, we've been working from home since forever. We live on the meadow, and we work (graze) on the meadow.

[Ethel mermania]

The real story behind all these articles hand wringing about working from home is the almost demise of the commercial real estate industry during COVID - a lot of commercial tenants realized during the pandemic that they didn't need to rent giant, expensive offices. They could instead downsize the space they rent and only lease enough to house workers who really did need to be physically present.

Across the country, the vacancy rate for office buildings in city centers has steadily climbed over the past year to reach 16.4 percent, according to Cushman & Wakefield, the highest in about a decade. That number could climb further, even as vaccinations allow some people to go back to work, if companies keep giving up office space because of hybrid or fully remote work.

So far, landlords like Boston Properties and SL Green have not suffered huge financial losses, having survived the past year by collecting rent from tenants locked into long leases — the average contract for office space runs about seven years.

But as leases slowly come up for renewal, property owners could be left with scores of empty floors. At the same time, many new office buildings are under construction — 124 million square feet nationwide, or enough for roughly 700,000 workers. Those changes could drive down rents, which were touching new highs before the pandemic. And rents help determine assessments that are the basis for property tax bills.

Many big employers have already given notice to the owners of some prestigious buildings that they are leaving when their leases end. United Airlines is giving up some 150,000 square feet, or over 17 percent of its space, at Willis Tower in Chicago, the third-tallest building in the country and a prized possession of Blackstone, the Wall Street firm. Salesforce is subletting half its space, equivalent to roughly 225,000 square feet, at 350 Mission Street, a San Francisco tower designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill and owned by Kilroy Realty.

Commercial real estate is of course a trillion dollar industry that is heavily entwined with a lot of pension funds and major institutional investors since it previously was such a safe investment, so there has naturally been a lot of push to get things 'back to normal' and the steady stream of 'why working from home is actually bad' articles from the usual suspects.

This is true, also all the downtown small businesses are getting killed, the coffee shops and restaurants that cater to the lunchtime crowd. The economics of the big city do Change if you get rid of downtown.

[Cetacea]

I work from home and its purely a discipline issue to insure that you are making a psychological break between Work time and home time.
Its really easy to get things mixed or to make oneself distracted by doing home stuff instead of working, but equally its possible for family time to be compromised by work - especially with social media and cellphones allowing 24 hour contact

[GuessTheAltAccount]

I work from home and its purely a discipline issue to insure that you are making a psychological break between Work time and home time.
Its really easy to get things mixed or to make oneself distracted by doing home stuff instead of working, but equally its possible for family time to be compromised by work - especially with social media and cellphones allowing 24 hour contact

To which walks of life that needed to take some of their work home with them anyway would say "welcome to my world."

This transition to working at home needed to happen. So many gallons of gasoline consumed just to transport employees to their workplaces to be supervised in person, when really, work that can be done remotely should be work whose productivity can be assessed remotely.

Before we go back to the way things were, ask yourself this; how much worse would the gas price surge from anti-Russia sanctions be if you had to drive to work on top of everything else?

[Saiwania]

This transition to working at home needed to happen. So many gallons of gasoline consumed just to transport employees to their workplaces to be supervised in person, when really, work that can be done remotely should be work whose productivity can be assessed remotely.

Or better yet, why not have the manager travel to the employees' houses to supervise their work from there? Its bad for business, but pro-employment perhaps, because so many more management types need to be hired under that scheme. Only way to make it work is to have fewer employees or to spend less on the executive or higher tier top talent.

But the real solution is probably electric cars and nuclear power being adopted on a wider scale. Yes, people have to drive to work and spend time in traffic, but such is life.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

This transition to working at home needed to happen. So many gallons of gasoline consumed just to transport employees to their workplaces to be supervised in person, when really, work that can be done remotely should be work whose productivity can be assessed remotely.

Or better yet, why not have the manager travel to the employees' houses to supervise their work from there? Its bad for business, but pro-employment perhaps, because so many more management types need to be hired under that scheme. Only way to make it work is to have fewer employees or to spend less on the executive or higher tier top talent.

But the real solution is probably electric cars and nuclear power being adopted on a wider scale. Yes, people have to drive to work and spend time in traffic, but such is life.

Electric cars result in mining of toxic metals, and nuclear power might not necessarily be within our grasp as the clumsy evolutionary cousins of apes to responsibly handle, especially in light of the kinds of nuclear accidents caused in even the most high-tech of countries. Neither is a reliable solution.

A transition toward public transit would be better for the environment (and for reducing traffic deaths) but too many people just refuse to give up their cars.

As for managers and employees, how would that work? There are usually several employees per manager, so a manager would have to travel to several houses in one day, and would only get to supervise them for a small fraction of the day.

[Saiwania]

As for managers and employees, how would that work? There are usually several employees per manager, so a manager would have to travel to several houses in one day, and would only get to supervise them for a small fraction of the day.

You'd have one manager to each employee on a full time basis. Which means companies will be forced to either trust employees more to be on their own if they're remote, or to pay out more for more managers and to get the money from either hiring fewer employees or paying the executives/shareholders less than they're used to. The manager assigned to an employee can show up everyday to watch them, or show up randomly so the employee doesn't know exactly when to fake doing work and when to do the work because someone is watching.

Usually managers need to be there not because people aren't working at all, but because people need guidance to ensure the work being done is being done correctly. What matters in the end, is whether more profits than expenses are happening.

[Bombadil]

The biggest advantage of working from home is cost.. it's not just commuting costs, and getting that overpriced coffee on the way.. but where I could easily spend some $80 a day on travel, coffees, lunch, dinner and possibly drinks.. might buy some clothing.. I rarely spend even $10 a day now..

My TV is old, whereas previously I'd be walking past electronic shops and thinking 'I should get a spanking new uber-immersive TV', I'm not walking past electronic shops anymore so the thought doesn't occur to me.

Of course I could probably maintain that with commuting, but I have two hours of time taken from me back and forth that means I'm more inclined to buy a meal than cook one, and I can see old habits slipping back in.

So if I was told to return to office, I'd be having some conversation about commute costs.