Ukrainian War Thread III: The Horrors

[Kerwa]

What?

He wants to commit genocide by population transfer.

It sort of exists already. Turns our Russia isn’t that bad and the sort of western men that go for it are spergy potatoes so it’s not popular.

[Vistulange]

What?

He wants to commit genocide by population transfer.

Apologies, it wasn't a "what" of inquiry. It was a shorthand for "what the fuck?".

[Thomasi]

What?

He wants to commit genocide by population transfer.

It's not genocide if they willingly take the offer and leave that hell hole of a country.

[Washington Resistance Army]

UKMOD update for July 28th. Ukraine's Ministry of Defense also tweeted and outright told the Russians to retreat from Kherson or they're going to be destroyed, going to be interesting to see how this goes.

[Picairn]

The best way we could really hinder Russia's ability to keep being an agressor would be to set up a system in North America and Europe to allow Russian women ages 18-40 to get citizenship if they marry a western man removing as much of their child baring aged woman as possible so that they face massive population decline.

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 already did this. You can get a green card by marrying an American citizen. Doesn't seem to work quickly enough.

[The Huskar Social Union]

UKMOD update for July 28th. Ukraine's Ministry of Defense also tweeted and outright told the Russians to retreat from Kherson or they're going to be destroyed, going to be interesting to see how this goes.

If the Ukrainians actually manage to pull off a successful counter attack and retake Kherson that would be amazing. Still sceptical though but i guess we will have to wait and see

[Washington Resistance Army]

UKMOD update for July 28th. Ukraine's Ministry of Defense also tweeted and outright told the Russians to retreat from Kherson or they're going to be destroyed, going to be interesting to see how this goes.

If the Ukrainians actually manage to pull off a successful counter attack and retake Kherson that would be amazing. Still sceptical though but i guess we will have to wait and see

The bridge being out of service for military units makes it a lot more plausible imo. The only other river crossing the Russians have is a good few dozen miles down the river iirc, they'd have to pontoon if they wanted immediate reinforcements and we know how well that's gone thus far.

[Ifreann]

He wants to commit genocide by population transfer.

It's not genocide if they willingly take the offer and leave that hell hole of a country.

The definition of the crime of genocide is quite clear that attempting to destroy a group, in whole or in part, by bringing about conditions so as to prevent births among the group is genocide.

[Continental Free States]

It's not genocide if they willingly take the offer and leave that hell hole of a country.

The definition of the crime of genocide is quite clear that attempting to destroy a group, in whole or in part, by bringing about conditions so as to prevent births among the group is genocide.

What the hell are you talking about lmao

[Ifreann]

The definition of the crime of genocide is quite clear that attempting to destroy a group, in whole or in part, by bringing about conditions so as to prevent births among the group is genocide.

What the hell are you talking about lmao

Genocide, obviously.

[The Two Jerseys]

It's not genocide if they willingly take the offer and leave that hell hole of a country.

The definition of the crime of genocide is quite clear that attempting to destroy a group, in whole or in part, by bringing about conditions so as to prevent births among the group is genocide.

It also doesn't help when your proposal states that your intent is to weaken their country by reducing their birth rate...

[Picairn]

Incentivizing people to leave their country and become your citizens doesn't exactly qualify as a genocide, otherwise all Western countries would be on trial for attempting genocide. Thomasi's intent is dumb and evil (not to mention unrealistic), but the practice itself isn't controversial. *cough* Marriage-based green cards *cough*

[Ifreann]

Incentivizing people to leave their country and become your citizens doesn't exactly qualify as a genocide, otherwise all Western countries would be on trial for attempting genocide. Thomasi's intent is dumb and evil (not to mention unrealistic), but the practice itself isn't controversial. *cough* Marriage-based green cards *cough*

The critical element is that the very stupid proposal is clearly intended to destroy a national group, Russians, in whole or in part, by imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

[Perikuresu]

Not to troll or flame here, but most of Thomasi's takes on this threads makes me believe that he's trying too hard to take the piss or he just hasn't thunk his ideas through

[Continental Free States]

Incentivizing people to leave their country and become your citizens doesn't exactly qualify as a genocide, otherwise all Western countries would be on trial for attempting genocide. Thomasi's intent is dumb and evil (not to mention unrealistic), but the practice itself isn't controversial. *cough* Marriage-based green cards *cough*

The critical element is that the very stupid proposal is clearly intended to destroy a national group, Russians, in whole or in part, by imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

which isn't genocide seeing as genocide requires some level of violent action or use of force on the side of the genocidaire, and immigration incentives are neither. Still a stupid thing to be shilling for obviously.

[Ifreann]

The critical element is that the very stupid proposal is clearly intended to destroy a national group, Russians, in whole or in part, by imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

which isn't genocide seeing as genocide requires some level of violent action or use of force on the side of the genocidaire, and immigration incentives are neither. Still a stupid thing to be shilling for obviously.

The UN definition of the crime of genocide does not require violent action.

[El Lazaro]

Incentivizing people to leave their country and become your citizens doesn't exactly qualify as a genocide, otherwise all Western countries would be on trial for attempting genocide. Thomasi's intent is dumb and evil (not to mention unrealistic), but the practice itself isn't controversial. *cough* Marriage-based green cards *cough*

The critical element is that the very stupid proposal is clearly intended to destroy a national group, Russians, in whole or in part, by imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

Genocide is coercive. Choosing to not reproduce isn’t coerced. But it’s still dumb to suggest the existence of a Russian nation is inherently bad, or that a population crisis well into the future would make Putin back down. I think it’s more likely he wants “hot Russian singles in [his] area” and is disguising it as a serious policy.

[Ifreann]

The critical element is that the very stupid proposal is clearly intended to destroy a national group, Russians, in whole or in part, by imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

Genocide is coercive. Choosing to not reproduce isn’t coerced. But it’s still dumb to suggest the existence of a Russian nation is inherently bad, or that a population crisis well into the future would make Putin back down. I think it’s more likely he wants “hot Russian singles in [his] area” and is disguising it as a serious policy.

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
   
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
   
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
   
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
   
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[Picairn]

The critical element is that the very stupid proposal is clearly intended to destroy a national group, Russians, in whole or in part, by imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

You can argue marriage-based immigration is depriving local men of women to reproduce (which sounds incredibly sexist and totalitarian), but I don't see how the practice is genocide, though Thomasi's intent is.

[The North Polish Union]

Encouraging marriage outside of one's ethnic group isn't genocide. Any children are still at least half-Russian. Additionally, there's a thread still on the front page decrying the comments of Orbán about not wanting Hungarians to become mixed-race. If policies encouraging Russian women to marry non-Russians are genocide then we should really be celebrating Orbán for his commitment to preventing a genocide of Hungarians.

[Ifreann]

The critical element is that the very stupid proposal is clearly intended to destroy a national group, Russians, in whole or in part, by imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

You can argue marriage-based immigration is depriving local men of women to reproduce (which sounds incredibly sexist and totalitarian), but I don't see how the practice is genocide, though Thomasi's intent is.

Because of what I just said. The intent to destroy a national group in whole or in part. That being a key element of the crime of genocide. If you just kill people, that isn't genocide. If you kill people with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, that is genocide. If you accept Russian refugees, that isn't genocide. If you set out to remove as many women as possible from Russia so as to prevent births of Russians with intent to destroy Russia, in whole or in part, that is genocide.

---

Encouraging marriage outside of one's ethnic group isn't genocide. Any children are still at least half-Russian. Additionally, there's a thread still on the front page decrying the comments of Orbán about not wanting Hungarians to become mixed-race. If policies encouraging Russian women to marry non-Russians are genocide then we should really be celebrating Orbán for his commitment to preventing a genocide of Hungarians.

Is there something you people find confusing about the phrase "with intent to destroy, in whole or in part"?

[Sordhau]

>enter thread
>see yet another poster casually advocating for the depopulation of Russia
>they of course don't see this as genocide (as always)
>leave thread

[Tarsonis]

>enter thread
>see yet another poster casually advocating for the depopulation of Russia
>they of course don't see this as genocide (as always)
>leave thread

people are certainly Russian to conclusions without thinking them through.

[The North Polish Union]

Encouraging marriage outside of one's ethnic group isn't genocide. Any children are still at least half-Russian. Additionally, there's a thread still on the front page decrying the comments of Orbán about not wanting Hungarians to become mixed-race. If policies encouraging Russian women to marry non-Russians are genocide then we should really be celebrating Orbán for his commitment to preventing a genocide of Hungarians.

Is there something you people find confusing about the phrase "with intent to destroy, in whole or in part"?

Where's the destruction? If having a half-Russian child is destructive to Russians then having a half-Hungarian child is equally destructive to Hungarians and Orbán has been right this whole time.

[Khurkhogur]

Is there something you people find confusing about the phrase "with intent to destroy, in whole or in part"?

Where's the destruction? If having a half-Russian child is destructive to Russians then having a half-Hungarian child is equally destructive to Hungarians and Orbán has been right this whole time.

What Ifreann is saying is that the active policy of trying to depopulate a country to destroy an ethnic group (in part or as a whole) counts as genocide, even if it's done through non-violent means. I think that's debatable and Thomasi's idea is so delusional it doesn't even merit discussion, but I also think you're wilfully misunderstanding the point.