Ukrainian War Thread III: The Horrors

[Dtn]

I no longer have the documentation from the Ukrainian embassy, but if you get into contact with them they’ll undoubtedly be willing to provide the enlistment contract for the volunteer forces they provided to me, which covers my above points.

Edit: the economist reported on the indefinite contracts. https://www.economist.com/1843/2022/03/11/fighters-with-ukraines-foreign-legion-are-being-asked-to-sign-indefinite-contracts-some-have-refused

Ignore list for you.

cyber-volunteer blocks USN submariner for linking notable anti-western publication the economist

take that putin

[Laka Strolistandiler]

It's pretty screwed up (for the people who don't know what they're getting into anyway, so always read the fine print of any contract you sign) and anyone who goes is not thinking very smartly IMO, but people who say "they would go but" literally don't have an excuse unless they are in a wheelchair with no legs, or have a missing hand, or something drastic. Even then they will probably find something for you to do and could probably fashion you peg legs out of chairs if they really have to, and it's not like it's the first time someone fought in shooting war with a wooden arm.

Well I’d go but there are a couple of problems in my way- firstly I live in Russia and secondly I still have my family who would care if I’d die. Not that dying for a good cause in such a cool way would be a problem for em though. Especially dying fact because that means that I won’t have to live for like 40 more years before I’ll be gone

[Kalaron]

Ignore list for you.

cyber-volunteer blocks USN submariner for linking notable anti-western publication the economist

take that putin

Stunning and brave

[Archinstinct]

All right, I have but one question regarding the Bucha- the city’s mayor has released the video joyfully explaining that the Russians have left the city on April 1st- however judging from the sheer number of bodies supposedly scattered everywhere, I think that this would’ve been the subject he would be talking about.

This was probably discussed before but hey I couldn’t find it

What's the question? Why he wasn't talking about it on april 1st?

[Laka Strolistandiler]

All right, I have but one question regarding the Bucha- the city’s mayor has released the video joyfully explaining that the Russians have left the city on April 1st- however judging from the sheer number of bodies supposedly scattered everywhere, I think that this would’ve been the subject he would be talking about.

This was probably discussed before but hey I couldn’t find it

What's the question? Why he wasn't talking about it on april 1st?

Yes- and why almost no discussion of this massacre supposedly rivaling Katyn has taken place, given the nearly 4-day delay between first publications and Russians leaving the area

[Washington Resistance Army]

What's the question? Why he wasn't talking about it on april 1st?

Yes- and why almost no discussion of this massacre supposedly rivaling Katyn has taken place, given the nearly 4-day delay between first publications and Russians leaving the area

A massive discussion has taken place regarding it. The UNSC had a whole meeting about it, Russia got booted from the Human Rights Council over it, the EU has passed a new round of sanctions over it, the US is in the process of passing a new Lend-Lease bill to aid Ukraine over it etc etc. It's also the talk of the town in pretty much every western media outlet.

There's just not much to say about it here on NSG, we all agreed it was barbarism of the highest order and so there wasn't really anything else to talk about or discuss.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Yes- and why almost no discussion of this massacre supposedly rivaling Katyn has taken place, given the nearly 4-day delay between first publications and Russians leaving the area

A massive discussion has taken place regarding it. The UNSC had a whole meeting about it, Russia got booted from the Human Rights Council over it, the EU has passed a new round of sanctions over it, the US is in the process of passing a new Lend-Lease bill to aid Ukraine over it etc etc. It's also the talk of the town in pretty much every western media outlet.

There's just not much to say about it here on NSG, we all agreed it was barbarism of the highest order and so there wasn't really anything else to talk about or discuss.

I was strictly talking about the days between March 30th and April 3rd- and I don’t remember all of what you’ve mentioned here being about Bucha. Correct me if I’m wrong because psychiatric treatment may have caused me to receive wrong information

[Archinstinct]

Yes- and why almost no discussion of this massacre supposedly rivaling Katyn has taken place, given the nearly 4-day delay between first publications and Russians leaving the area

A massive discussion has taken place regarding it. The UNSC had a whole meeting about it, Russia got booted from the Human Rights Council over it, the EU has passed a new round of sanctions over it, the US is in the process of passing a new Lend-Lease bill to aid Ukraine over it etc etc. It's also the talk of the town in pretty much every western media outlet.

There's just not much to say about it here on NSG, we all agreed it was barbarism of the highest order and so there wasn't really anything else to talk about or discuss.

Idk about agreeing on it being barbarism of the highest order. I remember one or two mfers basically being 'meh' about it.

It's a genocide committed by the 64th motor brigade of russia, Laka. Don't believe any crap you see about it being staged or a false-flag operation for NATO

[Laka Strolistandiler]

A massive discussion has taken place regarding it. The UNSC had a whole meeting about it, Russia got booted from the Human Rights Council over it, the EU has passed a new round of sanctions over it, the US is in the process of passing a new Lend-Lease bill to aid Ukraine over it etc etc. It's also the talk of the town in pretty much every western media outlet.

There's just not much to say about it here on NSG, we all agreed it was barbarism of the highest order and so there wasn't really anything else to talk about or discuss.

Idk about agreeing on it being barbarism of the highest order. I remember one or two mfers basically being 'meh' about it.

It's a genocide comitted by the 64th motor brigade of russia, Laka. Don't believe any crap yousee about it being staged or a false-flag operation for NATO

I agree that this is indeed a massacre but back to the question- why did the local mayor not mention a word of it in his address?

[Antipatros]

What's the question? Why he wasn't talking about it on april 1st?

Yes- and why almost no discussion of this massacre supposedly rivaling Katyn has taken place, given the nearly 4-day delay between first publications and Russians leaving the area

4 day delay?

AFP reported on the conditions in Bucha on April 2nd. This is when I personally heard about it. Videos were floating around on Twitter on April 1st.

If you look at Google Trends data, you can see an increase in searches for Bucha on April 1st.

[Archinstinct]

Yes- and why almost no discussion of this massacre supposedly rivaling Katyn has taken place, given the nearly 4-day delay between first publications and Russians leaving the area

4 day delay?

AFP reported on the conditions in Bucha on April 2nd. This is when I personally heard about it. Videos were floating around on Twitter on April 1st.

If you look at Google Trends data, you can see an increase in searches for Bucha on April 1st.

He's in russia itself. Western news isn't so easy for them to access right now

[Arkandros]

Ignore list for you.

cyber-volunteer blocks USN submariner for linking notable anti-western publication the economist

take that putin

I mean I’m all fairness, I failed to spoon-feed information to back up my personal experience with trying to join the Ukrainian volunteer forces. Perhaps it is I, the one who provided the source of information and the path to acquire said information, that is in the wrong. Truly, by providing an opportunity to ask a primary source like the Ukrainian governmental embassy that has been handling the foreign legion volunteer applications, I have failed to provide the appropriate unthinking pro-Ukrainian propaganda demanded of me by NSG. Truly, I deserve this ignore. Thank you, oh great and wise Archinstinct, for your stunning and heroic defense of the Ukrainian homeland.
The entirety of this is, of course, sarcastic. Whether you block me or not is irrelevant to the fact that the contract I was presented was everything short of extortionist. Whether that’s changed or not since I inquired about a month ago, I couldn’t tell you, but I bet the Ukrainian embassy can.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

What's the question? Why he wasn't talking about it on april 1st?

Yes- and why almost no discussion of this massacre supposedly rivaling Katyn has taken place, given the nearly 4-day delay between first publications and Russians leaving the area

Kinda did, the entire Balkans is actually in agreement and is in the process of re-polarizing back into Yugoslavia.

[Archinstinct]

. Truly, I deserve this ignore. Thank you, oh great and wise Archinstinct, for your stunning and heroic defense of the Ukrainian homeland.
The entirety of this is, of course, sarcastic.

That's actually pretty funny.

I think you're morbidly wrong. I don't believe you did contact the embassy. You don't sign paperwork until you're over the border and in ukraine proper.

[Antipatros]

4 day delay?

AFP reported on the conditions in Bucha on April 2nd. This is when I personally heard about it. Videos were floating around on Twitter on April 1st.

If you look at Google Trends data, you can see an increase in searches for Bucha on April 1st.

He's in russia itself. Western news isn't so easy for them to access right now

From what I understand, the Russian withdrawal occurred sometime on March 30 (Russian claim) or early on March 31 (Ukrainian claim). Ukrainian forces entered the city on April 1.

I don't know how they're coming up with this "it was 4 days until evidence began to appear" thing. It makes no sense.

[Kalaron]

. Truly, I deserve this ignore. Thank you, oh great and wise Archinstinct, for your stunning and heroic defense of the Ukrainian homeland.
The entirety of this is, of course, sarcastic.

That's actually pretty funny.

I think you're morbidly wrong. I don't believe you did contact the embassy. You don't sign paperwork until you're over the border and in ukraine proper.

I talked and watched, essentially in realtime, as he did. Like not even being rude but accusing him of being a liar is just silly.

[Antipatros]

There is also this:

Bucha killings: Satellite image of bodies site contradicts Russian claims (warning: images from Bucha, not highly graphic)

If you want direct access to the imagery from Maxar for cross-checking purposes, I'm pretty sure you need to buy it.

[Fahran]

An opportunity to break this fucking cycle of authoritarians taking over and claiming Rossiya irredenta! is an opportunity that must not go to waste. Again.

What cycle is this now? I get the impression that you fundamentally misunderstand Russian and, by extension, Soviet, history and how Russian/Soviet imperialism and aggression have functioned internally and within the context of broader geopolitics. History is often cyclical, but I would eschew the impulse to dive nose-first into aspirational Whig historiography. Especially when it has a steep cost. We can dash Russian ambitions to conquer Ukraine without igniting a nuclear apocalypse or engaging in regime change against the wishes of the Russian people and kingmakers.

[Fahran]

There is also this:

Bucha killings: Satellite image of bodies site contradicts Russian claims (warning: images from Bucha, not highly graphic)

If you want direct access to the imagery from Maxar for cross-checking purposes, I'm pretty sure you need to buy it.

Thank you for confirming this happened. I've read and heard enough about Bucha that I know I don't want to see the images.

[Fahran]

If Russia's genocide warrants expulsion from the UN then why not China's genocide? If Russia's illegal war warrants expulsion from the UN then why not America's many illegal wars? If the UN is to be treated as a good boy's club for nations that obey international law then there's going to be a lot of empty seats. That is the point being put to San Lumen. If your answer to that point is that Russia's crimes are more immoral than the crimes of other nations, then so noted.

I conceded that point earlier. In my initial reply to you, I believe.

Russia does hold the distinction of both pursuing an illegal war and engaging in genocide and other serious war crimes at the same time. China checks the genocide box. The United States, United Kingdom, and France check the war box, though I'd argue the circumstances are much more controversial in the case of the western powers, however ill-conceived an intervention in Iraq or Libya might have been.

I was mostly pointing out that we need to be cautious about moral equivalency here. The US, in particular, has a lot of blood on its hands, including the blood of innocent children, but the US isn't orienting its war efforts to effect the destruction of a nation - i.e. genocide. That hasn't really been the US modus operandi since the Indian Wars or its occupation of the Philippines to my knowledge.

That said, the removal of Russia, or any other power, from the UNSC is a pipe-dream. Just like an invasion and occupation of Russia, albeit somewhat less morally dubious.

[Sordhau]

If Ukraine gets their hands on any of the Bucha Massacre orchestrators I hope they do the right thing.

Two to the skull, six feet under, unmarked grave.

[Christian Confederation]

Yes- and why almost no discussion of this massacre supposedly rivaling Katyn has taken place, given the nearly 4-day delay between first publications and Russians leaving the area

Kinda did, the entire Balkans is actually in agreement and is in the process of re-polarizing back into Yugoslavia.

Bassed Yugoslav 2: EU Boogaloo

[Amleria]

Yes- and why almost no discussion of this massacre supposedly rivaling Katyn has taken place, given the nearly 4-day delay between first publications and Russians leaving the area

Kinda did, the entire Balkans is actually in agreement and is in the process of re-polarizing back into Yugoslavia.

Absolutely untrue.
Serbia will form it alone then?
Montenegro, Albania, N. Macedonia are NATO-members
Croatia, Bulgaria, Slovenia both EU and NATO.

[Archinstinct]

If Ukraine gets their hands on any of the Bucha Massacre orchestrators I hope they do the right thing.

Two to the skull, six feet under, unmarked grave.

You've made posts that others have called pro-russia.

[Archinstinct]

Yes- and why almost no discussion of this massacre supposedly rivaling Katyn has taken place, given the nearly 4-day delay between first publications and Russians leaving the area

The answer to that is you probably got misinformation.