Ukrainian Invasion Thread II: Sunrise on the Dnieper

[Gallia-]

""The Russian army is the last bastion against the satanic new world order". Literal quote from the official Russian Officer's Handbook. Captured by Ukrainian GUR, document appears authentic."

Leninism is an arch-imperialist ideology because it believes in turning Russians/Ukrainians/Tatars into Soviets, yes.

It's Super Imperialist.

I didn't know Leninism involved telling people that got smacked around by the Tsars they should've just done better though

But in practice the 'Soviet people' were just Russians+whatever groups had Russification imposed on them.

Brezhniev in 1975: "The Soviet people have voluntarily accepted Russian as a common historical heritage which contributes to a further stabilization of the political, economic and spiritual unity of the Soviet people."

No, I'm not goin to get into a discussion of the 80 million different splinter groups of communism and whether Brezhniev was ideologically pure enough to be allowed to say things like this or whatever.

TBF, Lenin would probably just call them loser nerds, then moonwalk-dab out of the room. That seems more his style.

[Luminesa]

Zelenskyy is open to surrender (and presumably actually agreeing to Minsk) i.e. taking Donbass and Luhansk back and integrating them as protected subjects instead of genocide targets of Ukrainian nationalists or whatever the constitutional reforms demanded by Russia were. I'd imagine Russia will throw in Kherson water/power provisioning for Crimea, tell Zelenskyy to stay out of NATO because they don't care about him, and then dust its hands and go home. War over.

Zelenskyy now has to fight a brutal civil war against a third to a half his own countrymen who think he's a traitor for 1) being Jewish 2) negotiating with the Russians 3) brokering an actual peace deal.

That seems to be where this is headed anyway.

Can you rephrase this? That whole first line doesn't appear to make any sense.

It’s malicious paraphrasing. Ukraine isn’t surrendering, they are open to talks about disputed regions. Gallia’s salivating over Ukrainian civil war isn’t reflective of what’s actually happening.

[HISPIDA]

>Least imperialist Leninist

Leninism is an arch-imperialist ideology because it believes in turning Russians/Ukrainians/Tatars into Soviets, yes.

It's Super Imperialist.

lol. lmao

[The Archregimancy]

Now it is. In 1943 it wasn't.

Get the fuck out of others peoples land!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deporta ... ean_Tatars

>In 1943 it wasn't.

Uh, considering in 1943 it was being occupied by the Nazis, and people fled, I'd imagine that would be the case yes. Perhaps the only people left were Nazis and their Ukrainian collaborators like Bandera.

It's been plurality (a "minority-majority" if you will) Russian for as long as anyone has been alive though. Which is about as credible as anything.

If Tatars wanted their own land maybe they should have been able to beat the Tsars lol.

Ethel meant 1944; as shown in the link, the deportation of the Tatars took place in May 1944, and was undertaken by the Soviet Union under the direct orders of Beria.

The first major demographic shift of modern times, however, took place between the 1897 imperial census - when Tatars were a plurality over Russians - and the 1926 Soviet census, when Russians were a plurality. So the point that Russians have been a plurality 'for as long as anyone has been alive' is likely valid. However, Russians only became a majority of the population in Crimea as a direct result of the Stalin-era deportations.

The argument 'If Tatars wanted their own land maybe they should have been able to beat the Tsars lol' is fatuous and poorly thought through.

[Adamede]

Or you could just say you have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

Worked for the crimea.

Ukraine as a whole is a bit larger than Crimea.

[Gallia-]

Worthwhile note from said article (which I already read this morning):
"The people who elected me are not ready to surrender. We are not ready for ultimatums," Zelensky said. "But we can discuss with Russia the future of Crimea and Donbas."

Compromise on disputed regions is not a full-out surrender.

It literally is, at least from the position of Banderists and ultra-nationalist Ukrainians who want to genocide the Russians living there, and these are not super tiny minorities. A few of them are National Guard battalions.

Giving up Donbass/Luhansk and Crimea to the Russians will absolutely spark a major civil war in Ukraine between various political factions. It will also make the Russians kind of mad since they don't really want DPR/LPR but I guess they kind of just have them now.

[Christian Confederation]

Worthwhile note from said article (which I already read this morning):
"The people who elected me are not ready to surrender. We are not ready for ultimatums," Zelensky said. "But we can discuss with Russia the future of Crimea and Donbas."

Compromise on disputed regions is not a full-out surrender.

It's not Surender It's saving your skin

[Ethel mermania]

Now it is. In 1943 it wasn't.

Get the fuck out of others peoples land!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deporta ... ean_Tatars

>In 1943 it wasn't.

Uh, considering in 1943 it was being occupied by the Nazis, and people fled, I'd imagine that would be the case yes. Perhaps the only people left were Nazis and their Ukrainian collaborators like Bandera.

It's been plurality (a "minority-majority" if you will) Russian for as long as anyone has been alive though. Which is about as credible as anything.

If Tatars wanted their own land maybe they should have been able to beat the Tsars lol.

They were forcibly removed by Stalin. It would be nice if Russia stopped raping and looting others land.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

All right the Russian DoD has now officially confirmed that they’re using conscripts during the conflict- something that they’ve denied initially.

(Or did they press poor conscripts into the fight because they’ve ran out of qualified kontraktniks?)

[Holy Tedalonia]

Worthwhile note from said article (which I already read this morning):
"The people who elected me are not ready to surrender. We are not ready for ultimatums," Zelensky said. "But we can discuss with Russia the future of Crimea and Donbas."

Compromise on disputed regions is not a full-out surrender.

It's not Surender It's saving your skin

If you lose something to save your skin. I'd say it's a conditional surrender.

[Gallia-]

>In 1943 it wasn't.

Uh, considering in 1943 it was being occupied by the Nazis, and people fled, I'd imagine that would be the case yes. Perhaps the only people left were Nazis and their Ukrainian collaborators like Bandera.

It's been plurality (a "minority-majority" if you will) Russian for as long as anyone has been alive though. Which is about as credible as anything.

If Tatars wanted their own land maybe they should have been able to beat the Tsars lol.

They were forcibly removed by Stalin. It would be nice if Russia stopped raping and looting others land.

Nice for the people who live, sure.

But who is going to actually do it?

And why would anyone do it for a long displaced group of people like Crimean Tatars, and not for a much more relevant group of people, like Ukrainians?

[Laka Strolistandiler]

All right the Russian DoD has now officially confirmed that they’re using conscripts during the conflict- something that they’ve denied initially.

(Or did they press poor conscripts into the fight because they’ve ran out of qualified kontraktniks?)

Here is the prooflink: https://paperpaper.ru/papernews/2022/3/ ... o-ucastie/

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

When you consider the background to the Irish Civil War (1921, I think, or was it 1922?), as Ukraine is forced to rely more and more on less and less politically reliable regional militias in order to continue putting up a viable fight against what is ultimately a much stronger enemy, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that a compromise peace deal where Russia gets to keep Crimea and some influence in the Donbas will result in some of those militias refusing to put down their arms.

This is modern war with industrial firepower, and the usual outcome in these wars is that nobody really wins even when they 'win'.

[Picairn]

All right the Russian DoD has now officially confirmed that they’re using conscripts during the conflict- something that they’ve denied initially.

(Or did they press poor conscripts into the fight because they’ve ran out of qualified kontraktniks?)

Here is the prooflink: https://paperpaper.ru/papernews/2022/3/ ... o-ucastie/

Well, if Russia is finally using conscripts then that confirms the stream of reinforcements coming into Ukraine on the ground.

[Luminesa]

All right the Russian DoD has now officially confirmed that they’re using conscripts during the conflict- something that they’ve denied initially.

(Or did they press poor conscripts into the fight because they’ve ran out of qualified kontraktniks?)

That…mostly confirms what we already knew, but thank you.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

All right the Russian DoD has now officially confirmed that they’re using conscripts during the conflict- something that they’ve denied initially.

(Or did they press poor conscripts into the fight because they’ve ran out of qualified kontraktniks?)

That…mostly confirms what we already knew, but thank you.

Yeah but at this point this is official and so completely true… Whoch makes me hate this fucking piece of shit place even more.

Also currently getting my foreign passport which is a necessity for leaving the state bruh it seems to go nicely

[Luminesa]

Worthwhile note from said article (which I already read this morning):
"The people who elected me are not ready to surrender. We are not ready for ultimatums," Zelensky said. "But we can discuss with Russia the future of Crimea and Donbas."

Compromise on disputed regions is not a full-out surrender.

It literally is, at least from the position of Banderists and ultra-nationalist Ukrainians who want to genocide the Russians living there, and these are not super tiny minorities. A few of them are National Guard battalions.

Giving up Donbass/Luhansk and Crimea to the Russians will absolutely spark a major civil war in Ukraine between various political factions. It will also make the Russians kind of mad since they don't really want DPR/LPR but I guess they kind of just have them now.

Russia is already a lot more than kinda mad…???

[Luminesa]

That…mostly confirms what we already knew, but thank you.

Yeah but at this point this is official and so completely true… Whoch makes me hate this fucking piece of shit place even more.

Also currently getting my foreign passport which is a necessity for leaving the state bruh it seems to go nicely

I was about to ask how goes efforts to get out of Russia. Stay safe, I hope they’ll be able to get you out soon.

[Adamede]

When you consider the background to the Irish Civil War (1921, I think, or was it 1922?), as Ukraine is forced to rely more and more on less and less politically reliable regional militias in order to continue putting up a viable fight against what is ultimately a much stronger enemy, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that a compromise peace deal where Russia gets to keep Crimea and some influence in the Donbas will result in some of those militias refusing to put down their arms.

This is modern war with industrial firepower, and the usual outcome in these wars is that nobody really wins even when they 'win'.

That’s how war has always been.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

I would like to remind y’all about what happened to Yugoslavia after getting sanctioned like Russia is RN

The consequences of sanctions imposed against Yugoslavia in November 1992 - the day after the adoption of UN Security Council resolution number 757 (the resolution forbade UN member countries from any trade operations with Yugoslavia, the use of Yugoslav ships and aircraft, business contacts, all financial transactions with individuals and legal entities from the FRY; Yugoslav currency funds were frozen abroad, restrictions were imposed on the flight and landing of Yugoslav aircraft, the number of Yugoslav diplomatic offices was reduced, the participation of Yugoslav representatives in sporting events abroad was prohibited, scientific, technical and cultural cooperation was stopped; the only exception was made for the import into Yugoslavia of food, medicine, etc. Another tightening of sanctions was associated with the adoption of UN Security Council resolution number 820 on April 17, 1993, which completely prohibited the transit of goods along the Danube, frozen Yugoslav e accounts in foreign banks and limited postal communication - parcels were not accepted, and there were a number of restrictions for letters), quote from Wikipedia:

In 1992, the rate of hyperinflation amounted to 19,810.2%, By the end of 1993, inflation was 1,000,000%. In December of that year, prices increased by 1,790 times compared to prices in November. For food, they increased by 3586 times. By January 1994, inflation was 313,000,000%. Due to inflation, the average salary in Yugoslavia has dropped below six dollars. The government introduced a rationed distribution of products, essentials. In July 1992, a month after the imposition of sanctions, up to 40% of public sector enterprises stopped working. The Assembly adopted a number of laws, according to which the government limited the wages of working citizens and froze prices for almost 50% of goods.

Although I have my doubts that Russia will suffer as badly as Yugo did, the economy will definitely be fucked

[Gallia-]

It literally is, at least from the position of Banderists and ultra-nationalist Ukrainians who want to genocide the Russians living there, and these are not super tiny minorities. A few of them are National Guard battalions.

Giving up Donbass/Luhansk and Crimea to the Russians will absolutely spark a major civil war in Ukraine between various political factions. It will also make the Russians kind of mad since they don't really want DPR/LPR but I guess they kind of just have them now.

Russia is already a lot more than kinda mad…???

Russia's current state, if you can "quantify the emotional state of a collective", is something like annoyed/upset/jilted. If they were "kinda mad" they would probably be flattening cities with TOS-1s like Grozny. That hasn't happened.

Anyway they don't really want the LDPR, no. The Minsk Agreements (both) stipulated that Ukraine take LDPR back and their borders are restored, minus Crimea, and they adopt a constitutional amendment to devolve local self-governance to LDPR. This never happened. But now thye kinda have the LDPR. I guess they could kick them out but the Naval Infantry have been so successful at taking land in the south that that seems unlikely.

It could all just be a bargaining chip though. People thought Putin wanted a major land bridge to Crimea in 2014 and he literally has that right now.

[Picairn]

Russian airstrike destroys children's hospital in Mariupol

Denazification so effective, it even wipes out the kids! /s

[The North Polish Union]

Russia conducting mass arrests of civilians in Cherson, building 'detention center' to house prisoners.

[Adamede]

Russian airstrike destroys children's hospital in Mariupol

Denazification so effective, it even wipes out the kids! /s

Dead kids can’t grow up to be neo-Nazis after all.

[Untecna]

Russian airstrike destroys children's hospital in Mariupol

Denazification so effective, it even wipes out the kids! /s

Can't see how people can still support Russia.