American Politics X: Is There A Reset Button Around Here?

[Thermodolia]

Until you find say 25% then we might start considering it might be a trend. Either way the majority is still rich.

Here’s another example. The mayor of Montana’s capital; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmot_Collins

Oh boy you are up to 21! How fun.

Besides he’s a veteran. The military gives you a major leg up

[Genivaria]

Here’s another example. The mayor of Montana’s capital; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmot_Collins

Individual examples are not a pattern Lumen, show us data.

In summary: Graphs or it's BS!

Look at this graph!

[Corrian]

Sinema is polling at 16% versus Gallego, the seemingly most likely primary opponent to her.

[Dreria]

It shows you don’t have to be rich to run for office. State legislature or municipal office is a great place to start.

The US is an oligarchy. You need the money to get into most political positions now.

yes it is been known since ancient greek times that elections are oligarchic

[Cannot think of a name]

Actual statistical breakdown of net worth of congress members.

Doesn't really cover people who have been made rich by their position via book sales etc.

[Thermodolia]

Sinema is polling at 16% versus Gallego, the seemingly most likely primary opponent to her.

Oh hey look it’s my Representative and fellow marine

[Hemakral]

Sinema is polling at 16% versus Gallego, the seemingly most likely primary opponent to her.

haha, get fucked sinema

Actual statistical breakdown of net worth of congress members.

Doesn't really cover people who have been made rich by their position via book sales etc.

Congress is shit because someone with ten million dollars cannot be trusted to care for those with less
color me surprised

[Cannot think of a name]

Sinema is polling at 16% versus Gallego, the seemingly most likely primary opponent to her.

haha, get fucked sinema

Actual statistical breakdown of net worth of congress members.

Doesn't really cover people who have been made rich by their position via book sales etc.

Congress is shit because someone with ten million dollars cannot be trusted to care for those with less
color me surprised

Skinny jeans take.

[Forsher]

How many examples would you like?

Until you find say 25% then we might start considering it might be a trend. Either way the majority is still rich.

Trend is entirely the wrong word here. Admittedly, I don't know what the right word is.

In general, you'd expect wealthier politicians as the salary of their office increases and as the number of people they represent increases. There would probably also be an effect from the wealth of the people they represent.

So... if you had a small area with a low salary and probably not very wealthy constituents, the trend would suggest that you wouldn't have an overly wealthy politician. So, if there were lots of such areas, you'd expect lots of not overly wealthy politicians. That'd be the trend.

It seems SL is trying to argue something more like there's a weak relationship between being wealthy and being able to become a politician... in principle, that's more like arguing there isn't a trend.

[San Lumen]

https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2022/01/ ... city-says/

Mayor Of Hyattsville Kevin Ward Dies By Apparent Suicide, City Says

Hyattsville is a suburb of DC located in Prince George’s County, Maryland.

[Shrillland]

Until you find say 25% then we might start considering it might be a trend. Either way the majority is still rich.

Trend is entirely the wrong word here. Admittedly, I don't know what the right word is.

In general, you'd expect wealthier politicians as the salary of their office increases and as the number of people they represent increases. There would probably also be an effect from the wealth of the people they represent.

So... if you had a small area with a low salary and probably not very wealthy constituents, the trend would suggest that you wouldn't have an overly wealthy politician. So, if there were lots of such areas, you'd expect lots of not overly wealthy politicians. That'd be the trend.

It seems SL is trying to argue something more like there's a weak relationship between being wealthy and being able to become a politician... in principle, that's more like arguing there isn't a trend.

Ironically, the reverse is actually true. Higher salaries actually encourage people who aren't as wealthy to run for smaller offices since they don't have to have a lot of money from working or owning a business. At least, that's the theory, and it's a theory that could work better if campaigning wasn't anywhere near as expensive or time-consuming as it is. Remember, the US made it so Congress set its own salary because, at the time, Parliament in Westminster didn't pay anything and wouldn't until 1905, meaning that you already had to be rich and prominent to even run for office. AOC cases are absurdly rare, yes, but as long as the annual salary can be seen by working people as a step up, they won't be absolutely impossible.

Having said that, money certainly dominates politics and who can run for office today to an unholy extent, though I do not know the solution to this problem myself.

[Forsher]

Trend is entirely the wrong word here. Admittedly, I don't know what the right word is.

In general, you'd expect wealthier politicians as the salary of their office increases and as the number of people they represent increases. There would probably also be an effect from the wealth of the people they represent.

So... if you had a small area with a low salary and probably not very wealthy constituents, the trend would suggest that you wouldn't have an overly wealthy politician. So, if there were lots of such areas, you'd expect lots of not overly wealthy politicians. That'd be the trend.

It seems SL is trying to argue something more like there's a weak relationship between being wealthy and being able to become a politician... in principle, that's more like arguing there isn't a trend.

Ironically, the reverse is actually true. Higher salaries actually encourage people who aren't as wealthy to run for smaller offices since they don't have to have a lot of money from working or owning a business. At least, that's the theory, and it's a theory that could work better if campaigning wasn't anywhere near as expensive or time-consuming as it is. Remember, the US made it so Congress set its own salary because, at the time, Parliament in Westminster didn't pay anything and wouldn't until 1905, meaning that you already had to be rich and prominent to even run for office. AOC cases are absurdly rare, yes, but as long as the annual salary can be seen by working people as a step up, they won't be absolutely impossible.

Having said that, money certainly dominates politics and who can run for office today to an unholy extent, though I do not know the solution to this problem myself.

As I understood the conversation, we were not talking about running and instead about winning (though, yes, if you're being paid a pittance... and some US mayors earn less than $10,000 a year... I imagine most winners will be independently wealthy simply because no-one else will try for the position; but that's just going to create a non monotonic trend, so my point stands).

[Hemakral]

Skinny jeans take.

you, sir, have just destroyed my credibility, dignity, and self-worth with three words
I applaud you.

https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2022/01/26/mayor-of-hyattsville-dies-by-apparent-suicide-city-says/

Mayor Of Hyattsville Kevin Ward Dies By Apparent Suicide, City Says

Hyattsville is a suburb of DC located in Prince George’s County, Maryland.

Man, that sucks. Dude was barely halfway through his forties, had a family. He should've had another twenty years to live, at least.

if anyone would be interested in an insightful, deeply affecting book on depression you can read in an afternoon, I suggest William Styron's Darkness Visible

It's one of the only books that I've bawled my eyes out over and is quite possibly one of the most inspiring things a clinically depressed person can read, speaking from experience. That and it can be educational for those who don't suffer from MDD, but mostly for the other points

[The Black Forrest]

An associate's degree is still a college's degree unless you are intentionally obtuse.

Column B. It's his whole shtick.

Indeed.

[Forsher]

Dude was barely halfway through his forties, had a family. He should've had another twenty years to live, at least.

35 years, actually.

[The Black Forrest]

Actual statistical breakdown of net worth of congress members.

Doesn't really cover people who have been made rich by their position via book sales etc.

Oh yea. I forget the politician. They were arguing over the unemployment extensions and the amount given. He said he had an epiphany. He looked around the room of millionaires and multi-millionaires arguing over a couple hundred dollars for people out of work and struggling to get by.

People should remember that and sadly they won’t. It’s only about owning the other side.

[Eahland]

Actual statistical breakdown of net worth of congress members.

Doesn't really cover people who have been made rich by their position via book sales etc.

Oh yea. I forget the politician. They were arguing over the unemployment extensions and the amount given. He said he had an epiphany. He looked around the room of millionaires and multi-millionaires arguing over a couple hundred dollars for people out of work and struggling to get by.

People should remember that and sadly they won’t. It’s only about owning the other side.

I've been kicking around the idea that Congresscritters should be required to forfeit their personal assets when elected, and their salary should be fixed to the federal minimum wage.

[Thermodolia]

Oh yea. I forget the politician. They were arguing over the unemployment extensions and the amount given. He said he had an epiphany. He looked around the room of millionaires and multi-millionaires arguing over a couple hundred dollars for people out of work and struggling to get by.

People should remember that and sadly they won’t. It’s only about owning the other side.

I've been kicking around the idea that Congresscritters should be required to forfeit their personal assets when elected, and their salary should be fixed to the federal minimum wage.

Demand they have to pay for their healthcare too and limit the amount of paid days off to the national average.

Watch as healthcare becomes free , the federal minimum wage jumps to $25, and the average mandatory paid days off jumps to 20

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Heres a state legislator in New Hampshire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Labranche

Survived stage 3 colon cancer as a ten year old, in America.

here's one from West Virginia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Holstein

In a Bachelor of Arts programme.

Here is the current speaker of the Maine House of Representatives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Fecteau

Oh hey look yet another guy who went to a super rich university.

This is a gish gallop btw.

[Kowani]

Arizona GOP bill would force teachers to out LGBT+ students to parents

Arizona Republicans this week lined up behind a measure that would discipline teachers and open them up to lawsuits if they don’t tell parents everything a student tells in them — even if the student confides that he or she is gay or transgender.

The legislation, House Bill 2161, would make it illegal for a government employee to withhold information that is “relevant to the physical, emotional or mental health of the parent’s child,” and specifically prevents teachers from withholding information about a student’s “purported gender identity” or a request to transition to a gender other than the “student’s biological sex.”

The bill would allow parents to sue school districts if teachers don’t comply. Rep. Steve Kaiser, R-Phoenix, the bill’s sponsor, argued in the House Education Committee on Jan. 25 that the aim of the legislation is to reign in surveys sent out by schools that have made headlines in a number of states and locally. The bill also aims to allow parents additional access to certain medical records.

“I still feel this bill is not ready for prime time,” Rep. Daniel Hernandez, D-Tucson, said, adding that he felt there was some merit to schools surveying students. “This bill could’ve been done without this inclusion or without the trivialization of transgender children.”

Kaiser initially said the bill was created via a “stakeholder group” and his “own inherent passion” for the issue. But when Hernandez pressed him on which stakeholders were involved in drafting the bill, Kaiser admitted he didn’t work with education groups or teachers, but with anti-LGBTQ advocacy groups — chief among them the Center for Arizona Policy, a conservative Christian lobbying organization that has pushed numerous controversial and bigoted bills since forming in 1995. CAP holds sway with most Republican lawmakers and Gov. Doug Ducey, and is widely considered one of the most powerful lobbying groups at the state Capitol.

“I know you have a long-standing (dislike) of that organization. I understand where the bait was in that question,” Kaiser told Hernandez, who is gay. “I’m not sure what education group I’d go to, because they’d be against this.”

Another stakeholder that Kaiser consulted is Family Watch International, which the Southern Poverty Law Center has designated an anti-LGBTQ hate group. That group also has its fingerprints on another piece of legislation that would ban any books that have “sexually explicit” content and that critics say would effectively make it illegal to teach about homosexuality.

Supporters of the bill said it was necessary to punish teachers in order to bring transparency to schools, who they said have been asking “inappropriate questions.” Some said the $500 fine for school districts in the bill’s language was not large enough, a thought echoed by Rep. John Fillmore, R-Apache Junction, who said that was a “drop in the bucket” for a school district and asked Kaiser if he’d agree to increase the amount.

Jeanne Casteen, the executive director of the Arizona Secular Coalition and a former teacher, worried about how the reporting function of the bill would impact child abuse. Teachers are mandatory reporters, and Casteen said that every time she had to report child abuse, it was being inflicted by a parent. Under Kaiser’s bill, she said, a teacher would also have to notify the parents — the likely abusers — that the child informed them of the abuse.

“I keep hearing about parental rights, but what about the rights of these students?” Casteen said.

One of the speakers for the other side was Nicole Eidson with a parent group called “Moms for Liberty” known for frequenting Chandler Unified School District meetings and complaining about alleged racism education and training.

“I’ve been hearing a lot about that kids have rights, but in my household, I gotta say, it is a dictatorship,” Eidson said, adding that schools have “no right” to put forward what is “right” for her to do in her household.

Although the bill cleared the committee along party-lines with Republican support, Rep. Joel John, R-Arlington, acknowledged there may be situations where a student may be more comfortable confiding with their teacher than with a parent.

John said that Kaiser will need to seek changes to the bill, specifically the issues relating to outing students, if he wants his continued support.

[Gravlen]

Meanwhile, the book bannings continue

Continuing the recent spate of conservative book-banning initiatives, The Mcminn County School board just voted to ban the Pulitzer Prize-winning graphic novel “MAUS” by Art Spiegelman from all of its schools, citing the inclusion of words like “God Damn” and “naked pictures” (illustrations) of women. There is no video available of the meeting, but here are the MINUTES in their entirety.

We called the board and asked if the book being about the Holocaust had anything to do with the decision, and were told it did not. Still, the climate of conservative censorship, the passage of history-whitewashing laws that threaten fines to teachers who teach the truth, and the push towards the banning of books across the state by groups like “Moms for Liberty” makes it fair to question the timing.

The Vote was 10-0, with Yes votes from: Denise Cunningham, Bill Irvin, Quinten Howard, Sharon Brown, Mike Cochran, Mike Lowry, Donna Casteel, Jonathan Pierce, Tony Allman, Rob Shamblin.

Much of the discussion revolved around how books are selected for the curriculum, with finger-pointing at state standards which have become a popular punching bag among conservatives lately. They also discussed the possibility of redacting the words they found objectionable, but decided it would be better to ban the graphic novel altogether.
[…]

Below is what some of the various board members had to say in the meeting (contact info here):

Tony Allman, School Board Member: “Why does the educational system promote this kind of stuff, it is not wise or healthy… I am not denying it was horrible, brutal, and cruel. It’s like when you’re watching tv and a cuss word or nude scene comes on it would be the same movie without it. Well, this would be the same book without it… If I had a child in the eighth grade, this ain’t happening. If I had to move him out and homeschool him or put him somewhere else, this is not happening.”

Jonathan Pierce, School Board Member: “My objection, and I apologize to everyone sitting here, is that my standards matter- and I am probably the biggest sinner and crudest person in this room, can I lay that in front of a child and say read it, or this is part of your reading assignment?”

Mike Cochran, School Board Member: “I went to school here thirteen years. I learned math, English, Reading and History. I never had a book with a naked picture in it, never had one with foul language. In third grade I had one of my classmates come up to me and say hey what’s this word? I sounded it out and it was “damn,” and I was real proud of myself because I sounded it out. She ran straight to the teacher and told her I was cussing. Besides that one book which I think she brought from home, now I’ve seen a cuss word in a textbook at school. So, this idea that we have to have this kind of material in the class in order to teach history, I don’t buy it. “

A few in the room came to the book’s defense. We’re told many teachers in the county are upset about the decision, some seemed in favor of just removing the objectionable words:

Julie Goodin, Instructional Supervisor: “I can talk of the history, I was a history teacher and there is nothing pretty about the Holocaust and for me this was a great way to depict a horrific time in history. Mr. Spiegelman did his very best to depict his mother passing away and we are almost 80 years away. It’s hard for this generation, these kids don’t even know 9/11, they were not even born. For me this was his way to convey the message. Are the words objectionable? Yes, there is no one that thinks they aren’t but by taking away the first part, it’s not changing the meaning of what he is trying to portray and copyright… I have an eighth grader and even if you did pull this book I would want him to read it because we have to teach our kids. Are these words ok? No, not at all that is not acceptable, but the problem is that we are 80 years removed from the Holocaust itself. I just think this is a grave starting point for our teachers. I am very passionate about history, and I would hate to rob our kids of this opportunity. Are we going to be teaching these words outside of this book as vocabulary words? No, you know me better than that Tony Allman. ”

Melasawn Knights, Federal Programs Supervisor: “I think any time you are teaching something from history, people did hang from trees, people did commit suicide and people were killed, over six million were murdered. I think the author is portraying that because it is a true story about his father that lived through that. He is trying to portray that the best he can with the language that he chooses that would relate to that time, maybe to help people who haven’t been in that aspect in time to actually relate to the horrors of it. Is the language objectionable? Sure. I think that is how he uses that language to portray that… We are trying our best to redact the best we can and follow the law and that is what we felt like we have done to address the concerns of that language, the best we could. We think it is a valuable book and most of the supervisors here have read it.”

Steven Brady, Instructional Supervisor: “Every lesson we teach gives us a chance to make a change for the better for our students. When we teach habits of character, we are teaching our students how to be better people. There was a time where that happened every day at home, but when we think about what’s going on now and in the lives our students live in, many of them live in broken homes when they are at one house one day and another house the next. The list goes on and on of the things they have to deal with. Whether we realize it or not, school is the most stable thing in many of our students lives. What students see and hear where they live, may not be appropriate in some settings and we have a chance with every lesson to change what our students see is ok. We get a chance to kind of influence their ethics, their morals, their upbringing. I appreciate the stand that you all are taking to assure the public that we care about our kids, and we believe it’s important to teach our students the difference between right and wrong and help them be ethical people with compassion and morals with respect for others. We are not promoting the use of these words, if anything we are promoting that these words are inappropriate and it’s best that we not use them. It’s inappropriate for school, for our conversation here and you may hear that at home, you may see that on tv, but we do not promote that. There are many lessons that can be learned through this book about how we treat others, how we speak, things that we say, how we act and how to persevere. I just wanted you to get an idea of why these lessons are structured like they are and how this text is just surrounded by excerpts and articles and the things we do to build that background knowledge and the opportunity we have to make a difference in our students lives.”

Maus? That's saying the quiet part out loud...

Well, at least the liar who came into the thread to claim that only Republicans cared about free speech has been categorically trounced.

[American Legionaries]

Meanwhile, the book bannings continue

Continuing the recent spate of conservative book-banning initiatives, The Mcminn County School board just voted to ban the Pulitzer Prize-winning graphic novel “MAUS” by Art Spiegelman from all of its schools, citing the inclusion of words like “God Damn” and “naked pictures” (illustrations) of women. There is no video available of the meeting, but here are the MINUTES in their entirety.

We called the board and asked if the book being about the Holocaust had anything to do with the decision, and were told it did not. Still, the climate of conservative censorship, the passage of history-whitewashing laws that threaten fines to teachers who teach the truth, and the push towards the banning of books across the state by groups like “Moms for Liberty” makes it fair to question the timing.

The Vote was 10-0, with Yes votes from: Denise Cunningham, Bill Irvin, Quinten Howard, Sharon Brown, Mike Cochran, Mike Lowry, Donna Casteel, Jonathan Pierce, Tony Allman, Rob Shamblin.

Much of the discussion revolved around how books are selected for the curriculum, with finger-pointing at state standards which have become a popular punching bag among conservatives lately. They also discussed the possibility of redacting the words they found objectionable, but decided it would be better to ban the graphic novel altogether.
[…]

Below is what some of the various board members had to say in the meeting (contact info here):


A few in the room came to the book’s defense. We’re told many teachers in the county are upset about the decision, some seemed in favor of just removing the objectionable words:

Maus? That's saying the quiet part out loud...

Well, at least the liar who came into the thread to claim that only Republicans cared about free speech has been categorically trounced.

To be fair, Maus has some pretty damned haunting imagery, the cartoon style softens it some, but that shit can mess with a kid.

It's an amazing book, but distributing it to pre-teens seems risky.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

Can you stop making these dismissive, smug posts? This is all you ever respond with and they're really not impressive.

Try understanding things a little more and I just might.

That's called a false premise.

[Forsher]

I've been kicking around the idea that Congresscritters should be required to forfeit their personal assets when elected, and their salary should be fixed to the federal minimum wage.

The asset forfeiture is just going to end up in trusts (I guess you can ban Congresscritters from being beneficiaries, as well) or with spouses (worst case scenario, you get 50% of it back via divorces). Looking from the outside in, it seems to me that US politics is already extremely hostile to unmarried people so that's something to think about there.

As Shrilland pointed out, paying politicians handsomely makes the job more attractive to low income applicants, so fixing it at the minimum wage seems extremely undesirable. And I'd suggest that you just increase the minimum wage in proportion to percentage increases the Congresscritters give themselves but they've failed to do that since, iirc, 2009 so that just seems like it'll backfire.

[Gravlen]

Maus? That's saying the quiet part out loud...

Well, at least the liar who came into the thread to claim that only Republicans cared about free speech has been categorically trounced.

To be fair, Maus has some pretty damned haunting imagery, the cartoon style softens it some, but that shit can mess with a kid.

It's an amazing book, but distributing it to pre-teens seems risky.

"Risky"?

Are you having a fucking laugh? That's utter bullshit. There's no risk involved in any meaningful sense of the word. Perhaps you risk young people being disgusted by the events of the Holocaust, but if anything that's a good thing.

Besides, who's talking about pre-teens? This move bans the book from high schools as well as elementary schools. High schoolers and teenagers are not too young to learn about these things. Anti-Semitism isn't dead. Evidently, nazism and facism isn't an historical artifact, but something which exists in present day. It's more risky to not teach about the horrors of the Holocaust.

The worst part is that they hide behind profanity and a single picture of a naked mouse as an excuse here.