Ukrainian War Thread III: The Horrors

[Luminesa]

Sadly it’s very obvious that Bucha happened. An entire town of people faking that level of agony and sorrow the way it has been told is a ridiculous notion spread by the FBS, who are desperate to clutch a narrative that Russia is doing nothing wrong.

[Diuhon]

An opportunity to break this fucking cycle of authoritarians taking over and claiming Rossiya irredenta! is an opportunity that must not go to waste. Again.

What cycle is this now? I get the impression that you fundamentally misunderstand Russian and, by extension, Soviet, history and how Russian/Soviet imperialism and aggression have functioned internally and within the context of broader geopolitics. History is often cyclical, but I would eschew the impulse to dive nose-first into aspirational Whig historiography. Especially when it has a steep cost. We can dash Russian ambitions to conquer Ukraine without igniting a nuclear apocalypse or engaging in regime change against the wishes of the Russian people and kingmakers.

As it stands, Russian support for Putin is at record highs in the wake of this invasion and subsequent sanctions, as is support for this euphemistic war. Thwarting Putin's ambitions in Ukraine and elsewhere will almost certainly upset that majority. So what? Why heed such a majority? Why hear from those who'd rationalize their own military taking aim at civilians? No, defying their wishes -- disempowering the entire train of thought that partially enabled the rise of authoritarians like Putin and eventually gave rise to this present "special operation" -- is the point of keeping Ukraine militarily ready now, and would be the point of any retaliatory invasion into Russia itself, to take out the authoritarians now (and again) giving orders from the Kremlin.

[Antipatros]

German Intelligence Intercepts Radio Traffic Discussing the Murder of Civilians

[Diuhon]

Sadly it’s very obvious that Bucha happened. An entire town of people faking that level of agony and sorrow the way it has been told is a ridiculous notion spread by the FBS, who are desperate to clutch a narrative that Russia is doing nothing wrong.

When your own state media touts that every Ukrainian is a passive Nazi for defying their murderous kin, something is fucking wrong.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Going back a few generations, my ancestry is Russian, so I obviously have nothing against Russians per se. However, if I had the ability, I would make myself Ukrainian without any regrets.

To me, blaming Putin's continuing popularity on his propaganda through control of the media is not a legitimate excuse. Russians have had more than enough time, before the recent crackdown on independent media, to know that Russian state-controlled media cannot be trusted.

No, the major explanation for Putin's popularity during his immoral war is Russian ethno-nationalism, not propaganda. In other words, it is not only Putin who should be faulted but the Russian Federation as a whole.

[Antipatros]

German Intelligence Intercepts Radio Traffic Discussing the Murder of Civilians

You may be wondering: How are they getting these messages?

Russian troops have been observed using off the shelf, civilian radios for communications.

Even when you do have secure radios with features like encryption, it's not too uncommon for usability and implementation problems to result in people transmitting sensitive traffic in the clear.

[Archinstinct]

Just dropping this here, Because we could all use a laugh these days:
https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/15 ... 9951855617

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Finland is applying for NATO next week apparently...

[Port Caverton]

Finland is applying for NATO next week apparently...

sorry for the old meme but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElVqAgy4w8

[Hispida]

Finland is applying for NATO next week apparently...

anyone got a translation?

[Ifreann]

Going back a few generations, my ancestry is Russian, so I obviously have nothing against Russians per se. However, if I had the ability, I would make myself Ukrainian without any regrets.

To me, blaming Putin's continuing popularity on his propaganda through control of the media is not a legitimate excuse. Russians have had more than enough time, before the recent crackdown on independent media, to know that Russian state-controlled media cannot be trusted.

No, the major explanation for Putin's popularity during his immoral war is Russian ethno-nationalism, not propaganda. In other words, it is not only Putin who should be faulted but the Russian Federation as a whole.

Tell us more about how the working class must be held responsible for the crimes of those who oppress and exploit them.

[Archinstinct]

Going back a few generations, my ancestry is Russian, so I obviously have nothing against Russians per se. However, if I had the ability, I would make myself Ukrainian without any regrets.

To me, blaming Putin's continuing popularity on his propaganda through control of the media is not a legitimate excuse. Russians have had more than enough time, before the recent crackdown on independent media, to know that Russian state-controlled media cannot be trusted.

No, the major explanation for Putin's popularity during his immoral war is Russian ethno-nationalism, not propaganda. In other words, it is not only Putin who should be faulted but the Russian Federation as a whole.

Tell us more about how the working class must be held responsible for the crimes of those who oppress and exploit them.

If one person kills another person for no good reason, that's called murder~

Except, the majority of the populace in Russia isn't actively fighting in ukraine. Why a majority of the russian federation should be faulted is their ethno-nationalism, is because they're supporting the killers and dehumanizing the Ukrainians. Basically blatant racism/xenophobia to justify genocide.

If i'm not mistaken, the term russians are using for the mere sight of something Ukrainian is 'khokval'. It's often the very first word out of their mouths, being spat like they're rabid attack dogs about to go berserk. It's quite amusing to see on recording of chat rooms. Doesn't matter the age, sex, gender - it's a common occurrence. People as young as 18 or as old as 70. Female, male - doesn't matter. They'll laugh, jeer, spit racist remarks. Every sign of hate.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Finland is applying for NATO next week apparently...

anyone got a translation?

Foreign Minister Haavisto: NATO member countries have offered Finland security assistance during the application period

Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto says that the timetable for a Finnish NATO application will be clear within the next few weeks. Iltalehti, for his part, reveals that an application will be approved in early May.

Haavisto said at the NATO countries 'foreign ministers' meeting today that it will not be long before information is given on how Finland will respond to a NATO application. According to the news agency Reuters, Haavisto confirmed that NATO member countries have promised to support Finland during a possible application process - also in security matters.

The time that NATO needs to process a Finnish NATO application is between four months and a year - Haavisto said that he had received information about this from NATO.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said during a press conference on Thursday that the decision on Finland's possible NATO application could be made quickly if necessary.

- I can not estimate exactly how long it would take. I am confident that NATO's 30 member states will welcome Finland with open arms and that we can make the decision on membership quickly, Stoltenberg said .

IL: Decision on application in early May
The newspaper Iltalehti , for its part, knows that the timetable for a NATO application is starting to clear. According to the newspaper's sources, the president and the Foreign and Security Policy Committee (TP-Utva) will decide to apply for NATO membership during the first two weeks of May - possibly already earlier.

The process begins with the Prime Minister Sanna Marins' (SDP) government publishing a proposal to supplement the foreign and security policy report. According to the newspaper, this is already happening on Maundy Thursday, 14 April.

The addition is short and the text shows that the government has decided on a NATO application, writes Iltalehti.

The parliamentary committees begin to consider the supplement shortly after Easter, it is said.

Strong support in the Riksdag
Before the President of the Republic Sauli Niinistö and the Foreign and Security Policy Committee (TP-Utva) address the NATO issue, it is also addressed by a working group consisting of the party leaders and the chairmen of the parliamentary groups.

The working group, led by President Matti Vanhanen (C), has the task of announcing that a NATO application has strong parliamentary support, the newspaper writes.

President Niinistö and Prime Minister Sanna Marin then propose to the Committee of Ministers that Finland apply for NATO membership, after which the information will be passed on to NATO Headquarters in Brussels.

Finnish membership requires a green light from the parliaments of all NATO countries.

Kremlin: Russia would "balance the balance" if Finland joined NATO
Kremlin spokesman Dimitrij Peskov says Russia would have to "balance" if Finland and Sweden join NATO.

- We would focus more on our western border to ensure our security, he says.

He says Russia would not see NATO membership as an existential threat or a threat that could lead to the use of nuclear weapons.

All our reporting on what in one way or another touches on NATO can be found here .

Sources: Reuters, Sky News, HS

The article was updated on 7.4.2022 at 20.57 with Stoltenberg's comment and at 22.45 with the Kremlin's comment.

[Krasny-Volny]

cyber-volunteer blocks USN submariner for linking notable anti-western publication the economist

take that putin

I mean I’m all fairness, I failed to spoon-feed information to back up my personal experience with trying to join the Ukrainian volunteer forces. Perhaps it is I, the one who provided the source of information and the path to acquire said information, that is in the wrong. Truly, by providing an opportunity to ask a primary source like the Ukrainian governmental embassy that has been handling the foreign legion volunteer applications, I have failed to provide the appropriate unthinking pro-Ukrainian propaganda demanded of me by NSG. Truly, I deserve this ignore. Thank you, oh great and wise Archinstinct, for your stunning and heroic defense of the Ukrainian homeland.
The entirety of this is, of course, sarcastic. Whether you block me or not is irrelevant to the fact that the contract I was presented was everything short of extortionist. Whether that’s changed or not since I inquired about a month ago, I couldn’t tell you, but I bet the Ukrainian embassy can.

There are people serving as foreign volunteers in Ukraine who have not done it through the Ukrainian embassies in their respective countries. They made their way there, met with other volunteers they got in touch through FB with, and finagled their way into an international unit. I'm willing to bet the terms of their enlistment there, on the ground, less than fifty miles from the nearest Russian troops, were probably a lot less appalling than the terms you received through the embassy - which may also be their way of weeding out everybody who's not 110% committed.

[Krasny-Volny]

Tell us more about how the working class must be held responsible for the crimes of those who oppress and exploit them.

If one person kills another person for no good reason, that's called murder~

Except, the majority of the populace in Russia isn't actively fighting in ukraine. Why a majority of the russian federation should be faulted is their ethno-nationalism, is because they're supporting the killers and dehumanizing the Ukrainians. Basically blatant racism to justify genocide.

If i'm not mistaken, the term russians are using for the mere sight of something Ukrainian is 'khokval'. It's often the very first word out of their mouths, being spat like their rabid attack dogs about to go berserk. It's quite amusing to see on recording of chat rooms. Doesn't matter the age, sex, gender - it's a common occurrence. People as young as 18 or as old as 70. Female, male - doesn't matter. They'll laugh, jeer, spit racist remarks. Every sign of hate.

While it's true that many Russian civilians do appear to genuinely support the war, we have no way of knowing what percentage of the total population that really is. Impartial opinion polls are notoriously hard to come by in an authoritarian state like the Russian Federation. Plus, many Russians may say they're in favor of it because they're afraid not to. They might be a worker in a state factory who can't afford to lose their job. They might run a business dependent on the public sector for contracts. They might have a suspicious father-in-law in the intelligence services, as one of the Russian commentators I follow does.

[Archinstinct]

If one person kills another person for no good reason, that's called murder~

Except, the majority of the populace in Russia isn't actively fighting in ukraine. Why a majority of the russian federation should be faulted is their ethno-nationalism, is because they're supporting the killers and dehumanizing the Ukrainians. Basically blatant racism to justify genocide.

If i'm not mistaken, the term russians are using for the mere sight of something Ukrainian is 'khokval'. It's often the very first word out of their mouths, being spat like their rabid attack dogs about to go berserk. It's quite amusing to see on recording of chat rooms. Doesn't matter the age, sex, gender - it's a common occurrence. People as young as 18 or as old as 70. Female, male - doesn't matter. They'll laugh, jeer, spit racist remarks. Every sign of hate.

While it's true that many Russian civilians do appear to genuinely support the war, we have no way of knowing what percentage of the total population that really is. Impartial opinion polls are notoriously hard to come by in an authoritarian state like the Russian Federation. Plus, many Russians may say they're in favor of it because they're afraid not to. They might be a worker in a state factory who can't afford to lose their job. They might run a business dependent on the public sector for contracts. They might have a suspicious father-in-law in the intelligence services, as one of the Russian commentators I follow does.

Who's the Russian commentator?

[Krasny-Volny]

While it's true that many Russian civilians do appear to genuinely support the war, we have no way of knowing what percentage of the total population that really is. Impartial opinion polls are notoriously hard to come by in an authoritarian state like the Russian Federation. Plus, many Russians may say they're in favor of it because they're afraid not to. They might be a worker in a state factory who can't afford to lose their job. They might run a business dependent on the public sector for contracts. They might have a suspicious father-in-law in the intelligence services, as one of the Russian commentators I follow does.

Who's the Russian commentator?

TG'd.

[Archinstinct]

I'm going to put this here: https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/07/europe/u ... index.html

I don't feel joy over seeing that, but I do feel a small bit of relief. Four Russian prisoners were executed like the one civilian in bucha with a gray hoodie and hands tied. May they all rest in peace.

[Antipatros]

Finland is applying for NATO next week apparently...

If Finland joins, will Sweden?

I'm going to put this here: https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/07/europe/u ... index.html

I don't feel joy over seeing that, but I do feel a small bit of relief. Four Russian prisoners were executed like the one civilian in bucha with a gray hoodie and hands tied. May they all rest in peace.

Not cool. Not as heinous as murdering a bunch of unarmed civilians at random, but still not good. Ukraine should prosecute violations of the rules of war.

[Sordhau]

If Ukraine gets their hands on any of the Bucha Massacre orchestrators I hope they do the right thing.

Two to the skull, six feet under, unmarked grave.

You've made posts that others have called pro-russia.

"Others" are wrong. I stand where I have always stood: with Ukraine.

That other people can't distinguish between nuance and propaganda isn't my problem.

[Gig em Aggies]

Man you have to have F'd up big time if Skynet is siding with the Ukrainians: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk ... 8b9b1cb532

I propose we send all Arnold Schwarzenegger impersonators to Ukraine wearing all black w/black shades and a grenade launcher and a shotgun.

[Rusozak]

Finland is applying for NATO next week apparently...

Now we shall see if Russia dares to follow up on their threats to possible new NATO members.

[Picairn]

Australia will donate 20 Bushmaster PMVs to Ukraine following a direct request by Zelensky

Edit: A destroyed Russian T-90A tank.

[Archinstinct]

Man you have to have F'd up big time if Skynet is siding with the Ukrainians: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk ... 8b9b1cb532

I propose we send all Arnold Schwarzenegger impersonators to Ukraine wearing all black w/black shades and a grenade launcher and a shotgun.

That. Is. Awesome!

[Heloin]