Ukrainian War Thread III: The Horrors

[Berlin and Hanover]

It is scary that a war that was supposed to be quick, it's taken this long. Don't get me wrong I support Ukraine and I will still support them and wish for them to hold back the Russians. But because of the longevity of the war, it is taking a heavy toll on economic turmoil, and civilian casualties (War crimes if we want to be more specific). As time goes on the numbers of deads will increase, both Ukrainian and Russian economies will take a big hit and will be unable to recover in a short period of time (Say, 10 years), while in the long term Ukraine at that point would be receiving enough economic support to keep them alive.

I just hope this war ends soon

Yeah i hope this war ends soon its been like almost 2 months of this.

As much as I want the war to end as soon as possible, I also know that other authoritarian states are watching what happens in Ukraine, namely China, who could in theory invade Taiwan in the next few years. Russia and other authoritarian states need to be taught a lesson, in which they shouldn't invade their neighbors on the brutal magnitude of this invasion.

[Untecna]

New thread smell.

[Risottia]

Exactly. This sort of genocidal rhetoric coming from Russian state media shows that the plan all along is the complete genocide of the Ukrainian nation.

This is why I want to see every last one of those rabid dogs committing atrocities in Ukraine put down: because Ukrainians will never know peace so long as these genocidaires continue to live normal lives as though they haven't partook in a genocide.

Im just thinking now, there was ever any way that russia would have not become this monster that it is today after the ussr's colapse?

Maybe if the Russian Army hadn't sided with Eltin's 1993 coup and had protected the Parliament instead of shelling it.
Eltsin's kleptocracy is what paved the way for the rise of Putin.

[Nova Catania]

I’ll post something with a little more substance after I watch the 6:30 news. For now I’m just reading.

[Port Caverton]

Have they announced more sanctions yet?

[Latvijas Otra Republika]

Well that is just horrible now, de-ukranization? For me, that looks like something hitler would have said, like "de-polonization".

Exactly. This sort of genocidal rhetoric coming from Russian state media shows that the plan all along is the complete genocide of the Ukrainian nation.

This is why I want to see every last one of those rabid dogs committing atrocities in Ukraine put down: because Ukrainians will never know peace so long as these genocidaires continue to live normal lives as though they haven't partook in a genocide.

That is true.
Russian history books never acknowledge the brutal genocides, occupations, rapes, mass killings, destruction and oppression that have occurred under Imperial Russia and the USSR. Their media and institutions never acknowledges basic historical facts, in fact they justify them. This is why we've had war in Transnistria, Georgia, Donbas, Ukraine. That's why we've seen so much support for horrendous suppression of opposition and even gays, no historical lessons have been learned. We should do to Russia what we did to Germany in 1945.

[Latvijas Otra Republika]

Exactly. This sort of genocidal rhetoric coming from Russian state media shows that the plan all along is the complete genocide of the Ukrainian nation.

This is why I want to see every last one of those rabid dogs committing atrocities in Ukraine put down: because Ukrainians will never know peace so long as these genocidaires continue to live normal lives as though they haven't partook in a genocide.

Im just thinking now, there was ever any way that russia would have not become this monster that it is today after the ussr's colapse?

USSR was the monster even under Gorbachev

[Risottia]

"It can't be genocide, Ukrainians are Russians and you cannot commit genocide again your own people!"

...is probably what Russian denialists are already telling themselves and others about this.

Nah, the official position of the Kremlin, as per Lavrov, is that "the West staged this, bad bad West".

Now, I won't say "this is definitely a genocide ordered by Putin" until I see a court establish it with very convincing evidence... but the clues for, at the very least, war crimes and crimes against humanity are incredibly strong. People don't fight with their hands tied behind their backs; and here we have evidence of people tied up and killed.
And I'm not even talking "waging a war of aggression", as that's plain and irrefutable. But we know pretty well, as does Putin, that he and his lackeys aren't going to pay for this, ever.

[The H Corporation]

"It can't be genocide, Ukrainians are Russians and you cannot commit genocide again your own people!"

...is probably what Russian denialists are already telling themselves and others about this.

Nah, the official position of the Kremlin, as per Lavrov, is that "the West staged this, bad bad West". :roll:

Now, I won't say "this is definitely a genocide ordered by Putin" until I see a court establish it with very convincing evidence... but the clues for, at the very least, war crimes and crimes against humanity are incredibly strong. People don't fight with their hands tied behind their backs; and here we have evidence of people tied up and killed.
And I'm not even talking "waging a war of aggression", as that's plain and irrefutable. But we know pretty well, as does Putin, that he and his lackeys aren't going to pay for this, ever.

Many people tend to get set free from any consequences. Guess the only people we might get to judge are captured generals, officers, soldiers but never those on top of them. The ones moving the strings, get to enjoy the peace in their own luxury homes and privileges at the expense of others

[Risottia]

Nah, the official position of the Kremlin, as per Lavrov, is that "the West staged this, bad bad West".

Now, I won't say "this is definitely a genocide ordered by Putin" until I see a court establish it with very convincing evidence... but the clues for, at the very least, war crimes and crimes against humanity are incredibly strong. People don't fight with their hands tied behind their backs; and here we have evidence of people tied up and killed.
And I'm not even talking "waging a war of aggression", as that's plain and irrefutable. But we know pretty well, as does Putin, that he and his lackeys aren't going to pay for this, ever.

Many people tend to get set free from any consequences. Guess the only people we might get to judge are captured generals, officers, soldiers but never those on top of them. The ones moving the strings, get to enjoy the peace in their own luxury homes and privileges at the expense of others

We will never get to see them judged by an international tribunal as Ukraine hasn't ratified the ICC treatises, and Russia withdrew its signature.
A special court would have to be authorised by the Security Council. So, no luck.

[Diarcesia]

Exactly. This sort of genocidal rhetoric coming from Russian state media shows that the plan all along is the complete genocide of the Ukrainian nation.

This is why I want to see every last one of those rabid dogs committing atrocities in Ukraine put down: because Ukrainians will never know peace so long as these genocidaires continue to live normal lives as though they haven't partook in a genocide.

Im just thinking now, there was ever any way that russia would have not become this monster that it is today after the ussr's colapse?

Poland keeps Moscow after taking it in 1612, maybe?

[The H Corporation]

Many people tend to get set free from any consequences. Guess the only people we might get to judge are captured generals, officers, soldiers but never those on top of them. The ones moving the strings, get to enjoy the peace in their own luxury homes and privileges at the expense of others

We will never get to see them judged by an international tribunal as Ukraine hasn't ratified the ICC treatises, and Russia withdrew its signature.
A special court would have to be authorised by the Security Council. So, no luck.

That sucks a lot

[The Jamesian Republic]

Yeah i hope this war ends soon its been like almost 2 months of this.

As much as I want the war to end as soon as possible, I also know that other authoritarian states are watching what happens in Ukraine, namely China, who could in theory invade Taiwan in the next few years. Russia and other authoritarian states need to be taught a lesson, in which they shouldn't invade their neighbors on the brutal magnitude of this invasion.

This.

[The Two Jerseys]

I didn't think of it at the time, but Russia blaming Azov/the CIA/Ukrainian artillery for all those dead civilians sounds just like this...

[The Lone Alliance]

I agree that we should definitely avoid a situation where Russia commits a genocide in Ukraine. So I guess the question is, how to we end the war as quickly as possible in a way that has Ukraine in a good enough position to prevent that from happening?

By killing enough Russians that they can't continue to prosecute the war. That's the only way this stops, Russia is too stubborn and ego centric to stop because to them it's their divine right to do whatever the fuck they want to Ukraine.

They are like the abusive boyfriend who goes "You belong to me and I'll beat you until you love me again".

[Maichuko]

I think that Ukraine might lose most of Luhansk and Mariupol, but it's gonna be tough for the Russians to grab the rest of Donetsk now that Ukraine is free to divert troops from the Kyiv front. I'm still shocked that front collapsed.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

It is scary that a war that was supposed to be quick, it's taken this long. Don't get me wrong I support Ukraine and I will still support them and wish for them to hold back the Russians. But because of the longevity of the war, it is taking a heavy toll on economic turmoil, and civilian casualties (War crimes if we want to be more specific). As time goes on the numbers of deads will increase, both Ukrainian and Russian economies will take a big hit and will be unable to recover in a short period of time (Say, 10 years), while in the long term Ukraine at that point would be receiving enough economic support to keep them alive.

I just hope this war ends soon

A total war between America and Russia would've been over several times over by now.

[The Lone Alliance]

The Russian Empire is no longer merely "abusive" or "jealous" or simply harassing their neighbours.
They are deep in psychopathic genocidist territory. And it makes me all the much more depressed that we are still dealing with this shit in 2022.
You thought Abu Ghraib was bad. Here we have Russian state organs talking about a "Final Solution to the Ukrainian Problem".

To go back to some conclusions:
Bucha was planned. Bucha was deliberate. And we're going to see more of this shit as Ukraine throws these Nazis out of their country.

The execution of all the fighting age males even make a sick tactical sense, with Ukraine having general mobilization, all of those men would be conscripted once Ukraine takes the area over, which means eventually Russia will have to fight against those men if the war continues, and since the end goal of the Russian occupation is the complete destruction of the "Nazi" Ukrainian army, they simply pre-emptively killed these future Ukrainian soldiers. In the sick twisted logic of Russia, because these men are at least willing to fight, they're already Nazis and thus it's okay to kill them.

[Vistulange]

"It can't be genocide, Ukrainians are Russians and you cannot commit genocide again your own people!"

...is probably what Russian denialists are already telling themselves and others about this.

You joke, Balt, but I would not be surprised if this or some variant of this comes to pass in the coming weeks or months.

[Tarsonis]

I think that Ukraine might lose most of Luhansk and Mariupol, but it's gonna be tough for the Russians to grab the rest of Donetsk now that Ukraine is free to divert troops from the Kyiv front. I'm still shocked that front collapsed.

it was only a matter of time.

[The Nihilistic view]

It's fine, you just have a modern equivalent to the Nuremberg trials. You don't need ICC membership to hold these sorts of people to account the moral justification is more than enough. It's been done before and it can be done again.

The ICC method is a nonsensical idea anyway because obviously those that may decide to commit such crimes at a command level are not going to sign and ratify such treaties or if previously members will withdraw from them. As Russia has, therefore when it comes to such heinous crimes there is always the moral justification to hold such crimes to account regardless. And more than that it is imperative that resolve to do so is signalled by the civilised nations of the world.

[Vikanias]

Here we see the Russian chasing a lone Ukrainian, she has strayed from her pack to feed on some wheat. The Russian is big and mostly relies on ambush tactics to get its prey. The Ukrainian can not run for much longer, it needs help. The Belarusian jumps out of the tall grass to strike at the Ukrainian, a Belarusian often participated in hunts with the Russian since it is too small and weak to hunt large prey. Suddenly a Bayraktar comes out of nowhere and scares off the Russian… for now.

-Ukraine c. April 4th 2022

For anyone reading please read in the voice of David Attenborough.

[Hamidiye]

I didn't think of it at the time, but Russia blaming Azov/the CIA/Ukrainian artillery for all those dead civilians sounds just like this...

Remember what she did next though...

[Christian Confederation]

by Hispida » Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:48 am

Christian Confederation wrote:

Arpasia wrote:If I have to ask, do you think that the situation will develop in favor of Ukraine or Russia?


Assuming one of the several ongoing peace talks goes well military it would be a draw with Ukraine possibly doing better in the K-D ratio. Russia would withdraw but more than likely get there goal of Donbas/ Crimea. Ukraine Survives, Russia gained what they wanted but at a heavy cost and Doesn't do much invading for several years as they lick there wounds.


i think this is the best case scenario for both parties, honestly. russia gains at least de facto control over donbass and luhansk and maybe international recognition of their annexation of crimea while ukraine gets to save face by saying "we did it! we stopped the russians!" and maybe get entrance into the EU.

Yeah more than likely the Russians get Crimea, Donbas, and other Eastern Ukrainian parts along with guarantees Ukraine won't Dam the River providing Ukraine with Fresh Water. Recognition of the new borders and sanctions dropped.
Ukraine would probably get reparations and a DMZ. UN Peacekeepers, Security Guarantees from East and West along with Neutrality.

[New Baltenstein]

I didn't think of it at the time, but Russia blaming Azov/the CIA/Ukrainian artillery for all those dead civilians sounds just like this...

Actually, Russian authorities - especially the likes of Lavrov - are way, way less emotional or enthusiastic about their nonstop BS. Lavrov, in particular, reminds me more of a cynical has-been stand-up comedian well past his prime who is secretly totally sick of both his job and his life but just keeps doing it to pay the prostitutes.

*Russian military commits atrocity*

Lavrov (in a bored, tired voice): That wasn't us. The Russian military hasn't hurt anyone. In fact, Russia has never hurt anyone during its entire history. The culprits were...

*Grabs inside his jacket with a weary gesture, checks notes, sighs*

Space Lizards. Yes, the Ukrainian liberal Homo Nazis are in league with Space Lizards.

*takes of glasses, rubs nose bridge, sighs again*

We...we have solid evidence of this. The CIA is covering it all up but Russia will show the truth to everyone. That is all.

*puts notes back with a defeated look on his face*