Floridas ¨don´t say gay bill¨

[Prima Scriptura]

This bill will prevent teachers from injecting radical LGBT ideology to the lesson plan

Stop listening to conservatives for 5 minutes. You sound more and more like a Trump supporter everyday.

I hate Donald Trump.

That is actually a simplistic take on how Christianity works. The bolded part (the "ceremonial law" as it's called) is generally recognized as applicable to the Jews especially during the Old Testament times.

Soooo. You get to pick and choose? That’s cool.

No, it’s because we believe in the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

The prohibition of homosexuality is part of that ceremonial law. But then Jesus said the only law left in his time was to love God and one's neighbor, and even Paul did not quite condemn homosexuality altogether, he only said it's wrong to be a bottom. Which was in line with the culture of the Roman Empire where the prevailing view is you can give as much as you want but it's shameful to take.

At best, the Bible proscribes penetrative male-male intercourse, nothing more.

Then Prima is basing his opinions on Paul and is interpreting it as a blanket prohibition on homosexuality.[/ quote]

Or the politicalised interpretation of what Paul wrote we've been taught.

Paul's condemnation of homosexuality can just as easily be translated as masturbators, for instance, which it was in previous centuries, and was still in the Catholic Encyclopaedia right up until 1906. Just one, of a number, of instances where God's word has had its meaning changed.

The prohibition of homosexuality is quite clear, even if we have a “modern understanding” of homosexuality. Sodomy is a sin, and yes it’s a sin when heterosexuals do it too.

Then Prima is basing his opinions on Paul and is interpreting it as a blanket prohibition on homosexuality.

Or the politicalised interpretation of what Paul wrote we've been taught.

Paul's condemnation of homosexuality can just as easily be translated as masturbators, for instance, which it was in previous centuries, and was still in the Catholic Encyclopaedia right up until 1906. Just one, of a number, of instances where God's word has had its meaning changed.

I am not going to deny masturbation is a sin. It is a sin.


I’m not going to post anymore in this thread regarding christianity and homosexuality. This is not the appropriate third for it. If you feel discussing it further, please post in the CDT.

[Necroghastia]

Anyway, like... When I was in third grade I knew and understood things like male seahorses get pregnant and several animals change sex. If something like And Tango Makes Three had been published earlier, I probably would have known and understood same-sex pairings exist in the animal world.

Granted, I was an enormous nerd even at such a young age, but I still was able to understand that such things happen. To say that kids that age aren't capable of understanding when humans do the same kinds of things is just flat out ignorant and demeaning.

[Izandai]

Anyway, like... When I was in third grade I knew and understood things like male seahorses get pregnant and several animals change sex. If something like And Tango Makes Three had been published earlier, I probably would have known and understood same-sex pairings exist in the animal world.

Granted, I was an enormous nerd even at such a young age, but I still was able to understand that such things happen. To say that kids that age aren't capable of understanding when humans do the same kinds of things is just flat out ignorant and demeaning.

Ah, but you see, children aren't little developing people with their own thoughts and feelings and opinions who need and deserve a diversity of information about the world so that they can better understand how it works and their place in it, they're animate dolls for their parents to live vicariously through and as such only require that information their parents need them to have in order to sculpt them into their ideal form (ideal for the parent, of course, not the child).[/sarcasm]

[Neuer California]

Stop listening to conservatives for 5 minutes. You sound more and more like a Trump supporter everyday.

I hate Donald Trump.

Soooo. You get to pick and choose? That’s cool.

No, it’s because we believe in the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

Then Prima is basing his opinions on Paul and is interpreting it as a blanket prohibition on homosexuality.[/ quote]

The prohibition of homosexuality is quite clear, even if we have a “modern understanding” of homosexuality. Sodomy is a sin, and yes it’s a sin when heterosexuals do it too.

Or the politicalised interpretation of what Paul wrote we've been taught.

Paul's condemnation of homosexuality can just as easily be translated as masturbators, for instance, which it was in previous centuries, and was still in the Catholic Encyclopaedia right up until 1906. Just one, of a number, of instances where God's word has had its meaning changed.

I am not going to deny masturbation is a sin. It is a sin.


I’m not going to post anymore in this thread regarding christianity and homosexuality. This is not the appropriate third for it. If you feel discussing it further, please post in the CDT.

And the aspects of homosexuality that have nothing to do with Christianity?

Like your claims that the young cannot understand the concept or that it is psychologically damaging to teach the young about it?

Or are you admitting that there's no reason to take you seriously on this topic?

[Prima Scriptura]

I hate Donald Trump.



No, it’s because we believe in the new covenant of Jesus Christ.



The prohibition of homosexuality is quite clear, even if we have a “modern understanding” of homosexuality. Sodomy is a sin, and yes it’s a sin when heterosexuals do it too.










I am not going to deny masturbation is a sin. It is a sin.


I’m not going to post anymore in this thread regarding christianity and homosexuality. This is not the appropriate third for it. If you feel discussing it further, please post in the CDT.

And the aspects of homosexuality that have nothing to do with Christianity?

Like your claims that the young cannot understand the concept or that it is psychologically damaging to teach the young about it?

Or are you admitting that there's no reason to take you seriously on this topic?

I have already articulated my support for this bill and how teaching homosexuality or transgenderism is harmful to young children.

[Neuer California]

And the aspects of homosexuality that have nothing to do with Christianity?

Like your claims that the young cannot understand the concept or that it is psychologically damaging to teach the young about it?

Or are you admitting that there's no reason to take you seriously on this topic?

I have already articulated my support for this bill and how teaching homosexuality or transgenderism is harmful to young children.

Without proof or explanation.

You've stated that that's the case, but ignored any challenges to explain how that's the case or prove with evidence that it is. I've read the entire thread, so I know this, and your failure to explain is why I keep getting on your case about it.

[Vassenor]

And the aspects of homosexuality that have nothing to do with Christianity?

Like your claims that the young cannot understand the concept or that it is psychologically damaging to teach the young about it?

Or are you admitting that there's no reason to take you seriously on this topic?

I have already articulated my support for this bill and how teaching homosexuality or transgenderism is harmful to young children.

Then it won’t be hard to do it again.

[Prima Scriptura]

I have already articulated my support for this bill and how teaching homosexuality or transgenderism is harmful to young children.

Without proof or explanation.

You've stated that that's the case, but ignored any challenges to explain how that's the case or prove with evidence that it is. I've read the entire thread, so I know this, and your failure to explain is why I keep getting on your case about it.

Well if you’re expecting some sources, they would be hard to come by because psychological and psychiatric organizations are beholden to the LBGT activists and will not say anything remotely negative because fear of backlash. I’ve already said that young children are incapable of understanding homosexuality and transgender ideology. I also repeated that children that have same-sex parents are not prohibited to talk about their parents in an academic setting, such as doing a family tree. What do you spell prevents is reachers injecting LBGT ideology into the curriculum.


Now, I think I’ve given you enough of my time regarding this subject.

[Vassenor]

Without proof or explanation.

You've stated that that's the case, but ignored any challenges to explain how that's the case or prove with evidence that it is. I've read the entire thread, so I know this, and your failure to explain is why I keep getting on your case about it.

Well if you’re expecting some sources, they would be hard to come by because psychological and psychiatric organizations are beholden to the LBGT activists and will not say anything remotely negative because fear of backlash. I’ve already said that young children are incapable of understanding homosexuality and transgender ideology. I also repeated that children that have same-sex parents are not prohibited to talk about their parents in an academic setting, such as doing a family tree. What do you spell prevents is reachers injecting LBGT ideology into the curriculum.


Now, I think I’ve given you enough of my time regarding this subject.

Ah yes, the old “all the sources are biased because the secret LGBT cabal controls the world” shit.

Pull the other one, it rings.

[Neuer California]

Without proof or explanation.

You've stated that that's the case, but ignored any challenges to explain how that's the case or prove with evidence that it is. I've read the entire thread, so I know this, and your failure to explain is why I keep getting on your case about it.

Well if you’re expecting some sources, they would be hard to come by because psychological and psychiatric organizations are beholden to the LBGT activists and will not say anything remotely negative because fear of backlash. I’ve already said that young children are incapable of understanding homosexuality and transgender ideology. I also repeated that children that have same-sex parents are not prohibited to talk about their parents in an academic setting, such as doing a family tree. What do you spell prevents is reachers injecting LBGT ideology into the curriculum.


Now, I think I’ve given you enough of my time regarding this subject.

Yep, and you've completely discredited yourself. Good to know that.

[Prima Scriptura]

Well if you’re expecting some sources, they would be hard to come by because psychological and psychiatric organizations are beholden to the LBGT activists and will not say anything remotely negative because fear of backlash. I’ve already said that young children are incapable of understanding homosexuality and transgender ideology. I also repeated that children that have same-sex parents are not prohibited to talk about their parents in an academic setting, such as doing a family tree. What do you spell prevents is reachers injecting LBGT ideology into the curriculum.


Now, I think I’ve given you enough of my time regarding this subject.

Yep, and you've completely discredited yourself. Good to know that.

*shurgs* The bill has already passed the Florida State legislature, and it’s going to be signed into law. Arguing about it is a moot point. I don’t think that any court will strike it down. If parents want to teach their children progressive ideals related to LBGT, they’re more than welcome to teach their own kids and not rely on publicly funded state schools.

[Page]

Yep, and you've completely discredited yourself. Good to know that.

*shurgs* The bill has already passed the Florida State legislature, and it’s going to be signed into law. Arguing about it is a moot point. I don’t think that any court will strike it down. If parents want to teach their children progressive ideals related to LBGT, they’re more than welcome to teach their own kids and not rely on publicly funded state schools.

This law doesn't just ban the teaching of "progressive ideals", it basically wants to pretend that non-cis-hetero identities don't even exist. Which in the end is only going to result in thousands and thousands of Florida kids looking up gay porn so they can find out what's being hidden from them.

[Vassenor]

Yep, and you've completely discredited yourself. Good to know that.

*shurgs* The bill has already passed the Florida State legislature, and it’s going to be signed into law. Arguing about it is a moot point. I don’t think that any court will strike it down. If parents want to teach their children progressive ideals related to LBGT, they’re more than welcome to teach their own kids and not rely on publicly funded state schools.

So we should avoid teaching kids about themselves and how it’s ok to be who they are if it makes conservatives feel uncomfortable.

And I thought conservatives were the ones who hated the idea of safe spaces that sought to insulate people from things they didn’t like.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Ah, so we have here not only a Christian, but also a conspiracy theorist.

The United States just keeps getting better, doesn’t it?

[Necroghastia]

Without proof or explanation.

You've stated that that's the case, but ignored any challenges to explain how that's the case or prove with evidence that it is. I've read the entire thread, so I know this, and your failure to explain is why I keep getting on your case about it.

Well if you’re expecting some sources, they would be hard to come by because psychological and psychiatric organizations are beholden to the LBGT activists and will not say anything remotely negative because fear of backlash.

What reason is there to think this and not that they legitimately know what they're talking about?

I’ve already said that young children are incapable of understanding homosexuality and transgender ideology.

What reason is there to think this? This is ignorant and demeaning of children's intelligence, as I explained earlier. Are children of LGBT parents similarly unable to understand?

I also repeated that children that have same-sex parents are not prohibited to talk about their parents in an academic setting, such as doing a family tree. What do you spell prevents is reachers injecting LBGT ideology into the curriculum.

What is "LGBT ideology" and how is anyone "injecting" it into the curriculum?

Now, I think I’ve given you enough of my time regarding this subject.

Why can't you answer anyone's questions? If you're just going to reiterate things you've already said without the elaboration or sources asked for, why even post at all? If anything defies understanding, it's that.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I have already articulated my support for this bill and how teaching homosexuality or transgenderism is harmful to young children.

Well there's always the option of moving to the Russian Federation for you then, where they pretend to be Christian while hating the gays very, very much.

[Diarcesia]

Yes, kindergartners to third graders can’t understand that some people have two mommies and two daddies. Also, this bill won’t prevent children to talk about their same-sex parents. Such as doing a family tree. This bill will prevent teachers from injecting radical LGBT ideology to the lesson plan

Speculating to the same extent here, this bill is one of Florida's attempts at spreading cishet ideology to the lesson plan.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

Without proof or explanation.

You've stated that that's the case, but ignored any challenges to explain how that's the case or prove with evidence that it is. I've read the entire thread, so I know this, and your failure to explain is why I keep getting on your case about it.

Well if you’re expecting some sources, they would be hard to come by because psychological and psychiatric organizations are beholden to the LBGT activists and will not say anything remotely negative because fear of backlash. I’ve already said that young children are incapable of understanding homosexuality and transgender ideology. I also repeated that children that have same-sex parents are not prohibited to talk about their parents in an academic setting, such as doing a family tree. What do you spell prevents is reachers injecting LBGT ideology into the curriculum.


Now, I think I’ve given you enough of my time regarding this subject.

They disagree with you, so they’re obviously controlled by Big Gay or whatever.

Yes, you’ve said that young children can’t understand having parents of the same sex. It doesn’t make it true and people have explained why it’s false.

Why is “injecting” “LGBT ideology” bad? If they’re going to learn about it anyway, why ban it other than to stop kids with anti-LGBT parents from learning about gay people? Conservative parents aren’t the only people serviced by the schooling system, and they shouldn’t get to dictate the curriculum.

[Ifreann]

Without proof or explanation.

You've stated that that's the case, but ignored any challenges to explain how that's the case or prove with evidence that it is. I've read the entire thread, so I know this, and your failure to explain is why I keep getting on your case about it.

Well if you’re expecting some sources, they would be hard to come by because psychological and psychiatric organizations are beholden to the LBGT activists and will not say anything remotely negative because fear of backlash. I’ve already said that young children are incapable of understanding homosexuality and transgender ideology.

But how do you know that. You admit that there is no research to support this belief, so why do you hold it? What evidence lead you to this conclusion?

---

Yep, and you've completely discredited yourself. Good to know that.

*shurgs* The bill has already passed the Florida State legislature, and it’s going to be signed into law. Arguing about it is a moot point. I don’t think that any court will strike it down. If parents want to teach their children progressive ideals related to LBGT, they’re more than welcome to teach their own kids and not rely on publicly funded state schools.

If the globohomo cabal is so powerful, how is it that this law and others like it are being passed?

[Diarcesia]

Well if you’re expecting some sources, they would be hard to come by because psychological and psychiatric organizations are beholden to the LBGT activists and will not say anything remotely negative because fear of backlash. I’ve already said that young children are incapable of understanding homosexuality and transgender ideology.

But how do you know that. You admit that there is no research to support this belief, so why do you hold it? What evidence lead you to this conclusion?

It's a conclusion grounded on religious faith, not evidence. It's like trying to convince an atheist to believe in a god.

[Ifreann]

But how do you know that. You admit that there is no research to support this belief, so why do you hold it? What evidence lead you to this conclusion?

It's a conclusion grounded on religious faith, not evidence.

One does rather suspect that the reasoning begins with the "fact" that God has condemned these things and thus the inevitable conclusion that they are harmful.

[Malphe II]

It's a conclusion grounded on religious faith, not evidence.

One does rather suspect that the reasoning begins with the "fact" that God has condemned these things and thus the inevitable conclusion that they are harmful.

The immutable, divinely ordained fact that homosexuality is sinful comes first, all further rationalization is just fluff to help make you look more rational & reasonable. The only thing that could begin change the minds of these folk is a reexamination of their relationship with their faith, until then they'll keep on justifying their cruel beliefs in whatever ways they can. keh

[Ifreann]

One does rather suspect that the reasoning begins with the "fact" that God has condemned these things and thus the inevitable conclusion that they are harmful.

The immutable, divinely ordained fact that homosexuality is sinful comes first, all further rationalization is just fluff to help make you look more rational & reasonable. The only thing that could begin change the minds of these folk is a reexamination of their relationship with their faith, until then they'll keep on justifying their cruel beliefs in whatever ways they can. keh

Based on past conversations I expect we might see some kind of response about the harmfulness of exposing children to explicit gay sexual activity. But that of course is nonsense. Obviously the content of classes about LGBT issues is not going to be "Watch these gay people having gay sex", but age appropriate explanations that there is such a thing as lesbian and gay people, there is such a thing as bi people, there is such a thing as trans people, that people have been oppressed on the basis of being LGBT and there has been a civil rights movement resisting this oppression.

And that's the problem for people like Prima Scriptura. Teach children the facts and the history and they will naturally support LGBT rights and oppose anti-LGBT bigotry.

[Port Caverton]

Without proof or explanation.

You've stated that that's the case, but ignored any challenges to explain how that's the case or prove with evidence that it is. I've read the entire thread, so I know this, and your failure to explain is why I keep getting on your case about it.

Well if you’re expecting some sources, they would be hard to come by because psychological and psychiatric organizations are beholden to the LBGT activists and will not say anything remotely negative because fear of backlash. I’ve already said that young children are incapable of understanding homosexuality and transgender ideology. I also repeated that children that have same-sex parents are not prohibited to talk about their parents in an academic setting, such as doing a family tree. What do you spell prevents is reachers injecting LBGT ideology into the curriculum.


Now, I think I’ve given you enough of my time regarding this subject.

You know, for someone who claims to hate Trump, you sure do sound a lot like his supporters

[Malphe II]

The immutable, divinely ordained fact that homosexuality is sinful comes first, all further rationalization is just fluff to help make you look more rational & reasonable. The only thing that could begin change the minds of these folk is a reexamination of their relationship with their faith, until then they'll keep on justifying their cruel beliefs in whatever ways they can. keh

Based on past conversations I expect we might see some kind of response about the harmfulness of exposing children to explicit gay sexual activity. But that of course is nonsense. Obviously the content of classes about LGBT issues is not going to be "Watch these gay people having gay sex", but age appropriate explanations that there is such a thing as lesbian and gay people, there is such a thing as bi people, there is such a thing as trans people, that people have been oppressed on the basis of being LGBT and there has been a civil rights movement resisting this oppression.

And that's the problem for people like Prima Scriptura. Teach children the facts and the history and they will naturally support LGBT rights and oppose anti-LGBT bigotry.

nods I assume their first exposure to LGBT people & culture was through the lens of conservative propaganda's child exploiting bogeymen, hence why the idea of kids even learning that queer people exist feels so weirdly incomprehensible to them? I knew gay people existed since I was like 8-ish & trans people from 10, can't say it was so tricky to understand & I didn't come out of it with some prejudiced notions about uncleanliness without being indoctrinated into those beliefs. The conservative view here is v anachronous to my own lived experiences, it's hard to get through to people whose worldview is so utterly warped.