Ukrainian Invasion Thread II: Sunrise on the Dnieper

[Adamede]

Clearly you don't understand what air superiority is

Pardon me? That' the point I'm making.

Ukraine having its airforce still in the fight doesn't mean they have air superiority, just as the Russians having their jets flying i Ukraine doesn't mean they have it either.

[New haven america]

No it's not.

Ukraine just signed it's EU application anyway, so...

1. Why not, 2. and what does the EU have to do with NATO membership?

1. Well, because, Ukraine's kinda getting sick of getting invaded and having territory stolen by Russia. Being in NATO will easily prevent that.

What's Russia gonna do, invade NATO? Oh wait, they can't do shit, cause this invasion is proving that the world spent 20 years fearing the metaphorical Chihuahua that is Russia. (And they only have ~20 actually operational nukes, so they're not even a nuclear threat anymore, thanks to America and Europe's anti-nuke system)

2. Being in the EU is a great add-on step to becoming a NATO member. (Plus, the EU is looking into creating their own armed forces)

[Kot Unduk]

Sadly, China was the only country in the east that really had the infrastructure to host it

What about Japan?

They had already hosted the Summer Olympics.

[The H Corporation]

Throwing Ukraine under the bus is definitely not in the cards of the US

Ukraine never had a chance to join NATO. Acknowledging that fact is not throwing Ukraine under the bus.

It is? Saying publicly that Ukraine won't join NATO any time soon or never is throwing away the progress of convincing Sweden and Finland to join NATO. Maybe it is not throwing them under the bus, but why would they say something that will harm their reputation? Let alone make Russia stop this nonsensical invasion. That is certainly not an option

[Adamede]

No it's not.

Ukraine just signed it's EU application anyway, so...

Why not, and what does the EU have to do with NATO membership?

Practiclly speaking the EU and NATO are the same bloc Russia wants a "neutral" Ukraine as a buffer.

[The Lone Alliance]

With the "40-mile" convoy headed to Kiev, you start to wonder why Ukraine's "functional" airforce isn't spraying it with bullets.

Because a 40 mile long convoy would have 40 miles worth of air defenses guarding it.

Heck that could be the entire point, try to get what's left of the Ukrainian airforce to engage it.

[Sauros]

According to this YT. map maker, the following day five map of the war shows who controls what.

Sad to say it, but from a standpoint of purely territorial control (using this map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXeEjG2SjDk), Ukraine ain't doing too well. They fell for one of the classic blunders and got a port city (Mariupol) encircled in the south, allowing Russia to connect their Southern and South-Eastern fronts together while consolidating control over the Sea of Azov.

Please pull through, Ukraine. No more encirclements of that magnitude, or I will face-palm so hard my forehead expands to the size of Eisenhower's from the shockwave.

[Adamede]

What about Japan?

They had already hosted the Summer Olympics.

South Korea? Singapore?

[Adamede]

With the "40-mile" convoy headed to Kiev, you start to wonder why Ukraine's "functional" airforce isn't spraying it with bullets.

Because a 40 mile long convoy would have 40 miles worth of air defenses guarding it.

Heck that could be the entire point, try to get what's left of the Ukrainian airforce to engage it.

So far the Ukrainians have been using drones against it instead so that maybe why.

[The Commonwealth of Tennessee]

With the "40-mile" convoy headed to Kiev, you start to wonder why Ukraine's "functional" airforce isn't spraying it with bullets.

Because a 40 mile long convoy would have 40 miles worth of air defenses guarding it.

Heck that could be the entire point, try to get what's left of the Ukrainian airforce to engage it.

The entire set up is like a screaming child saying "come get me, come get me!". Except instead of sand in the eye, it's a Strela or 30mm HE shells destroying your airframe.

[Saiwania]

Heck that could be the entire point, try to get what's left of the Ukrainian airforce to engage it.

Air power is too predictable. Instead, shell it with artillery from 3 or 4 directions at random.

[Kot Unduk]

They had already hosted the Summer Olympics.

South Korea? Singapore?

Not enough money for bribery. Had to be China. Sorry.

[Tarsonis]

Clearly you don't understand what air superiority is

Pardon me? That' the point I'm making.

Your point is bullshit, and if you knew what air superiority actually meant, you'd know why

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

What about Japan?

They had already hosted the Summer Olympics.

Which almost didn't happen thanks to the the Chinese government (not the people; the people are fine) mishandling the whole virus thing. It would have been hilarious to move it to Japan last-minute.

[Adamede]

With the "40-mile" convoy headed to Kiev, you start to wonder why Ukraine's "functional" airforce isn't spraying it with bullets.

We'll see if Ukraine still has some Bayraktar drones around to blast the convoy to pieces.

Have the Ukrainians received anymore drones from NATO?

[The Lone Alliance]

According to this YT. map maker, the following day five map of the war shows who controls what.

Sad to say it, but from a standpoint of purely territorial control (using this map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXeEjG2SjDk), Ukraine ain't doing too well. They fell for one of the classic blunders and got a port city (Mariupol) encircled in the south, allowing Russia to connect their Southern and South-Eastern fronts together while consolidating control over the Sea of Azov.

Please pull through, Ukraine. No more encirclements of that magnitude, or I will face-palm so hard my forehead expands to the size of Eisenhower's from the shockwave.

The forces in Mariupol were pretty much stuck from day one though, if they had attempted to retreat sooner they were within range of artillery and airstrikes from Donetsk and Crimea.

The moment the war began the forces there had to be expecting that they would be surrounded, heck I'm sure they're surprised it's taken this long, common sense would have thought that connecting a land bridge to Crimea should have been the very first thing the Russians did, instead of wasting their time in the north they could have stormed through the region by day two.

Besides the Mariupol area is under control of the Ukrainian Ultra-nationalists, you'd think if Putin was using the excuse of "We're in Ukraine to kill Nazis" they'd try to wipe out the area with the most Nazis.

And like most extremists, they likely wouldn't have retreated even if they were ordered too.

[The H Corporation]

South Korea? Singapore?

Not enough money for bribery. Had to be China. Sorry.

Lets get Arabia on the bids next

[Kowani]

have you read putin's demands

They include demilitarizing Ukraine I think? Which isn't going to happen while they're being invaded. I think it's possible that Putin will withdraw anyway if the invasion goes poorly enough, but he's going to need something to save face.

the key ones are "demilitarization", "denazification", and "neutrality" (also, recognition of crimea)
only two of those things is even remotely plausible and that's assuming he's honest in his demands at all-which i severely doubt. This really does seem like one man’s irredentist campaign. and if that’s what he wants, I’m not sure what off-ramps exist outside of “give him Ukraine" and that's...not our choice to make

[Adamede]

According to this YT. map maker, the following day five map of the war shows who controls what.

Sad to say it, but from a standpoint of purely territorial control (using this map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXeEjG2SjDk), Ukraine ain't doing too well. They fell for one of the classic blunders and got a port city (Mariupol) encircled in the south, allowing Russia to connect their Southern and South-Eastern fronts together while consolidating control over the Sea of Azov.

Please pull through, Ukraine. No more encirclements of that magnitude, or I will face-palm so hard my forehead expands to the size of Eisenhower's from the shockwave.

They're not trying to get encircled man. This isn't fucking HOI4 where they're just a bad player who can't conqueror the world as Luxembourg. This is real war between a large (regional) military power and a far smaller neighbor.

[Umeria]

1. Why not, 2. and what does the EU have to do with NATO membership?

1. Well, because, Ukraine's kinda getting sick of getting invaded and having territory stolen by Russia. Being in NATO will easily prevent that.

What's Russia gonna do, invade NATO? Oh wait, they can't do shit, cause this invasion is proving that the world spent 20 years fearing the metaphorical Chihuahua that is Russia. (And they only have ~20 actually operational nukes, so they're not even a nuclear threat anymore)

2. Being in the EU is a great first step to becoming a NATO member. (Plus, the EU is looking into creating their own armed forces)

But it's not going to happen. In order for a nation to join NATO, the existing members have to agree to it, and many of them don't.

Ukraine never had a chance to join NATO. Acknowledging that fact is not throwing Ukraine under the bus.

It is? Saying publicly that Ukraine won't join NATO any time soon or never is throwing away the progress of convincing Sweden and Finland to join NATO. Maybe it is not throwing them under the bus, but why would they say something that will harm their reputation? Let alone make Russia stop this nonsensical invasion. That is certainly not an option

I don't see how Ukraine's NATO membership has anything to do with Sweden or Finland's NATO membership.

Practiclly speaking the EU and NATO are the same bloc Russia wants a "neutral" Ukraine as a buffer.

Not really, EU nations don't have military obligations to each other.

[Kot Unduk]

Sad to say it, but from a standpoint of purely territorial control (using this map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXeEjG2SjDk), Ukraine ain't doing too well. They fell for one of the classic blunders and got a port city (Mariupol) encircled in the south, allowing Russia to connect their Southern and South-Eastern fronts together while consolidating control over the Sea of Azov.

Please pull through, Ukraine. No more encirclements of that magnitude, or I will face-palm so hard my forehead expands to the size of Eisenhower's from the shockwave.

They're not trying to get encircled man. This isn't fucking HOI4 where they're just a bad player who can't conqueror the world as Luxembourg. This is real war between a large (regional) military power and a far smaller neighbor.

At this rate, they'll be lucky to last three more weeks.

[Adamede]

Sad to say it, but from a standpoint of purely territorial control (using this map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXeEjG2SjDk), Ukraine ain't doing too well. They fell for one of the classic blunders and got a port city (Mariupol) encircled in the south, allowing Russia to connect their Southern and South-Eastern fronts together while consolidating control over the Sea of Azov.

Please pull through, Ukraine. No more encirclements of that magnitude, or I will face-palm so hard my forehead expands to the size of Eisenhower's from the shockwave.

The forces in Mariupol were pretty much stuck from day one though, if they had attempted to retreat sooner they were within range of artillery and airstrikes from Donetsk and Crimea.

The moment the war began the forces there had to be expecting that they would be surrounded, heck I'm sure they're surprised it's taken this long, common sense would have thought that connecting a land bridge to Crimea should have been the very first thing the Russians did, instead of wasting their time in the north they could have stormed through the region by day two.

Besides the Mariupol area is that's under control of the Ukrainian Ultra-nationalists, you'd think if Putin was using the excuse of "We're in Ukraine to kill Nazis" they'd try to wipe out the area with the most Nazis.

That and dragging the Russians into potential urban warfare will help to nullify the material/armor advantage they possess. We'll see if the Russians fall for that.

[Adamede]

They're not trying to get encircled man. This isn't fucking HOI4 where they're just a bad player who can't conqueror the world as Luxembourg. This is real war between a large (regional) military power and a far smaller neighbor.

At this rate, they'll be lucky to last three more weeks.

I know you'd rather they lay down their arms and raise a Russian flag.

[Kot Unduk]

Pardon me? That' the point I'm making.

Your point is bullshit, and if you knew what air superiority actually meant, you'd know why

The Ukrainians are keeping their planes quiet because Russia has air superiority in the East and they want to minimize losses obviously, where you standing?

[Antipatros]

One way to tell someone to shut up

Also an indication of activity by Ukrainian irregulars in Russian occupied territories.