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Ukrainian Invasion Thread II: Sunrise on the Dnieper

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Chan Island
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Founded: Nov 26, 2015
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Postby Chan Island » Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:25 pm

Novus America wrote:https://fortune.com/2022/03/29/chernobyl-ukraine-russian-soldiers-dangerous-radiation/amp/
This seems to confirm that the issue was not simply them being in Chernobyl but rather them kicking up massive amounts of dust.

“The employees said that the military vehicles kicked up a “big column of dust,” which may be what sent radiation levels soaring in the area following the invasion. The workers believed that breathing in that much radioactive dust could cause radiation poisoning, which can quickly turn lethal.”

The employees know what areas not to kick up dust/and or presumably wear respirators in said areas.
But apparently the Russians did not know or care.

That is what is most bizarre, apparently many of them did not even know a nuclear disaster had happened in the area:
“Some soldiers had reportedly never heard about the disaster that some historians believe signaled the beginning of the end for the Soviet Union.”

The thing is many Russians live in an bizarre post modern alternative reality created on state TV, not the actual objective reality we live in.
Except radioactive dust does not give a shit about Russia’s deranged post modern “alternative truths”, it will bring the objective truth to you regardless.


Just goes to show how much Putin cares about these troops. Send them into the site of the world’s worst nuclear catastrophe without any PPE or knowledge as to why there is a random, totally abandoned city there, and just shrug when they die of radiation poisoning.

I’d say it makes you sick, but that’s probably not appropriate in this context.

It’s good the Russians are leaving the area though. They were dying in Ukraine, and every war death is a tragedy. Now if only their friends in Kharkiv and the south would do the same, that’d make all our day.
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Independent Cossack Ukraine
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Postby Independent Cossack Ukraine » Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:32 pm

Chan Island wrote:
Novus America wrote:https://fortune.com/2022/03/29/chernobyl-ukraine-russian-soldiers-dangerous-radiation/amp/
This seems to confirm that the issue was not simply them being in Chernobyl but rather them kicking up massive amounts of dust.

“The employees said that the military vehicles kicked up a “big column of dust,” which may be what sent radiation levels soaring in the area following the invasion. The workers believed that breathing in that much radioactive dust could cause radiation poisoning, which can quickly turn lethal.”

The employees know what areas not to kick up dust/and or presumably wear respirators in said areas.
But apparently the Russians did not know or care.

That is what is most bizarre, apparently many of them did not even know a nuclear disaster had happened in the area:
“Some soldiers had reportedly never heard about the disaster that some historians believe signaled the beginning of the end for the Soviet Union.”

The thing is many Russians live in an bizarre post modern alternative reality created on state TV, not the actual objective reality we live in.
Except radioactive dust does not give a shit about Russia’s deranged post modern “alternative truths”, it will bring the objective truth to you regardless.


Just goes to show how much Putin cares about these troops. Send them into the site of the world’s worst nuclear catastrophe without any PPE or knowledge as to why there is a random, totally abandoned city there, and just shrug when they die of radiation poisoning.

I’d say it makes you sick, but that’s probably not appropriate in this context.

It’s good the Russians are leaving the area though. They were dying in Ukraine, and every war death is a tragedy. Now if only their friends in Kharkiv and the south would do the same, that’d make all our day.


Totally agreed. Disgusting how little regard Putin has for his men. Didn't bother to give proper protection, food, ammo, vehicles, repair kits, etc. Nope, Russia's Mussolini just tossed his conscripts into battle with zero regard for any human life.

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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:39 pm

Novus America wrote:The thing is many Russians live in an bizarre post modern alternative reality created on state TV, not the actual objective reality we live in.


Chernobyl is a much bigger deal in Russian culture and media than in the West lol

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:48 pm

Dtn wrote:
Novus America wrote:The thing is many Russians live in an bizarre post modern alternative reality created on state TV, not the actual objective reality we live in.


Chernobyl is a much bigger deal in Russian culture and media than in the West lol


Russia is not Ukraine. It is a huge deal in Ukraine.

There are reports are troops saying the Russians did not know the significance of the site.
And did not take the proper precautions.
How does one explain that? Perhaps amongst the generation the remembers 1986 it is, but perhaps not amongst those too young to have lived through it.

I have a source. Yours is simply conjecture.
Last edited by Novus America on Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:01 pm

Novus America wrote:
Dtn wrote:
Chernobyl is a much bigger deal in Russian culture and media than in the West lol


Russia is not Ukraine. It is a huge deal in Ukraine.

There are reports are troops saying the Russians did not know the significance of the site.
And did not take the proper precautions.
How does one explain that? Perhaps amongst the generation the remembers 1986 it is, but perhaps not amongst those too young to have lived through it.

I have a source. Yours is simply conjecture.


You have a single line from an unnamed Ukranian source talking about an unknown number of Russian soldiers. That isn't great evidence for the Russian culture in general being ignorant of Chernobyl, for all we know they are talking about a particularly stupid Russian private.

Even the reports that Russians are suffering radiation sickness haven't been confirmed or really elaborated on.
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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:05 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Russia is not Ukraine. It is a huge deal in Ukraine.

There are reports are troops saying the Russians did not know the significance of the site.
And did not take the proper precautions.
How does one explain that? Perhaps amongst the generation the remembers 1986 it is, but perhaps not amongst those too young to have lived through it.

I have a source. Yours is simply conjecture.


You have a single line from an unnamed Ukranian source talking about an unknown number of Russian soldiers. That isn't great evidence for the Russian culture in general being ignorant of Chernobyl, for all we know they are talking about a particularly stupid Russian private.

Even the reports that Russians are suffering radiation sickness haven't been confirmed or really elaborated on.


In objective reality Ukrainian sources that claim objectively impossible things are taken at face value and Chernobyl is covered up in Russia.

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:05 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Russia is not Ukraine. It is a huge deal in Ukraine.

There are reports are troops saying the Russians did not know the significance of the site.
And did not take the proper precautions.
How does one explain that? Perhaps amongst the generation the remembers 1986 it is, but perhaps not amongst those too young to have lived through it.

I have a source. Yours is simply conjecture.


You have a single line from an unnamed Ukranian source talking about an unknown number of Russian soldiers. That isn't great evidence for the Russian culture in general being ignorant of Chernobyl, for all we know they are talking about a particularly stupid Russian private.

Even the reports that Russians are suffering radiation sickness haven't been confirmed or really elaborated on.


Fair, but it is still a better source than some random guy on the internet saying lol.
I tried looking up how it is taught in Russia but found nothing later than 1994.

So it is not clear what the average Russian in the poor and rural areas is taught about it, if at all.
Last edited by Novus America on Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Dtn
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Postby Dtn » Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:20 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:Even the reports that Russians are suffering radiation sickness haven't been confirmed or really elaborated on.


Note that this story originated from a Facebook post by a Chernobyl tourism promoter.

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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:12 pm

Independent Cossack Ukraine wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:it's downfall all over again


"DAS WAR EIN BEFEHL! DER ANGRIFF STEINER WAR BEFEHL!"

Lol we need Downfall Parodies of Putin now.

I’ve seen a few already

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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:08 pm

Dtn wrote:
Novus America wrote:The thing is many Russians live in an bizarre post modern alternative reality created on state TV, not the actual objective reality we live in.


Chernobyl is a much bigger deal in Russian culture and media than in the West lol


But many are not privy to the specific details about the radioactive contamination of the area, and things not to do while in the exclusion zone. My bet is they were told it was safe and didn't know not to disturb the soil.
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Gig em Aggies
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Postby Gig em Aggies » Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:25 pm

Rusozak wrote:
Dtn wrote:
Chernobyl is a much bigger deal in Russian culture and media than in the West lol


But many are not privy to the specific details about the radioactive contamination of the area, and things not to do while in the exclusion zone. My bet is they were told it was safe and didn't know not to disturb the soil.

Sad as it is I think this picture sums up what was going through the Russian soldiers heads
Image
“One of the serious problems of planning against Aggie doctrine is that the Aggies do not read their manuals nor do they feel any obligations to follow their doctrine.”
“The reason that the Aggies does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the Aggies practices chaos on a daily basis.”
“If we don’t know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can’t anticipate our future actions!”

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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:33 pm

Independent Cossack Ukraine wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
Just goes to show how much Putin cares about these troops. Send them into the site of the world’s worst nuclear catastrophe without any PPE or knowledge as to why there is a random, totally abandoned city there, and just shrug when they die of radiation poisoning.

I’d say it makes you sick, but that’s probably not appropriate in this context.

It’s good the Russians are leaving the area though. They were dying in Ukraine, and every war death is a tragedy. Now if only their friends in Kharkiv and the south would do the same, that’d make all our day.


Totally agreed. Disgusting how little regard Putin has for his men. Didn't bother to give proper protection, food, ammo, vehicles, repair kits, etc. Nope, Russia's Mussolini just tossed his conscripts into battle with zero regard for any human life.

I mean how they're treated in peacetime isn't much better. Beaten, mutilated, raped, murdered, extorted and robbed, etc etc.
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:39 pm

Dtn wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:Even the reports that Russians are suffering radiation sickness haven't been confirmed or really elaborated on.


Note that this story originated from a Facebook post by a Chernobyl tourism promoter.

Most likely fake, the Facebook post didn't exactly say they suffered Acute Radiation Syndrome (ARS), the promoter just *wondered* if they dug trenches in the Red Forest. Soldiers going to hospitals during wartime isn't a surprise, they might as well be there for a regular radiation checkup to clean off contamination. Is there a chance they might have inhaled toxic radiation dust from the forest? Yes, and that may bring long-term health consequences, but ARS? No.

https://twitter.com/jrmygrdn/status/150 ... dRIRQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/SleepyNeutrons/stat ... YMfSw&s=19
https://twitter.com/CherylRofer/status/ ... 9rpeA&s=19

IAEA could not confirm the story: https://twitter.com/iaeaorg/status/1509 ... 6CRDw&s=19
Last edited by Picairn on Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:47 pm

Picairn wrote:
Dtn wrote:
Note that this story originated from a Facebook post by a Chernobyl tourism promoter.

Most likely fake, the Facebook post didn't exactly say they suffered Acute Radiation Syndrome (ARS), the promoter just *wondered* if they dug trenches in the Red Forest. Soldiers going to hospitals during wartime isn't a surprise, they might as well be there for a regular radiation checkup to clean off contamination. Is there a chance they might have inhaled toxic radiation dust from the forest? Yes, and that may bring long-term health consequences, but ARS? No.

https://twitter.com/jrmygrdn/status/150 ... dRIRQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/SleepyNeutrons/stat ... YMfSw&s=19
https://twitter.com/CherylRofer/status/ ... 9rpeA&s=19

IAEA could not confirm the story: https://twitter.com/iaeaorg/status/1509 ... 6CRDw&s=19


I agree ARS seems unlikely. The radiation levels are not that high. I would think more likely the issue would be radiation burns in the lungs from inhalation, Radiation Pneumonitis.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Independent Cossack Ukraine
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Postby Independent Cossack Ukraine » Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:08 pm

Adamede wrote:
Independent Cossack Ukraine wrote:
Totally agreed. Disgusting how little regard Putin has for his men. Didn't bother to give proper protection, food, ammo, vehicles, repair kits, etc. Nope, Russia's Mussolini just tossed his conscripts into battle with zero regard for any human life.

I mean how they're treated in peacetime isn't much better. Beaten, mutilated, raped, murdered, extorted and robbed, etc etc.


Wait. The Russian conscripts get mutilated, raped, and robbed?

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:19 pm

Independent Cossack Ukraine wrote:
Adamede wrote:I mean how they're treated in peacetime isn't much better. Beaten, mutilated, raped, murdered, extorted and robbed, etc etc.


Wait. The Russian conscripts get mutilated, raped, and robbed?


https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/02/ ... rmy-a69309
Unfortunately yes.

“But today, conscripts nearing the end of their year-long stint still bully new arrivals through rape, beatings and humiliation, sometimes with tragic consequences.”

It is probably not quite to the extreme now as it was in the early 00s, some belated actions were taken because it had gotten so absurdly out of hand, but unfortunately one of the biggest “reforms” was the Russian military simply stopped giving out data on soldier suicides and the like.

It still is a serious problem.
Last edited by Novus America on Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:22 pm

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Gig em Aggies
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Postby Gig em Aggies » Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:42 pm


I think it's more likely they are from the Wagner PMC or they could be a small group of Syrian soldiers because Toyotas in camo w/Shielded mg's wielded or bolted in the bed screams Middle East.
“One of the serious problems of planning against Aggie doctrine is that the Aggies do not read their manuals nor do they feel any obligations to follow their doctrine.”
“The reason that the Aggies does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the Aggies practices chaos on a daily basis.”
“If we don’t know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can’t anticipate our future actions!”

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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:51 pm

Gig em Aggies wrote:

I think it's more likely they are from the Wagner PMC or they could be a small group of Syrian soldiers because Toyotas in camo w/Shielded mg's wielded or bolted in the bed screams Middle East.

Technicals have no geographical restrictions for place of origin last I checked. Most likely they're seperatists.
Last edited by Adamede on Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
22yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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Gig em Aggies
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Postby Gig em Aggies » Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:22 pm

Adamede wrote:
Gig em Aggies wrote:I think it's more likely they are from the Wagner PMC or they could be a small group of Syrian soldiers because Toyotas in camo w/Shielded mg's wielded or bolted in the bed screams Middle East.

Technicals have no geographical restrictions for place of origin last I checked. Most likely they're seperatists.

True but with the way those trucks look with the MG's in the truck bed it just reminds me of the ME way too much.
“One of the serious problems of planning against Aggie doctrine is that the Aggies do not read their manuals nor do they feel any obligations to follow their doctrine.”
“The reason that the Aggies does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the Aggies practices chaos on a daily basis.”
“If we don’t know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can’t anticipate our future actions!”

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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:52 pm

Gig em Aggies wrote:
Adamede wrote:Technicals have no geographical restrictions for place of origin last I checked. Most likely they're seperatists.

True but with the way those trucks look with the MG's in the truck bed it just reminds me of the ME way too much.

I mean the Russians have been operating in the ME for years now so I'm not surprised that technical they're fielding share similarities.
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Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:42 pm

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Independent Cossack Ukraine
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Postby Independent Cossack Ukraine » Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:15 pm



Guess the VDV's efforts were for nothing. They took horrible casualties and failed their objective in the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XFytY7bDNA
Guess this holds true.
Last edited by Independent Cossack Ukraine on Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:24 pm

Europe will have to pay in rubbles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UrX60soN_M

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The Lone Alliance
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Postby The Lone Alliance » Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:27 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:Europe will have to pay in rubbles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UrX60soN_M

Putin seems to think he's Lord Vader who can alter the deal.

Europe should counter that if he tries to force Europe to pay in Rubles they will give Ukraine free tanks and aircraft.
Last edited by The Lone Alliance on Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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