Ukrainian War Thread III: The Horrors

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

High income democracies are overwhelmingly supportive of Ukraine and are quite firmly embedded to the American international order.

If you happen to not like this international order, you probably want all those countries that aren’t high income democracies to grow stable and prosperous.

And not, say, collapsing into revolutions fuelled by food prices.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

High income democracies are overwhelmingly supportive of Ukraine and are quite firmly embedded to the American international order.

If you happen to not like this international order, you probably want all those countries that aren’t high income democracies to grow stable and prosperous.

And not, say, collapsing into revolutions fuelled by food prices.

Why would Russia or PRC, who are neck deep in exploitation want their victims to develop some stability and prosperity?

[Khurkhogur]

High income democracies are overwhelmingly supportive of Ukraine and are quite firmly embedded to the American international order.
If you happen to not like this international order, you probably want all those countries that aren’t high income democracies to grow stable and prosperous.
And not, say, collapsing into revolutions fuelled by food prices.

Well, no, not at all. Prosperous countries are happy with the status quo, countries happy with the status quo will support the current international order (which is organized around maintaining openness - something which benefits prosperous countries).
Countries that are unstable will cause migration crises (which in turn destabilize the West) and mess with the global capitalist system which the US relies on for its own stability. Instability has a knock-on effect that hurts the US most of all.
What is true about your point is that Russia wants nonaligned countries to become more independent from the international system so they can oppose it (which won't happen if they're unstable messes). So you're right about that.
But I think Russia's optimal strategy is to aim for chaos, not rally a bunch of countries to oppose the US. None of Russia's potential partners are strong or committed enough to actually do anything. Even China is only helping Russia purely on a mutual-interest basis, and they're openly hostile to the US (unlike Turkey or India).

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Self-declared Donetsk People's Republic to shut down Google

The leader of the self-declared Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) said access to Google will be shut down within the territory.

“We have decided to block Google on the territory of the DPR,” Denis Pushilin wrote on his official Telegram account Friday. “This is what you must do in any society with criminals: isolate them from other people.”

“If Google stops doing its criminal policy and returns to the mainstream of law, morality and common sense, there will be no obstacles for its work,” he added.

The leader of the so called DPR went on to accuse Google of being part of Ukrainian and Western propaganda efforts targeting Russians and Russian speakers.

“The inhuman propaganda of Ukraine and the West has long crossed all boundaries. There is a real persecution of Russians, the imposition of lies and disinformation,” he claimed. “At the forefront of the information technology is the Google search, which openly, on the orders of its curators from the US government, promotes terrorism and violence against all Russians, and especially the population of Donbas.”

Pushilin went on to say the move was designed to ensure the security and protection of the population of the Donbas and was made in consultation with leadership in Russia.

“The West and Ukraine are exerting unprecedented pressure on the Republic and creating threats to both physical and psychological security,” he claimed. “The purpose of this pressure is to intimidate the inhabitants of the Donetsk People's Republic, to break their spirit.”

Musk-boi, we need Starlink again.

[El Lazaro]

Self-declared Donetsk People's Republic to shut down Google

The leader of the self-declared Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) said access to Google will be shut down within the territory.

“We have decided to block Google on the territory of the DPR,” Denis Pushilin wrote on his official Telegram account Friday. “This is what you must do in any society with criminals: isolate them from other people.”

“If Google stops doing its criminal policy and returns to the mainstream of law, morality and common sense, there will be no obstacles for its work,” he added.

The leader of the so called DPR went on to accuse Google of being part of Ukrainian and Western propaganda efforts targeting Russians and Russian speakers.

“The inhuman propaganda of Ukraine and the West has long crossed all boundaries. There is a real persecution of Russians, the imposition of lies and disinformation,” he claimed. “At the forefront of the information technology is the Google search, which openly, on the orders of its curators from the US government, promotes terrorism and violence against all Russians, and especially the population of Donbas.”

Pushilin went on to say the move was designed to ensure the security and protection of the population of the Donbas and was made in consultation with leadership in Russia.

“The West and Ukraine are exerting unprecedented pressure on the Republic and creating threats to both physical and psychological security,” he claimed. “The purpose of this pressure is to intimidate the inhabitants of the Donetsk People's Republic, to break their spirit.”

Musk-boi, we need Starlink again.

That’s interesting. Russia itself has refrained from banning Google services entirely because some like YouTube are too popular, so Google Search and YouTube are some of the few remaining avenues of disseminating anti-Kremlin information (and they’ve definitely lauded themselves as such.) This might be a small scale test to see how much more the Kremlin can clamp down on Western media.

[Leocardia]

Sometimes I question the actual progress of war going on.

We are only exposed to Ukraine's side of reporting, which they want to keep telling us good news and it's progressing very well on their end. On the side note, Ukraine is begging every other day for more weapons to "keep up" with Russia.

But we've silenced RT News (Russia's side of the reporting). So when Ukraine is saying Russia's losing thousands of soldiers to the point that their own population is soon-to-be rebelling, the only mention that Ukraine says about them losing soldiers is "we're losing a few hundred men per day."

There are also no war journalists allowed in the battlefield. So no one else has any access to what is going on in the battlefield. We have to depend on Ukraine/Russia reporting.

So I feel like there is a cancel culture going on that Russia is actually winning the war. What if the casualties are equally as bad for both sides' armed forces, but Ukraine wants to deter the facts and that the Russians' war progress is that they're losing?

Assuming that Russia has lost tens of thousands of soldiers, that would mean that their entire ground forces have been demolished. There shouldn't be any Russian leverage in the war, yet Russia is making bigger demands that Ukraine cedes more territory and Russia still controls the natural gas that Europe solely needs coming winter.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Modern war uses up insane amounts of ammunition and equipment, this is known. Israel had its nukes to fall back on in case ammunition dried up. What will Ukraine do when that happens?
What if they stop being on America's back 24/7 and Congress goes "Maybe you don't need that C-5 loaded with MLRS rockets hmm..."

[Chan Island]

Sometimes I question the actual progress of war going on.

We are only exposed to Ukraine's side of reporting, which they want to keep telling us good news and it's progressing very well on their end. On the side note, Ukraine is begging every other day for more weapons to "keep up" with Russia.

But we've silenced RT News (Russia's side of the reporting). So when Ukraine is saying Russia's losing thousands of soldiers to the point that their own population is soon-to-be rebelling, the only mention that Ukraine says about them losing soldiers is "we're losing a few hundred men per day."

There are also no war journalists allowed in the battlefield. So no one else has any access to what is going on in the battlefield. We have to depend on Ukraine/Russia reporting.

So I feel like there is a cancel culture going on that Russia is actually winning the war. What if the casualties are equally as bad for both sides' armed forces, but Ukraine wants to deter the facts and that the Russians' war progress is that they're losing?

Assuming that Russia has lost tens of thousands of soldiers, that would mean that their entire ground forces have been demolished. There shouldn't be any Russian leverage in the war, yet Russia is making bigger demands that Ukraine cedes more territory and Russia still controls the natural gas that Europe solely needs coming winter.

A couple of things:

1) Whoever told you that reporters were not allowed in Ukraine? Or on the battlefields? There’s been ample of reporting from them, and plenty of correspondents out there risking their lives to bring us the news from the front- and a fair few have already paid the ultimate price for it. The last one I know of was a French journo killed in Luhansk oblast just on May 30th.

2) Plenty of places out there to get Russia’s reporting. Telegram, WhatsApp… and VPNs are your friend if you are desperate to read RT. Heck, even this very thread if you want it, more than enough folks here happy to spread Russia’s bullshit.

3) The difference between Russia and Ukraine losing soldiers is that for Russia, they are insisting it is a “special military operation” and that it nothing more than that. Only “volunteers” are going, and in that sense they are scraping the barrel - drill instructors, cops, retired soldiers and convicts have all been going to the front to fight. Surprise, relatively few people willingly sign up for merry adventures with the bombs.

Meanwhile, for Ukraine, this is a war of national survival, with a state of emergency and martial law declared. Every man in the country is in theory contributing to the war effort- around million are under arms right now. The Territorial Defence militias alone number in the hundreds of thousands.

This means that, in the short term, Ukraine has a favourable position in terms of raw numbers of soldiers they can send to somewhere relevant to the war. Of course, Russia could reverse that by declaring war on Ukraine, allowing for conscription, but for them not to have done so indicates it would have bad political consequences for them. While they are in the half-way house of a special military operation, Russia is very much not bringing their A-game to the war, and that includes manpower.

It’s a similar story for equipment. Russia is drawing on a vast stockpile of old Soviet shit to keep the war machine going, not because they want to, but because of serious problems with their defence industry. The government is hamstrung in mandating a war economy, however, because they are not officially at war. Ukraine meanwhile, has effectively outsourced their defence industry to the west. Factories in the US, Germany, Italy etc… are churning out as much as they can, as fast as they can, for Ukraine to use in their struggle for national survival.

4) Russia invaded Ukraine with over 150000 troops. 10s of thousands of casualties isn’t even half the invasion force. Of course, that still renders many units combat ineffective… and we are seeing a lot of evidence of that in the course of the war. For example, Russia is boasting about firing vast numbers of artillery shells at their enemies. But this is a sign of weakness- artillery demolishes everything, including the very things you presumably wanted to capture. You only resort to that tactic, if you cannot afford to take the risk of any of your troops getting shot back. Another sign is the territorial gains, which have been getting smaller and smaller as the war drags on, all secured at high cost in men and equipment. Look how much reporting there’s been on the battle of Severodonetsk recently… now remember how in March, the Russians merely capturing Severodonestsk was considered the best case scenario. And that’s ignoring the elephant in the room called the Russian withdrawals from Kiev and Kharkiv.

[Vistulange]

4) Russia invaded Ukraine with over 150000 troops. 10s of thousands of casualties isn’t even half the invasion force. Of course, that still renders many units combat ineffective… and we are seeing a lot of evidence of that in the course of the war. For example, Russia is boasting about firing vast numbers of artillery shells at their enemies. But this is a sign of weakness- artillery demolishes everything, including the very things you presumably wanted to capture. You only resort to that tactic, if you cannot afford to take the risk of any of your troops getting shot back. Another sign is the territorial gains, which have been getting smaller and smaller as the war drags on, all secured at high cost in men and equipment. Look how much reporting there’s been on the battle of Severodonetsk recently… now remember how in March, the Russians merely capturing Severodonestsk was considered the best case scenario. And that’s ignoring the elephant in the room called the Russian withdrawals from Kiev and Kharkiv.

I want to add onto this. War, unlike what modern media might have us believe—"manpower" numbers in Hearts of Iron IV comes to mind—is not a numbers game. You cannot simply take Ivan the driver and stick him in a radar operation post, or take Boris the kontraktniki and tell him that he's suddenly responsible for a S-400 battery. Soldiers are not the equivalents of each other.

The Russian Armed Forces, organised in BTGs as it is, is designed around fighting a war with NATO. This war is naturally assumed to be a total war, or at least, a war in which reserves will be called to duty and the gaps in units filled out. Without declaring an official war, these reserves are not filled, and crucial roles in these BTGs are left unfilled, because the blokes responsible for filling them out are, well, chilling at home. Or, more realistically, desperately being sought after to "kindly" sign contracts so that they can be deployed to invade Ukraine and kill more Ukrainians for glorious Mother Russia.

[Perikuresu]

According to the M16, "Russia will struggle to maintain its military campaign and Ukraine may be able to hit back", in a conference in Colorado, the head of M16 also said: "Our assessment is that the Russians will increasingly find it difficult to find manpower and materiel over the next few weeks", Apparently the pause will give Ukraine the opportunity to strike back.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

According to the M16, "Russia will struggle to maintain its military campaign and Ukraine may be able to hit back", in a conference in Colorado, the head of M16 also said: "Our assessment is that the Russians will increasingly find it difficult to find manpower and materiel over the next few weeks", Apparently the pause will give Ukraine the opportunity to strike back.

Don't you mean Mil Mi-6?

[Picairn]

But we've silenced RT News (Russia's side of the reporting). So when Ukraine is saying Russia's losing thousands of soldiers to the point that their own population is soon-to-be rebelling, the only mention that Ukraine says about them losing soldiers is "we're losing a few hundred men per day."

Even if you read Russian sources, there won't be any reliable numbers from them because the Russian MoD stopped publishing casualties long ago. The official count currently stands at about 1,300 casualties (LOL), and the publication of military casualties by private media is forbidden in Russia per a court ruling.

[Chan Island]

But we've silenced RT News (Russia's side of the reporting). So when Ukraine is saying Russia's losing thousands of soldiers to the point that their own population is soon-to-be rebelling, the only mention that Ukraine says about them losing soldiers is "we're losing a few hundred men per day."

Even if you read Russian sources, there won't be any reliable numbers from them because the Russian MoD stopped publishing casualties long ago. The official count currently stands at about 1,300 casualties (LOL), and the publication of military casualties by private media is forbidden in Russia per a court ruling.

Of course, you could also ask the separatists.

The Donetsk Peoples Republic has admitted to a 25% casualty rate in its armed forces. Which is both not surprising considering all the stories of enemy at the gates style tactics they've been young and also terribly high.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62276392
Lovely of the Muskovite regime to bombard the port they just promised to not harass for the purposes of smooth grain exports.

[Thomasi]

The Terrorist Gas Station to no ones surprise bombed the port city after signing the treaty to let the grain out.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The Terrorist Gas Station to no ones surprise bombed the port city after signing the treaty to let the grain out.

You know this shit is getting boring and I want to hear from the apologists what is achieved by bombarding Odessa 24 hours after signing a treaty saying "we wont". Which Ukrainian position was overcome? What military objectives were achieved?

[Perikuresu]

Moldova blocks Russian troop rotation in Transnistria

Transnistria's foreign minister says that it's committed to independence and possible reunification with Russia, and any possibility of cooperation ends due to Moldova getting EU candidacy status

[Nevertopia]

Man I hope Russia collapses like the USSR did. This war must be draining their finances brutally. There was a time when I sympathized with the Russian people in this conflict, that they were the victims of a corrupt leader, but as time goes on its clear to me that the Russian people are a reflection of their leader and their leader a reflection of them. I will not mourn when the full repercussions of the Russians' ignorance finally catches up to them.

[Continental Free States]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62276392
Lovely of the Muskovite regime to bombard the port they just promised to not harass for the purposes of smooth grain exports.

Literally not even a day after they make the promise. The paper used to write a treaty with the Russians is worth about as much as the paper used to sign an agreement with the Nazis was, if not even less.

[Picairn]

Moldova blocks Russian troop rotation in Transnistria

Transnistria's foreign minister says that it's committed to independence and possible reunification with Russia, and any possibility of cooperation ends due to Moldova getting EU candidacy status

Bro it sounds like a war in Moldova is brewing, and I don't like this at all.

[Thomasi]

Moldova blocks Russian troop rotation in Transnistria

Transnistria's foreign minister says that it's committed to independence and possible reunification with Russia, and any possibility of cooperation ends due to Moldova getting EU candidacy status

Not a smart move by Moldova they don't really have a military and would get crushed with in a day in The Terrorist Gas Station Transnistria did a full scale assault, Unless Romania bailed them out

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62276392
Lovely of the Muskovite regime to bombard the port they just promised to not harass for the purposes of smooth grain exports.

Literally not even a day after they make the promise. The paper used to write a treaty with the Russians is worth about as much as the paper used to sign an agreement with the Nazis was, if not even less.

Speaking of treaties with Nazis has the Russian Empire reimbursed Poland yet for the consequences of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?

[Thomasi]

Literally not even a day after they make the promise. The paper used to write a treaty with the Russians is worth about as much as the paper used to sign an agreement with the Nazis was, if not even less.

Speaking of treaties with Nazis has the Russian Empire reimbursed Poland yet for the consequences of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?

Germany did, they gave Poland the same amount of land that the USSR annexed from Poland

[Continental Free States]

Literally not even a day after they make the promise. The paper used to write a treaty with the Russians is worth about as much as the paper used to sign an agreement with the Nazis was, if not even less.

Speaking of treaties with Nazis has the Russian Empire reimbursed Poland yet for the consequences of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?

No. After the Nazis invaded them and up until the Korean War, everyone just forgot the fact they kept begging the Nazis to make it official and let them join the Axis for real, so obviously there was nothing to forgive or reimburse.

[Ifreann]

Man I hope Russia collapses like the USSR did. This war must be draining their finances brutally. There was a time when I sympathized with the Russian people in this conflict, that they were the victims of a corrupt leader, but as time goes on its clear to me that the Russian people are a reflection of their leader and their leader a reflection of them. I will not mourn when the full repercussions of the Russians' ignorance finally catches up to them.

I do not understand why your opinion of the Russian people has changed as you describe here.