Cameron's "Big Society" is a shower of shite.

[Neu Leonstein]

Labour did loads of good things. What's ruined is the stuff they didn't fix from the Tories, like the banking system. Brown increased the regulations (slightly), but the system seemed to be working (and this time for the less well off too) so they didn't change much. You can blame Labour for 'not fixing the roof while the sun was shining', but the Tories broke the roof beforehand.

That's like really, really not how the Labour Party saw it. It seems rather crazy for anyone to blame the Tories for Britain's mess right now, given that they've been out of government and an ineffectual opposition for 13 years. And Brown was a really shitty Chancellor of the Exchequer and not a much better PM, to boot.

[Demented Tigers]

Labour did loads of good things. What's ruined is the stuff they didn't fix from the Tories, like the banking system. Brown increased the regulations (slightly), but the system seemed to be working (and this time for the less well off too) so they didn't change much. You can blame Labour for 'not fixing the roof while the sun was shining', but the Tories broke the roof beforehand.

That's like really, really not how the Labour Party saw it. It seems rather crazy for anyone to blame the Tories for Britain's mess right now, given that they've been out of government and an ineffectual opposition for 13 years. And Brown was a really shitty Chancellor of the Exchequer and not a much better PM, to boot.

Well seeing as the Tories deregulated the banks (they allowed the banks to practice voluntary self-regulation for heavens sake!), i think my point that Labour didn't fix all the problems from beforehand is valid. Blaming Labour for everything is also crazy since what broke is the stuff they didn't change. They do both deserve the blame, but it was a GLOBAL crisis, started by the American sub-prime mortgages. Also remember that until the economic crisis occurred, Brown was hailed as the best chancellor ever.

[Frozopia]

Labour did loads of good things. What's ruined is the stuff they didn't fix from the Tories, like the banking system. Brown increased the regulations (slightly), but the system seemed to be working (and this time for the less well off too) so they didn't change much. You can blame Labour for 'not fixing the roof while the sun was shining', but the Tories broke the roof beforehand.

That's like really, really not how the Labour Party saw it. It seems rather crazy for anyone to blame the Tories for Britain's mess right now, given that they've been out of government and an ineffectual opposition for 13 years. And Brown was a really shitty Chancellor of the Exchequer and not a much better PM, to boot.

Well seeing as the Tories deregulated the banks (they allowed the banks to practice voluntary self-regulation for heavens sake!), i think my point that Labour didn't fix all the problems from beforehand is valid. Blaming Labour for everything is also crazy since what broke is the stuff they didn't change. They do both deserve the blame, but it was a GLOBAL crisis, started by the American sub-prime mortgages. Also remember that until the economic crisis occurred, Brown was hailed as the best chancellor ever.

Perhaps he would be less to blame if he didn't make outlandish claims such as "No return to boom and bust". If you're going to claim credit for something when its going good, you'll have to admit failure when its going bad. That aside, Brown has ACCEPTED responsibility for the banking crisis.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009 ... regulation

Anyways all this finger pointing is absurd. I can just as easily argue that in 1997 the conservatives left the economy in its strongest position in years (the years of growth that followed certainly suggest as much) but Labour in 2010 have left it in ruin. Just like '79, a Conservative government picking up the mess after a Labour one. Somethings never change.

[Angleter]

Labour did loads of good things. What's ruined is the stuff they didn't fix from the Tories, like the banking system. Brown increased the regulations (slightly), but the system seemed to be working (and this time for the less well off too) so they didn't change much. You can blame Labour for 'not fixing the roof while the sun was shining', but the Tories broke the roof beforehand.

That's like really, really not how the Labour Party saw it. It seems rather crazy for anyone to blame the Tories for Britain's mess right now, given that they've been out of government and an ineffectual opposition for 13 years. And Brown was a really shitty Chancellor of the Exchequer and not a much better PM, to boot.

Well seeing as the Tories deregulated the banks (they allowed the banks to practice voluntary self-regulation for heavens sake!), i think my point that Labour didn't fix all the problems from beforehand is valid. Blaming Labour for everything is also crazy since what broke is the stuff they didn't change. They do both deserve the blame, but it was a GLOBAL crisis, started by the American sub-prime mortgages. Also remember that until the economic crisis occurred, Brown was hailed as the best chancellor ever.

So, all that deregulation, all that talk of 'light-touch' in the 1997-2007 era- that was the Tories? Failing to recognise a boom when you're riding on one- that was the Tories? Stubbornly continuing to introduce HIPs just as the housing market boom began to end- that was the Tories? That blasé 'We have the City' mood as our advanced industries (not coal or steel, but the ones that fuel the German economy) were lost to Europe- that was the Tories? The massive spending and unwillingness to save up while riding the boom- that was the Tories? The sale of gold at the lowest price to buy Euros instead, even when the Euro had massive, country-sized flaws- that was the Tories?

He was hailed as the best Chancellor ever because he was riding a boom to its fullest potential. The moment the bust came, it all went horribly wrong.

[North Suran]

Anyways all this finger pointing is absurd. I can just as easily argue that in 1997 the conservatives left the economy in its strongest position in years

"Strongest position in years"?

Oh, sure. Everyone remembers how great the 1990s were for the economy.

(the years of growth that followed certainly suggest as much)

That makes about as much sense as blaming Nick Clegg and David Cameron for Britain's present poor economic growth.

but Labour in 2010 have left it in ruin.

Don't be absurd.

The UK is technically out of Recession now. As long as the Tories and the Lib Dems don't fuck up the economy with their immediate budget cuts, it should remain that way. Britain is in a far more favourable position than Spain, Portugal and Greece. Gordon Brown's management of the economic crisis does him credit; he spearheaded a pan-European initative to prevent the total collapse of the financial sectors, monitored unemployment and kept inflation under control. Compare and contrast to the 1980s Recession, where - under Maggie Thatcher - unemployment shot to its highest level since the 1930s and inflation was in the double digits.

Just like '79, a Conservative government picking up the mess after a Labour one. Somethings never change.

Because everyone remembers what a great job Edward Heath, the Tory Prime Minister, did for the economy from 1970-1974.

[Urgolon]

And here's why it's utter balls : Volunteers Are Not Suitable To Do The Work of a Modern Government. Charity is an extremely capricious way to sort out society's problems. People might volunteer to sort out local schools, and then stop when their child is better off. People might create local jobs for themselves, but stop after their nepotistic little enterprise is running under its own steam.

People might continue to support schools and they might still create jobs. Or they might make a bomb and kill everyone in the area.

There is a reason why primary school teachers ban "Wat-if" questions: there are endless possibilities.

[Lacadaemon]

[
The UK is technically out of Recession now. As long as the Tories and the Lib Dems don't fuck up the economy with their immediate budget cuts, it should remain that way. Britain is in a far more favourable position than Spain, Portugal and Greece. Gordon Brown's management of the economic crisis does him credit; he spearheaded a pan-European initative to prevent the total collapse of the financial sectors, monitored unemployment and kept inflation under control. Compare and contrast to the 1980s Recession, where - under Maggie Thatcher - unemployment shot to its highest level since the 1930s and inflation was in the double digits.

We are talking about this universe, not the one where Spock has a beard. Gordon Brown's economic legacy is a disaster. He presided over an unprecedented streak of mal-investment and accumulation of debt, which has left the UK in an extremely vulnerable state.

As to it being in a more favorable position than the PIGS, that is only because the UK retains a sovereign currency, and so is able to devalue its currency more easily. Also, had Merv the Swerve not basically 'bought' the float of UK debt last year, the UK would be proper fucked up right now, no two ways about it.

However, once the true extent of the UK's government obligations come to light, nobody will trust Gordon with a whelk stall.

[Hydesland]

That's like really, really not how the Labour Party saw it. It seems rather crazy for anyone to blame the Tories for Britain's mess right now, given that they've been out of government and an ineffectual opposition for 13 years. And Brown was a really shitty Chancellor of the Exchequer and not a much better PM, to boot.

He was OK relative to anyone else at the time, he actually used intelligent reasoning to assess if we should have joined the Euro or not, instead of partisan bullshit, and managed to ensure that we didn't. He also managed the crisis as PM a lot better than the US did, in my opinion. True he did nothing to prevent the crisis, but that was more because of herd mentality than anything else.

[Demented Tigers]

Labour did loads of good things. What's ruined is the stuff they didn't fix from the Tories, like the banking system. Brown increased the regulations (slightly), but the system seemed to be working (and this time for the less well off too) so they didn't change much. You can blame Labour for 'not fixing the roof while the sun was shining', but the Tories broke the roof beforehand.

That's like really, really not how the Labour Party saw it. It seems rather crazy for anyone to blame the Tories for Britain's mess right now, given that they've been out of government and an ineffectual opposition for 13 years. And Brown was a really shitty Chancellor of the Exchequer and not a much better PM, to boot.

Well seeing as the Tories deregulated the banks (they allowed the banks to practice voluntary self-regulation for heavens sake!), i think my point that Labour didn't fix all the problems from beforehand is valid. Blaming Labour for everything is also crazy since what broke is the stuff they didn't change. They do both deserve the blame, but it was a GLOBAL crisis, started by the American sub-prime mortgages. Also remember that until the economic crisis occurred, Brown was hailed as the best chancellor ever.

So, all that deregulation, all that talk of 'light-touch' in the 1997-2007 era- that was the Tories? Failing to recognise a boom when you're riding on one- that was the Tories? Stubbornly continuing to introduce HIPs just as the housing market boom began to end- that was the Tories? That blasé 'We have the City' mood as our advanced industries (not coal or steel, but the ones that fuel the German economy) were lost to Europe- that was the Tories? The massive spending and unwillingness to save up while riding the boom- that was the Tories? The sale of gold at the lowest price to buy Euros instead, even when the Euro had massive, country-sized flaws- that was the Tories?

He was hailed as the best Chancellor ever because he was riding a boom to its fullest potential. The moment the bust came, it all went horribly wrong.

Rather than just hitting back, you could always reread my post and realise that I am blaming both parties. People are either saying that everything in this country is totally fucked and it is all Brown's fault, or they are saying that its all a hangover from the Tories. I'm saying it's a bit of both, and if you don't realise that it cant just one party or the other, then you really are blind.

[Frozopia]

snip

snip

lol my point was that either claim is ridiculous. I'm not so in love with the conservative party that I cannot see their flaws and mistakes. However I do find that the state of a economy under one government is generally the result of economic decisions made by the previous. The conservatives, regardless what happened before, did leave in 97 with the countries economy in a very strong position for growth.

[Angleter]

Labour did loads of good things. What's ruined is the stuff they didn't fix from the Tories, like the banking system. Brown increased the regulations (slightly), but the system seemed to be working (and this time for the less well off too) so they didn't change much. You can blame Labour for 'not fixing the roof while the sun was shining', but the Tories broke the roof beforehand.

That's like really, really not how the Labour Party saw it. It seems rather crazy for anyone to blame the Tories for Britain's mess right now, given that they've been out of government and an ineffectual opposition for 13 years. And Brown was a really shitty Chancellor of the Exchequer and not a much better PM, to boot.

Well seeing as the Tories deregulated the banks (they allowed the banks to practice voluntary self-regulation for heavens sake!), i think my point that Labour didn't fix all the problems from beforehand is valid. Blaming Labour for everything is also crazy since what broke is the stuff they didn't change. They do both deserve the blame, but it was a GLOBAL crisis, started by the American sub-prime mortgages. Also remember that until the economic crisis occurred, Brown was hailed as the best chancellor ever.

So, all that deregulation, all that talk of 'light-touch' in the 1997-2007 era- that was the Tories? Failing to recognise a boom when you're riding on one- that was the Tories? Stubbornly continuing to introduce HIPs just as the housing market boom began to end- that was the Tories? That blasé 'We have the City' mood as our advanced industries (not coal or steel, but the ones that fuel the German economy) were lost to Europe- that was the Tories? The massive spending and unwillingness to save up while riding the boom- that was the Tories? The sale of gold at the lowest price to buy Euros instead, even when the Euro had massive, country-sized flaws- that was the Tories?

He was hailed as the best Chancellor ever because he was riding a boom to its fullest potential. The moment the bust came, it all went horribly wrong.

Rather than just hitting back, you could always reread my post and realise that I am blaming both parties. People are either saying that everything in this country is totally fucked and it is all Brown's fault, or they are saying that its all a hangover from the Tories. I'm saying it's a bit of both, and if you don't realise that it cant just one party or the other, then you really are blind.

Except you're clearly laying most of the blame at the Tories' door, and saying that they are ultimately responsible for everything that went wrong- your criticism of Labour extends no further than the fact that they didn't change the economic policies the Tories left behind. I'm pointing out that Labour, far from remaining dormant and letting the Tories' policies carry us to the economic crisis, in fact did put their own stamp on Britain's economics, and in doing what they did made it much worse.

[Glorious Homeland]

Sorry. It is quite hard to effectively argue, when the first posts start with pathetic beliefs about how the Tories are going to ruin Britain.

There is nothing left to ruin. Labour already took their cheapshots on everything.

Labour did loads of good things. What's ruined is the stuff they didn't fix from the Tories, like the banking system. Brown increased the regulations (slightly), but the system seemed to be working (and this time for the less well off too) so they didn't change much. You can blame Labour for 'not fixing the roof while the sun was shining', but the Tories broke the roof beforehand.

Disagreeable, Thatcher had to clean up the mess of old Labour management. Look up the winter of discontent. And even then, did Labour; new or old, eradicate poverty in the UK? No, bloody useless. The conservatives are worse socially, but Labour are little better.

[Leistung]

The public sector will lose jobs?! But they're so efficient! How can anyone want to get rid of them?!

[Allbeama]

Sounds like a policy American Conservatives would love.

[Kayliea]

"Prime Minister David Cameron has welcomed Conservative predecessor Baroness Thatcher back to 10 Downing Street for a reception in her honour.
They shook hands and waved at photographers before entering the building but did not answer questions.
A smiling Mr Cameron said: "It's good to have her back."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10268442.stm

thatcher scum.

[Kamsaki]

A smiling Mr Cameron said: "It's good to have her back."

Don't worry; it's just a plot to rescue Cameron's image among the "Blessed Chris"es of the conservative party. He doesn't mean it.

... I hope. Eep.

[Vonners]

A smiling Mr Cameron said: "It's good to have her back."

Don't worry; it's just a plot to rescue Cameron's image among the "Blessed Chris"es of the conservative party. He doesn't mean it.

... I hope. Eep.

The Blessed Chris's of the world joined UKIP....

[Rhursbourg]

i wonder what be like in my lil old market town considering the hospital is run by the local doctors

[Vonners]

i wonder what be like in my lil old market town considering the hospital is run by the local doctors

It'll be shut down and outsourced to Lincoln...

(long time no see btw...! who's gonna org the next NSG meetup?!?)

[Chumblywumbly]

A smiling Mr Cameron said: "It's good to have her back."

An odd PR move, considering he's trying to convince us we're not returning to the 1980s.

[Lacadaemon]

A smiling Mr Cameron said: "It's good to have her back."

An odd PR move, considering he's trying to convince us we're not returning to the 1980s.

Ha, people will be looking back at the 80s fondly before this is over.

[Treznor]

A smiling Mr Cameron said: "It's good to have her back."

An odd PR move, considering he's trying to convince us we're not returning to the 1980s.

Ha, people will be looking back at the 80s fondly before this is over.

When they finish gutting the public programs and privatizing industries, they certainly will.

"Why the hell did we believe these idiots? When they invited Thatcher back to 10 Downing, we should have seen it coming."

[Angleter]

Didn't Brown invite Baroness Thatcher to Number 10? How is this somehow different to that event?

[Chumblywumbly]

Didn't Brown invite Baroness Thatcher to Number 10? How is this somehow different to that event?

Blair and Brown both invited Thatcher to Number 10.

The symbolism, intentional or not, is telling here.

[Vonners]

Didn't Brown invite Baroness Thatcher to Number 10? How is this somehow different to that event?

Blair and Brown both invited Thatcher to Number 10.

The symbolism, intentional or not, is telling here.

I see the Lib Dems craftily managed not to get involved...