American Politics X: Is There A Reset Button Around Here?

[San Lumen]

Gerrymandering go brrrrrt

NY is possibly going with a 23-3 map.

Excellent. Democrats can't take the high road when it comes to redistricting. The state senate map is going to be brutal for Republicans as well. The current two thirds majority was won on a Republican gerrymander.

[The Jamesian Republic]

what are you talking about?

The suppression of the Green Party on the Wisconsin ballot by legal challenge by Democrats in 2020. Democratic hypocrisy is my point. They're right that the GOP is stealing elections, and that is wrong. They're also wrong to forget how they seek to suppress opposition to themselves. Remember, the DNC claimed to be a private club in a court of law in response to a lawsuit about their structural manipulation of the 2016 primaries in favor of Hillary over Bernie.

That’s not good either and needs to be exposed too. But we can’t have people just out right denying election results and refusing to accept reality.

[Major-Tom]

what are you talking about?

The suppression of the Green Party on the Wisconsin ballot by legal challenge by Democrats in 2020. Democratic hypocrisy is my point. They're right that the GOP is stealing elections, and that is wrong. They're also wrong to forget how they seek to suppress opposition to themselves. Remember, the DNC claimed to be a private club in a court of law in response to a lawsuit about their structural manipulation of the 2016 primaries in favor of Hillary over Bernie.

We're all hypocrites, yes.

Gerrymandering go brrrrrt

NY is possibly going with a 23-3 map.

That's a chunky.

[Corrian]

Gerrymandering go brrrrrt

NY is possibly going with a 23-3 map.

Excellent. Democrats can't take the high road when it comes to redistricting. The state senate map is going to be brutal for Republicans as well. The current two thirds majority was won on a Republican gerrymander.

I'm honestly surprised NY could potentially get away with this even though they supposedly have an independent redistricting committee.

[San Lumen]

Excellent. Democrats can't take the high road when it comes to redistricting. The state senate map is going to be brutal for Republicans as well. The current two thirds majority was won on a Republican gerrymander.

I'm honestly surprised NY could potentially get away with this even though they supposedly have an independent redistricting committee.

The committee failed to produce a map by the deadline so it falls to the legislature to draw the lines.

[Corrian]

I'm honestly surprised NY could potentially get away with this even though they supposedly have an independent redistricting committee.

The committee failed to produce a map by the deadline so it fails to the legislature to draw the lines.

Great job, committee.

[Novus America]

Then why does Sweden still send some draft dodgers to prison?

Do they?

The article you provided doesn't show draft dodgers being sent to prison, but deserters. There's a difference, which even the article fails to grasp (though not original article in Swedish it links to, which talks about "avhopp".

But Bengt Forssten, head of division at the Swedish Defence Recruitment Agency, said those conscripted could not simply change their minds.

André menar att han aldrig varit intresserad av att göra värnpliktsutbildning men det kommunicerade han inte under antagningsprocessen, något han i dag ångrar.

Rekryteringsmyndigheten, som ansvarar för antagningen, menar att motivation är en viktig faktor i bedömningen av vilka som ska kallas.

Men att en person ändrar inställning eller ångrar sig kan de inte ta hänsyn till, menar Bengt Forssten, avdelningschef på Rekryteringsmyndigheten.

– Det är inte ett skäl att slippa tjänstgöring, att man ångrar sig eller att motivationen ändras.

If you don't actually say you don't want to serve, but go through the recruitment process without voicing any protests, you may indeed face reactions for desertion.

Alternative service is not a punishment, but it is still national service. You are not exempt from national service just because your service is the non-military option.

Perhaps not in Sweden, but in Norway, where there is no such alternative anymore, you would be. That's a similar country with regard to access to higher education, proving your original point false.

Also although it varies country by country the government does not have to automatically accept your claim of being a conscientious objector. It is true in many cases where the number of those making such a request is relatively low, and not preventing the military from reaching its quota, then it may be de facto be automatically granted while those conditions still exist, but they can put the burden on you to prove you are a conscientious objector.

Being a legitimate conscientious objector is a lot more than “I just do not want to do it, because I am lazy or do not want to risk my life”.

Not really.

How do you prove that someone who refuses military service does it because they're lazy, if they just say "no thank you"?

Well yes maybe they should have applied for alternative service, but if you do not apply and get approved, you still get prison. Because you might still get conscripted into a unit and charge with desertion when you do not show up.

You cannot simply not do your national service without adequate reason without consequences.

It varies but it is not in common to require conscientious objectors to provide character references supporting their beliefs, write out why they feel the cannot serve and their reasoning for doing so, being a part of organizations morally opposed to fighting etc.

If you fail to do that or your conscription board does not find your reasoning and support adequate they can reject it and still conscript you in many place.

The burden of proof is generally on the person claiming to be the objector.

Anyways we were specifically mentioning Sweden. I think it funny when people say “we should be more like Sweden” then freak out when the find out Sweden I has conscription.

Norway conscripts some 10,000 of 60,000 eligible so it is pretty easy to avoid as long as 1 out of 6 do not object, but still Norway has social obligations greater than we do. But Norway is not Sweden anyways.

[Antipatros]

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/591597-arizona-bill-would-allow-legislature-to-overturn-election-results

Arizona bill would allow legislature to overturn election result


An arch conservative member of Arizona’s state House of Representatives has proposed a mammoth overhaul of the state’s voting procedures that would allow legislators to overturn the results of a primary or general election after months of unfounded allegations and partisan audits.

The bill, introduced by state Rep. John Fillmore (R), would substantially change the way Arizonans vote by eliminating most early and absentee voting and requiring people to vote in their home precincts, rather than at vote centers set up around the state.

Most dramatically, Fillmore’s bill would require the legislature to hold a special session after an election to review election processes and results, and to “accept or reject the election results.”

This hasn't occurred to me before, but this resembles a weird kind of parliamentarism, doesn't it? These guys essentially want the state legislature to be able to have a say in who the President is.

To me, this stands in opposition to some of the key ideas behind the Constitution. It's not true parliamentarism, of course. For that, the legislature (or legislatures) need to have even more control.

[Hemakral]

reposting cause nobody responded and it's worth discussing
and also because it's messed up

Arizona GOP bill would force teachers to out LGBT+ students to parents

Arizona Republicans this week lined up behind a measure that would discipline teachers and open them up to lawsuits if they don’t tell parents everything a student tells in them — even if the student confides that he or she is gay or transgender.

The legislation, House Bill 2161, would make it illegal for a government employee to withhold information that is “relevant to the physical, emotional or mental health of the parent’s child,” and specifically prevents teachers from withholding information about a student’s “purported gender identity” or a request to transition to a gender other than the “student’s biological sex.”

The bill would allow parents to sue school districts if teachers don’t comply. Rep. Steve Kaiser, R-Phoenix, the bill’s sponsor, argued in the House Education Committee on Jan. 25 that the aim of the legislation is to reign in surveys sent out by schools that have made headlines in a number of states and locally. The bill also aims to allow parents additional access to certain medical records.

“I still feel this bill is not ready for prime time,” Rep. Daniel Hernandez, D-Tucson, said, adding that he felt there was some merit to schools surveying students. “This bill could’ve been done without this inclusion or without the trivialization of transgender children.”

Kaiser initially said the bill was created via a “stakeholder group” and his “own inherent passion” for the issue. But when Hernandez pressed him on which stakeholders were involved in drafting the bill, Kaiser admitted he didn’t work with education groups or teachers, but with anti-LGBTQ advocacy groups — chief among them the Center for Arizona Policy, a conservative Christian lobbying organization that has pushed numerous controversial and bigoted bills since forming in 1995. CAP holds sway with most Republican lawmakers and Gov. Doug Ducey, and is widely considered one of the most powerful lobbying groups at the state Capitol.

“I know you have a long-standing (dislike) of that organization. I understand where the bait was in that question,” Kaiser told Hernandez, who is gay. “I’m not sure what education group I’d go to, because they’d be against this.”

Another stakeholder that Kaiser consulted is Family Watch International, which the Southern Poverty Law Center has designated an anti-LGBTQ hate group. That group also has its fingerprints on another piece of legislation that would ban any books that have “sexually explicit” content and that critics say would effectively make it illegal to teach about homosexuality.

Supporters of the bill said it was necessary to punish teachers in order to bring transparency to schools, who they said have been asking “inappropriate questions.” Some said the $500 fine for school districts in the bill’s language was not large enough, a thought echoed by Rep. John Fillmore, R-Apache Junction, who said that was a “drop in the bucket” for a school district and asked Kaiser if he’d agree to increase the amount.

Jeanne Casteen, the executive director of the Arizona Secular Coalition and a former teacher, worried about how the reporting function of the bill would impact child abuse. Teachers are mandatory reporters, and Casteen said that every time she had to report child abuse, it was being inflicted by a parent. Under Kaiser’s bill, she said, a teacher would also have to notify the parents — the likely abusers — that the child informed them of the abuse.

“I keep hearing about parental rights, but what about the rights of these students?” Casteen said.

One of the speakers for the other side was Nicole Eidson with a parent group called “Moms for Liberty” known for frequenting Chandler Unified School District meetings and complaining about alleged racism education and training.

“I’ve been hearing a lot about that kids have rights, but in my household, I gotta say, it is a dictatorship,” Eidson said, adding that schools have “no right” to put forward what is “right” for her to do in her household.

Although the bill cleared the committee along party-lines with Republican support, Rep. Joel John, R-Arlington, acknowledged there may be situations where a student may be more comfortable confiding with their teacher than with a parent.

John said that Kaiser will need to seek changes to the bill, specifically the issues relating to outing students, if he wants his continued support.

[Neutraligon]

Maus? That's saying the quiet part out loud...

Well, at least the liar who came into the thread to claim that only Republicans cared about free speech has been categorically trounced.

To be fair, Maus has some pretty damned haunting imagery, the cartoon style softens it some, but that shit can mess with a kid.

It's an amazing book, but distributing it to pre-teens seems risky.

That book was specifically created for kids.

[Corrian]

Retiring GOP Texas Senator Kel Seliger has testified under oath that the gerrymandered maps drawn by his party blatantly violate the Voting Rights Act.

[San Lumen]

Retiring GOP Texas Senator Kel Seliger has testified under oath that the gerrymandered maps drawn by his party blatantly violate the Voting Rights Act.

Saying the quiet part out loud. We can't win fairly so we have to cheat.

[Corrian]

Rep. Cori Bush's vehicle hit by gunfire in St. Louis area

According to the source, the vehicle was parked in the St. Louis area and Bush was not in the vehicle at the time and was not injured.

Sounds like it was just a weird incident where her vehicle ended up getting hit.

[San Lumen]

Rep. Cori Bush's vehicle hit by gunfire in St. Louis area

According to the source, the vehicle was parked in the St. Louis area and Bush was not in the vehicle at the time and was not injured.

awful however she was not in the vehicle and is not believed to have been the target.

[Zurkerx]

Retiring GOP Texas Senator Kel Seliger has testified under oath that the gerrymandered maps drawn by his party blatantly violate the Voting Rights Act.

Well, it obviously was. However, the VRA has been butchered to the point that it's virtually useless (we can thank SCOTUS for that). I doubt the maps will be overturn. Even if they are, it will be impossible to get "fair maps" due to the make up of TX' Legislature.

[LDS Mesa]

Rep. Cori Bush's vehicle hit by gunfire in St. Louis area

awful however she was not in the vehicle and is not believed to have been the target.

The DNC hit on her clearly didn't do its homework. Tom Perez is likely calling a new hitman.

[Gravlen]

Do they?

The article you provided doesn't show draft dodgers being sent to prison, but deserters. There's a difference, which even the article fails to grasp (though not original article in Swedish it links to, which talks about "avhopp".

But Bengt Forssten, head of division at the Swedish Defence Recruitment Agency, said those conscripted could not simply change their minds.

André menar att han aldrig varit intresserad av att göra värnpliktsutbildning men det kommunicerade han inte under antagningsprocessen, något han i dag ångrar.

Rekryteringsmyndigheten, som ansvarar för antagningen, menar att motivation är en viktig faktor i bedömningen av vilka som ska kallas.

Men att en person ändrar inställning eller ångrar sig kan de inte ta hänsyn till, menar Bengt Forssten, avdelningschef på Rekryteringsmyndigheten.

– Det är inte ett skäl att slippa tjänstgöring, att man ångrar sig eller att motivationen ändras.

If you don't actually say you don't want to serve, but go through the recruitment process without voicing any protests, you may indeed face reactions for desertion.


Perhaps not in Sweden, but in Norway, where there is no such alternative anymore, you would be. That's a similar country with regard to access to higher education, proving your original point false.


Not really.

How do you prove that someone who refuses military service does it because they're lazy, if they just say "no thank you"?

Well yes maybe they should have applied for alternative service, but if you do not apply and get approved, you still get prison. Because you might still get conscripted into a unit and charge with desertion when you do not show up.

You cannot simply not do your national service without adequate reason without consequences.

The Swedish Defence Conscription and Assessment Agency has a duty to inform the conscripts of the right to conscientious objection to military service. Already at the outset of the selection process, information about conscientious objection is given to everyone that are called up for service through the authority website. If you fail to object, the tacit agreement will have consequences. If you do object, it will be a violation of your human rights under the ECHR if you are punished for your objection.

If someone is sentenced to prison for refusal to participate (not desertion), it's a violation of their rights.

It varies but it is not in common to require conscientious objectors to provide character references supporting their beliefs, write out why they feel the cannot serve and their reasoning for doing so, being a part of organizations morally opposed to fighting etc.

If you fail to do that or your conscription board does not find your reasoning and support adequate they can reject it and still conscript you in many place.

The burden of proof is generally on the person claiming to be the objector.

All you need to do in Sweden is fill out this form. Basically, you state when and how you came to the conclusion that you could not use weapons, whether there's any situations wherein you could see yourself using violence, and what you think you would feel about seeing other people defending the country during a time of war.

In short, the burden of proof is met when you make a claim. You cannot disprove that someone has certain thoughts and feelings about using violence and weapons.

Anyways we were specifically mentioning Sweden. I think it funny when people say “we should be more like Sweden” then freak out when the find out Sweden I has conscription.

Sure, but that often comes from the perspective of someone living in a hawkish and militaristic society, who's no stranger to using military might for imperialistic purposes or pure profitmaking. Of course someone who'd be used as cannon fodder by the US might be scared by the thought of conscription, but that would fail to take into consideration the whole idea of being more like Sweden. The military in Scandinavian countries serve a very different purpose, and is rarely - if ever - deployed outside their own borders in any war or conflict they've initiated.

Norway conscripts some 10,000 of 60,000 eligible so it is pretty easy to avoid as long as 1 out of 6 do not object, but still Norway has social obligations greater than we do. But Norway is not Sweden anyways.

Sure, having to file paperwork is a greater social obligation than not having to file paperwork, but it's not really a big deal.

[LDS Mesa]

Retiring GOP Texas Senator Kel Seliger has testified under oath that the gerrymandered maps drawn by his party blatantly violate the Voting Rights Act.

Saying the quiet part out loud. We can't win fairly so we have to cheat.

Doesn't sound like boasting. Sounds like turning state's evidence.

[Kowani]

Breyer has now officially submitted his retirement letter to Biden

Biden, meanwhile, says he’ll nominate someone by the end of February


…also I think Breyer is ad-libbing his retirement announcement speech

[San Lumen]

Retiring GOP Texas Senator Kel Seliger has testified under oath that the gerrymandered maps drawn by his party blatantly violate the Voting Rights Act.

Well, it obviously was. However, the VRA has been butchered to the point that it's virtually useless (we can thank SCOTUS for that). I doubt the maps will be overturn. Even if they are, it will be impossible to get "fair maps" due to the make up of TX' Legislature.

You can thank Justice Roberts and his stupid reasoning of "Why isn't Massachusetts subject to the same scrutiny as Mississippi?" The answer is simple they don;t have a history of voter suppression.

[Corrian]

awful however she was not in the vehicle and is not believed to have been the target.

The DNC hit on her clearly didn't do its homework. Tom Perez is likely calling a new hitman.

Tom Perez isn't even in charge of the DNC anymore.

[Eahland]

My god. We need this in America.

Conscription?
Funny that many who love to stan the Nordic countries the hardest seem to not want a lot of what they have.

It does not follow that providing free education requires conscription. Societies have both rights and obligations, but the obligations don't necessarily have to be mandatory military service. The U.S. is hardly in a position of needing conscription to bolster its military numbers... the U.S. military as it stands is all-volunteer, and the most powerful in the world.

Note that we already have mandatory draft registration for all 18­–25-year-old males, but we haven't actually used it in almost fifty years.

[Corrian]

To be honest I'm still kinda surprised Biden's approvals are so low. Its kinda disheartening. Even though I do actually agree there's been a lot of disappointments, but it feels more like a congress problem than a Biden problem. I'm sure its a bit of the fact COVID is still rampant and the problems that causes, but I don't know. He's seen record economy growth, has lots of very good firsts, more judges than ever confirmed (Which I get not everyone would approve of), etc. I feel like a lot of the issues are more outside his control than anything so far, and its tanking his approval because of that. Its just bizarre to me how you can have record growth as a President and still have your approval absolutely tanked. And its also disheartening that people think the alternative is the party that did all these terrible things recently. This place really makes no sense.

Though I get his approvals are down with probably a lot of leftist independents and some annoyed Democrats, but its still bizarre. I wouldn't exactly say I'm a glowing supporter of his, and that probably doesn't help his approvals either, I just don't get how we keep having this system of flip flopping back and forth.

Basically, yet another day of "Why am I still here?". Its a repeating cycle and it just feels like an absolute dead end with progress because of it.

[San Lumen]

To be honest I'm still kinda surprised Biden's approvals are so low. Its kinda disheartening. Even though I do actually agree there's been a lot of disappointments, but it feels more like a congress problem than a Biden problem. I'm sure its a bit of the fact COVID is still rampant and the problems that causes, but I don't know. He's seen record economy growth, has lots of very good firsts, more judges than ever confirmed (Which I get not everyone would approve of), etc. I feel like a lot of the issues are more outside his control than anything so far, and its tanking his approval because of that. Its just bizarre to me how you can have record growth as a President and still have your approval absolutely tanked. And its also disheartening that people think the alternative is the party that did all these terrible things recently. This place really makes no sense.

Though I get his approvals are down with probably a lot of leftist independents and some annoyed Democrats, but its still bizarre. I wouldn't exactly say I'm a glowing supporter of his, and that probably doesn't help his approvals either, I just don't get how we keep having this system of flip flopping back and forth.

Basically, yet another day of "Why am I still here?". Its a repeating cycle and it just feels like an absolute dead end with progress because of it.

Massive swings every two years aren't sustainable. It's as if winning the presidency has become a punishment for that party.

[Thermodolia]

Conscription?
Funny that many who love to stan the Nordic countries the hardest seem to not want a lot of what they have.

It does not follow that providing free education requires conscription. Societies have both rights and obligations, but the obligations don't necessarily have to be mandatory military service. The U.S. is hardly in a position of needing conscription to bolster its military numbers... the U.S. military as it stands is all-volunteer, and the most powerful in the world.

Note that we already have mandatory draft registration for all 18­–25-year-old males, but we haven't actually used it in almost fifty years.

No the obligation could be fulfilled by say being a part of a new Civilian Conservation Corps. Where you can learn a skill, get paid, see the US and serve your nation.

Or a medical corps or an environmental protection corps all in addition to military service