Ukrainian War Thread III: The Horrors

[The North Polish Union]

Generally the less traitors in your country during war the better.

The British not only banned the Fascist Party but arrested Mosely when WW2 broke out. Is that "authoritarian consolidation", or does that not count because that's a right wing traitor?

except many of the "traitors" you delineate weren't traitors at all but opposed russia, zelensky's just banning left-wing parties now

also as per definition, the banning of the BUF and arrest of Mosley, while good things, were authoritarian consolidation as well because the coalition government needed to amount as much authority as possible in order to, y'know, win the war. the issue here is that i don't think zelensky, if his extensive track record is anything to go by, will lift the ban afterwards

Communism/leftism in a modern central/eastern European context is in almost all cases simply Russophilia and third-columnism thinly veiled under the shoddy veneer of Soviet nostalgia.

The KPRF of Russia itself is probably the most stellar example of this. Somewhat further west, members of these parties will complain about how NATO (and sometimes the EU even) is an imperialist alliance which should be destroyed while lusting for a return for the Warsaw Pact, and will often argue positions on the basis of what they believe Russian interests are despite not being Russian themselves.

One would hope that at least west of the former Iron Curtain, the communists would be able to avoid these pitfalls never having been under the Russian yoke, but sadly this is what the Americans came up with.

Ban them all, nothing of value will be lost..

[Deblar]

One would hope that at least west of the former Iron Curtain, the communists would be able to avoid these pitfalls never having been under the Russian yoke, but sadly this is what the Americans came up with.

"Holy Jesus. What is that? WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?!"

[Diarcesia]

One would hope that at least west of the former Iron Curtain, the communists would be able to avoid these pitfalls never having been under the Russian yoke, but sadly this is what the Americans came up with.

"Holy Jesus. What is that? WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?!"

McCarthy in shambles.

[Tarsonis]

except many of the "traitors" you delineate weren't traitors at all but opposed russia, zelensky's just banning left-wing parties now

also as per definition, the banning of the BUF and arrest of Mosley, while good things, were authoritarian consolidation as well because the coalition government needed to amount as much authority as possible in order to, y'know, win the war. the issue here is that i don't think zelensky, if his extensive track record is anything to go by, will lift the ban afterwards

Communism/leftism in a modern central/eastern European context is in almost all cases simply Russophilia and third-columnism thinly veiled under the shoddy veneer of Soviet nostalgia.

The KPRF of Russia itself is probably the most stellar example of this. Somewhat further west, members of these parties will complain about how NATO (and sometimes the EU even) is an imperialist alliance which should be destroyed while lusting for a return for the Warsaw Pact, and will often argue positions on the basis of what they believe Russian interests are despite not being Russian themselves.

One would hope that at least west of the former Iron Curtain, the communists would be able to avoid these pitfalls never having been under the Russian yoke, but sadly this is what the Americans came up with.

Ban them all, nothing of value will be lost..

"historic moment"

[Independent Cossack Ukraine]

One would hope that at least west of the former Iron Curtain, the communists would be able to avoid these pitfalls never having been under the Russian yoke, but sadly this is what the Americans came up with.

"Holy Jesus. What is that? WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?!"

Further proof many modern Communists can just be called "Red Fascists."
I swear many of them know so little about what they support that the only Russian word they know is "Tovarishch."

[HISPIDA]

One would hope that at least west of the former Iron Curtain, the communists would be able to avoid these pitfalls never having been under the Russian yoke, but sadly this is what the Americans came up with.

"Holy Jesus. What is that? WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?!"

"Who said that? WHO THE FUCK SAID THAT?"

[Washington Resistance Army]

Very unconfirmed reports rn but there's some videos floating around Twitter showing illumination flares and such things active on what appears to be the Russian side of the border near Belgorod.

[The Two Jerseys]

Very unconfirmed reports rn but there's some videos floating around Twitter showing illumination flares and such things active on what appears to be the Russian side of the border near Belgorod.

I'll give 25-1 that Ivan just forgot to bring portable lighting to the site...

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

but sadly this is what the Americans came up with.

I’ve seen this image before, but it’s still just as confusing, if not more so.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Very unconfirmed reports rn but there's some videos floating around Twitter showing illumination flares and such things active on what appears to be the Russian side of the border near Belgorod.

I'll give 25-1 that Ivan just forgot to bring portable lighting to the site...

Or the conscripts can't figure out how to work their flashlights.. or lanterns more likely based upon the rest of their laughably old gear.

[Vistulange]

One would hope that at least west of the former Iron Curtain, the communists would be able to avoid these pitfalls never having been under the Russian yoke, but sadly this is what the Americans came up with.

America, you never fucking fail to amaze me. That's an abomination if I've seen one.

[Tarsonis]

Been going through that guys twitter and the so called CPI. They're "Patriotic Socialists" as they call themselves. I wonder where I've heard that line before....

[Hukhalia]

Been going through that guys twitter and the so called CPI. They're "Patriotic Socialists" as they call themselves. I wonder where I've heard that line before....

Maupin is well known among MLs for being social-chauvinist scum. Please don't take his word to be that of all of us, please! :D

[Tarsonis]

Been going through that guys twitter and the so called CPI. They're "Patriotic Socialists" as they call themselves. I wonder where I've heard that line before....

Maupin is well known among MLs for being social-chauvinist scum. Please don't take his word to be that of all of us, please!

Nazis calling themselves Patriotic Socialists is like Comcast changing its name to Xfinity and hoping people forget

[Hukhalia]

Maupin is well known among MLs for being social-chauvinist scum. Please don't take his word to be that of all of us, please!

Nazis calling themselves Patriotic Socialists is like Comcast changing its name to Xfinity and hoping people forget

tbf patsocs don't derive themselves from nazism but instead really vulgar post-soviet marxism-leninism; the same pitfalls are there though

[Tarsonis]

Nazis calling themselves Patriotic Socialists is like Comcast changing its name to Xfinity and hoping people forget

tbf patsocs don't derive themselves from nazism but instead really vulgar post-soviet marxism-leninism; the same pitfalls are there though

a butthole by an other name smells just as rancid

[Hukhalia]

tbf patsocs don't derive themselves from nazism but instead really vulgar post-soviet marxism-leninism; the same pitfalls are there though

a butthole by an other name smells just as rancid

browderites and their consequences have been a disaster for the ICM

[Independent Cossack Ukraine]

I find it really upsetting how Russia disproportionately sends indigenous Siberian peoples to their deaths in Ukraine. Look up the deaths per capita based on Russian federal subject. Buryatia is the highest by far. Altai, North Ossetia, and Chukotka are all high too. Seems Russia views their ethnic minorities so poorly they use them as cannon fodder. Racism is a massive problem in Russia.

[Fahran]

One would hope that at least west of the former Iron Curtain, the communists would be able to avoid these pitfalls never having been under the Russian yoke, but sadly this is what the Americans came up with.

"Holy Jesus. What is that? WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?!"

A bunch of fifth columnists.

[Fahran]

I find it really upsetting how Russia disproportionately sends indigenous Siberian peoples to their deaths in Ukraine. Look up the deaths per capita based on Russian federal subject. Buryatia is the highest by far. Altai, North Ossetia, and Chukotka are all high too. Seems Russia views their ethnic minorities so poorly they use them as cannon fodder. Racism is a massive problem in Russia.

Buryatia is actually Russian majority (~66%) at this point as a result of constant settlement by Russians in the region. Buryats make up only around 30% of the population. Russians also make up 52% of Altai, with the Altai making up 42% of the population. Chutotka is 52% Russian. North Ossetia seems to actually be the exception to the rule - and Ossetians make up a plurality of the republic (~50%). Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if ethnic minorities serve at higher per capita rates than ethnic Russians given a combination of lack of regional economic opportunity and, for Turks and Caucasians, a pronounced military tradition somewhat comparable to that of the American South. I know a lot of Kazakhs and other Turks gained distinction and were decorated during the Great Patriotic War as an example.

[Vistulange]

I find it really upsetting how Russia disproportionately sends indigenous Siberian peoples to their deaths in Ukraine. Look up the deaths per capita based on Russian federal subject. Buryatia is the highest by far. Altai, North Ossetia, and Chukotka are all high too. Seems Russia views their ethnic minorities so poorly they use them as cannon fodder. Racism is a massive problem in Russia.

Buryatia is actually Russian majority (~66%) at this point as a result of constant settlement by Russians in the region. Buryats make up only around 30% of the population. Russians also make up 52% of Altai, with the Altai making up 42% of the population. Chutotka is 52% Russian. North Ossetia seems to actually be the exception to the rule - and Ossetians make up a plurality of the republic (~50%). Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if ethnic minorities serve at higher per capita rates than ethnic Russians given a combination of lack of regional economic opportunity and, for Turks and Caucasians, a pronounced military tradition somewhat comparable to that of the American South. I know a lot of Kazakhs and other Turks gained distinction and were decorated during the Great Patriotic War as an example.

You mean Turkic peoples, not Turks. I'd say there's a bit of a difference.

[Evil Wolf]

"Holy Jesus. What is that? WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?!"

McCarthy in shambles.

American Socialism actually had a pretty long and distinctly American history even before the Soviet Union and has a lot of unique traditions and events to pull from.

Then you got the Tankies who think Glorious Soviet Union is best, and (Capitalist, Kleptocratic, Religiously Conservative) Russia is new Glorious Soviet Union, so in order to be a good Communist or Socialist, you must do everything Russia wants!

This is very much not the way.

You mean Turkic peoples, not Turks. I'd say there's a bit of a difference.

Yes, but also no.

[Vistulange]

McCarthy in shambles.

American Socialism actually had a pretty long and distinctly American history even before the Soviet Union and has a lot of unique traditions and events to pull from.

Then you got the Tankies who think Glorious Soviet Union is best, and (Capitalist, Kleptocratic, Religiously Conservative) Russia is new Glorious Soviet Union, so in order to be a good Communist or Socialist, you must do everything Russia wants!

This is very much not the way.

You mean Turkic peoples, not Turks. I'd say there's a bit of a difference.

Yes, but also no.

Yes, but also yes—Pan-Turkism isn't a mainstream ideology anywhere, nowadays. It died—thankfully—with the CUP's demise nearly a century ago.

[Evil Wolf]

Yes, but also yes—Pan-Turkism isn't a mainstream ideology anywhere, nowadays. It died—thankfully—with the CUP's demise nearly a century ago.

The Bozkurtlar in Turkey have an estimated 1.9 million supporters and they're very much a Pan-Turkist.

Also their followers get very confused by my region's flag, leading more than a few amusing exchanges.

[Vistulange]

Yes, but also yes—Pan-Turkism isn't a mainstream ideology anywhere, nowadays. It died—thankfully—with the CUP's demise nearly a century ago.

The Bozkurtlar in Turkey have an estimated 1.9 million supporters and they're very much a Pan-Turkist.

Also their followers get very confused by my region's flag, leading more than a few amusing exchanges.

1.9 million isn't high considering Turkey has a population of about 82 million. Numbers aside, they are political nobodies. Nobody cares about their politics, and even the party that's ultranationalist, the MHP, hasn't done the pan-Turanism/pan-Turkism thing since the mid-1990's (and even then it was very mild and quiet), and that's when they were trying to capitalise on the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

Ultranationalism in the form of pan-Turkism and/or pan-Turanism is not a force in Turkish politics, period. Ultranationalism still exists, but the whole idea of pan-Turkishness is only a fringe, held by minorities who aren't even loud. Seriously, the idea is simply not talked about in Turkish politics, even within the opposition. And I really don't think it's a thing in Central Asian republics, either—that's the whole reason the ideology sort of fizzled out, since the other Turkic republics weren't considering themselves as fraternal with Turkey as our nutjobs would have it.

The article linked to on the Wikipedia page also has some questionable methods. I remember that Metropoll report, but I'd have to dig deeper into it and actually find the report and look through it which I can't do because it was released only to Metropoll subscribers, but I'm very sceptical if they literally asked people "are you a Grey Wolf", because that's...not a very good question to ask. Anyway, not the thread for it. Nowhere near the thread for it.

So basically, I insist: Turkic peoples, not Turks.

P.S: The colloquial name for them isn't "Bozkurtlar"—who the fuck calls them that these days? It's archaic—but instead "Idealists" (Ülkücüler) but as I've mentioned, they've undergone a lot, lot of ideological dilution.

/threadjack