Cuba vaxx. more than 90% of its population, despite embargo

[The Huskar Social Union]

Well done to Cuba. Also yes the embargo should end but we all know that aint gona happen.

[Dreria]

I only support vaccines when cuba does it

[Novus America]

Well done to Cuba. I cannot say much, as I’ve not at all monitored Cuba’s situation over the past couple of years, but I get a sense of ‘quiet competence’ on this matter specifically. Something that a great many supposedly rich and powerful states lack to the point it’s downright depressing. Again, kudos to them (Cuba).

They also had large protests by the heavily black population being brutalized by a very white regime but yes, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[Novus America]

Yeah, the embargo at this point is silly, and only exists to get the votes of a couple of old farts in Florida. The US does business with far worse regimes all the time, and Cuba’s barely a threat to boot.

Kudos to Cuba for that high vaccination rate, though truth be told that’s not surprising. The country is well-known for its focus on healthcare.

I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.

Sure we do business with the PRC which is far worse and more dangerous but the solution is not to do more business with the Cuban regime but to do much LESS business with the PRC. I wish we would put out MORE embargoes, a Cuban style embargo on the PRC is my dream (not going to happen but one can still dream). Now if you said “drop it on Cuba AND put one on the PRC because that would be a better situation” I could perhaps get behind that.

But not repeating what is suicidal stupidity in other cases just because we have stupidly done it in other cases.

Whether or not we keep, lift or modify the situation with Cuba should be judged on its own merits, not because of a two wrongs make a right type argument.

[Ordained Italy]

I believe the Embargo must end as well

but concerning vaccines. I believe that anti-vaxers should be jailed for endangering public health.
Freedom of an individual should end where the freedom of other begin.

That's actually insane

[Great Algerstonia]

I can't support this because they probably stole America's vaccines

[Fauzjhia]

I believe the Embargo must end as well

but concerning vaccines. I believe that anti-vaxers should be jailed for endangering public health.
Freedom of an individual should end where the freedom of other begin.

That's actually insane

because you think Cuba support freedom to get vaccinated or not.
Edit : well. I should search a bit more on that subject, to see how Cuba deal with the Anti-vax
but its clear that the government take the covid-19 crisis seriously.

[Grenartia]

Yeah, the embargo at this point is silly, and only exists to get the votes of a couple of old farts in Florida. The US does business with far worse regimes all the time, and Cuba’s barely a threat to boot.

Kudos to Cuba for that high vaccination rate, though truth be told that’s not surprising. The country is well-known for its focus on healthcare.

I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.

Sure we do business with the PRC which is far worse and more dangerous but the solution is not to do more business with the Cuban regime but to do much LESS business with the PRC. I wish we would put out MORE embargoes, a Cuban style embargo on the PRC is my dream (not going to happen but one can still dream). Now if you said “drop it on Cuba AND put one on the PRC because that would be a better situation” I could perhaps get behind that.

But not repeating what is suicidal stupidity in other cases just because we have stupidly done it in other cases.

Whether or not we keep, lift or modify the situation with Cuba should be judged on its own merits, not because of a two wrongs make a right type argument.

While I agree we should stop trading with the PRC as much as we do, Cuba isn't nearly on the same level as them, and in many respects, they're better than we are. Like, yeah, its overly authoritarian, but less so than any state whose existence is based on (and derived from) the Soviet Union's.

[Dreria]

Yeah, the embargo at this point is silly, and only exists to get the votes of a couple of old farts in Florida. The US does business with far worse regimes all the time, and Cuba’s barely a threat to boot.

Kudos to Cuba for that high vaccination rate, though truth be told that’s not surprising. The country is well-known for its focus on healthcare.

I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.

Sure we do business with the PRC which is far worse and more dangerous but the solution is not to do more business with the Cuban regime but to do much LESS business with the PRC. I wish we would put out MORE embargoes, a Cuban style embargo on the PRC is my dream (not going to happen but one can still dream). Now if you said “drop it on Cuba AND put one on the PRC because that would be a better situation” I could perhaps get behind that.

But not repeating what is suicidal stupidity in other cases just because we have stupidly done it in other cases.

Whether or not we keep, lift or modify the situation with Cuba should be judged on its own merits, not because of a two wrongs make a right type argument.

"loathsome regimes" = anybody that's for the people, apparently

[Novus America]

I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.

Sure we do business with the PRC which is far worse and more dangerous but the solution is not to do more business with the Cuban regime but to do much LESS business with the PRC. I wish we would put out MORE embargoes, a Cuban style embargo on the PRC is my dream (not going to happen but one can still dream). Now if you said “drop it on Cuba AND put one on the PRC because that would be a better situation” I could perhaps get behind that.

But not repeating what is suicidal stupidity in other cases just because we have stupidly done it in other cases.

Whether or not we keep, lift or modify the situation with Cuba should be judged on its own merits, not because of a two wrongs make a right type argument.

While I agree we should stop trading with the PRC as much as we do, Cuba isn't nearly on the same level as them, and in many respects, they're better than we are. Like, yeah, its overly authoritarian, but less so than any state whose existence is based on (and derived from) the Soviet Union's.

But that is my point. You have to explain why the embargo should be lifted on Cuba on its own merits, simply saying “we should lift it because we do business with worse regimes” is a very bad reason for doing it even if it is the right decision.

I agree the Cuban regime is not nearly as bad as the PRC regime, but that alone is not sufficient reason.
The question is the cost benefit analysis as it applies to Cuba, doing worse things with worse regimes as a justification for doing something is still not a good enough justification for doing it.

We need more overall embargoes, not less. It would not make sense to say we should have fewer because we do not have enough. Now you can still argue the Cuban one is one we do not need, but not for that particular reason.

Now on Cuba I do think we should carefully consider if it is still good. They are certainly not the worst (but certainly not one of the best either, there are much better places to trade with) but I am not generally in favor of giving somebody something for nothing in return in international relations. And making their regime wealthier is not going to make it better. That sort of neoliberal logic is completely discredited.

Their regime want us to drop the embargo, but what is their regime going to give us in return?
If they offer enough sure, but it is not good to give up leverage without getting something for it.

Unilateral concessions on trade was always a bad idea, and still is.

I do actually support allowing US companies to export pretty much any non security, non military product to Cuba, but still not allowing them to export to us because that would allow us to run up a massive trade surplus with them.
But if they want access to our markets, we should get something in return.

[Novus America]

I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.

Sure we do business with the PRC which is far worse and more dangerous but the solution is not to do more business with the Cuban regime but to do much LESS business with the PRC. I wish we would put out MORE embargoes, a Cuban style embargo on the PRC is my dream (not going to happen but one can still dream). Now if you said “drop it on Cuba AND put one on the PRC because that would be a better situation” I could perhaps get behind that.

But not repeating what is suicidal stupidity in other cases just because we have stupidly done it in other cases.

Whether or not we keep, lift or modify the situation with Cuba should be judged on its own merits, not because of a two wrongs make a right type argument.

"loathsome regimes" = anybody that's for the people, apparently

Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?

I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.

Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?

[The Alma Mater]

I can't support this because they probably stole America's vaccines

Considering the vaccines are nothing alike, that would be weird

[The Alma Mater]

"loathsome regimes" = anybody that's for the people, apparently

Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?

I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.

Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?

Who is asking for more US economic involvement ?
The USA currently bans *other nations* from trading with Cuba.

[Dreria]

"loathsome regimes" = anybody that's for the people, apparently

Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?

I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.

Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?

Cuba = good

[Novus America]

Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?

I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.

Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?

Who is asking for more US economic involvement ?
The USA currently bans *other nations* from trading with Cuba.

This is not true:
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7954883002

[The Alma Mater]

Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?

I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.

Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?

Cuba = good

Oh, hell no.
Cuba is not as bad as the USA for the world ? Possibly.

[Novus America]

Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?

I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.

Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?

Cuba = good

If you are not even going to bother with a good faith argument, I will not either.

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

Well done to Cuba. I cannot say much, as I’ve not at all monitored Cuba’s situation over the past couple of years, but I get a sense of ‘quiet competence’ on this matter specifically. Something that a great many supposedly rich and powerful states lack to the point it’s downright depressing. Again, kudos to them (Cuba).

They also had large protests by the heavily black population being brutalized by a very white regime but yes, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

All these Cuba praisers don't know the real Cuba. Cuban Americans and Cubans from all over the world send family remittances $ and care packages of food, goods, medicines and toilet paper, to their families and friends in Cuba. We buy the cell phones and re charge the cell phones costs $ of the cell phones Cubans are now allowed to own, either directly or through family remittances $. We pay the costs of the internet connections of Cubans in Cuba, either directly or through family remittances $. We pay $ the Hotel rooms of Cubans in Cuba in hotels when we visit family and friends in Cuba. Before they were not allowed inside any hotel resorts. We pay Cubans airplane and expenses $ when they visit us in Miami, the USA and other nations.

The US embargo does NOT deny medicines and medical supplies to the Cuban people. As stipulated in Section 1705 of the Cuban Democracy Act of 1992, the U.S. Government routinely issues licenses for the sale of medicine and medical supplies to Cuba. The only requirement for obtaining a license is to arrange for end-use monitoring to ensure that there is no reasonable likelihood that these items could be diverted to the Cuban military, used in acts of torture or other human rights abuses, or re-exported or used in the production of biotechnological products. Monitoring of sales can be performed by independent non-governmental organizations, international organizations, or foreign diplomats.

https://1997-2001.state.gov/briefings/s ... 70514.html

[Dreria]

Cuba = good

If you are not even going to bother with a good faith argument, I will not either.

ok

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

More trade, economic, political, cultural and tourist diplomatic relations with the Cuban government regime is good for the Communist, Socialist, Cuban government elite that live like rich $ capitalists as this link proves:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1642404

[Nilokeras]

Yeah, the embargo at this point is silly, and only exists to get the votes of a couple of old farts in Florida. The US does business with far worse regimes all the time, and Cuba’s barely a threat to boot.

Kudos to Cuba for that high vaccination rate, though truth be told that’s not surprising. The country is well-known for its focus on healthcare.

I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.

The logic here is pointing out that it's deeply hypocritical pretend to a system of sanctions based on violations of human rights and scaling with severity when we have the case of Cuba's sanctions being harsh not because of anything it's done, but solely at the behest of a group of reactionary exiles with outsized influence in American politics.

[Novus America]

I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.

The logic here is pointing out that it's deeply hypocritical pretend to a system of sanctions based on violations of human rights and scaling with severity when we have the case of Cuba's sanctions being harsh not because of anything it's done, but solely at the behest of a group of reactionary exiles with outsized influence in American politics.

But hypocritical does not make something wrong is the point.
If a murderer says murder is bad, they are not necessarily wrong.

Moreover the hypocrisy could also be corrected the other way, by increasing sanctions on other human rights abusers.

Besides complete consistency especially in democracy, but even in a dictatorship on foreign policy is not realistically achievable nor even desirable. Some level of hypocrisy in foreign policy is inevitable and necessary.

Just because it is hypocritical does not prove it is wrong or that it needs to be changed.

[Engadine Mcdonalds 1997]

CUBA STRONK NUMERO UNO! GLORY TO CASTRO! DEATH TO THE COUNTER-REVOLUTIONARIES! And similar sentiments

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.

The logic here is pointing out that it's deeply hypocritical pretend to a system of sanctions based on violations of human rights and scaling with severity when we have the case of Cuba's sanctions being harsh not because of anything it's done, but solely at the behest of a group of reactionary exiles with outsized influence in American politics.

Do you agree or disagree with all the real Cuba facts I have posted? There are Hospitals in Cuba were the patients have to bring their own blankets. Cubans bribe $ the doctors, with money $ or foods and goods.

Heath Care in Cuba: "Medical Apartheid" and Health Tourism
Of course, not everyone in Cuba receives substandard health care. In fact, senior Cuban Communist Party officials and those who can pay in hard currency can get first-rate medical services any time they want.
This situation exists because the Cuban Government has chosen to develop a two-tiered medical system--the deliberate establishment of a kind of "medical apartheid"--that funnels money into services for a privileged few, while depriving the health care system used by the vast majority of Cubans of adequate funding.
Following the loss of Soviet subsidies, Cuba developed special hospitals and set aside floors in others for exclusive use by foreigners who pay in hard currency. These facilities are well-equipped to provide their patients with quality modern care. Press reports indicate that during 1996 more than 7,000 "health tourists" paid Cuba $25 million for medical services.
Cuba's "Medical Technology Fair" held April 21-25 presented a graphic display of this two-tier medical system. The fair displayed an array of both foreign and Cuban-manufactured medicines and high-tech medical equipment and services items not available to most Cubans. The fair showcased Cuban elite hospitals promoted by "health tourism" enterprises such as SERVIMED and MEDICUBA.
On the other hand, members of the Cuban Communist Party elite, and the military high-command are allowed to use these hospitals free of charge. Certain diplomatic missions in Havana have been contacted and told that their local employees can be granted access privileges to these elite medical facilities--if they pay in dollars.
The founder of Havana's International Center for Neurological Restoration, Dr. Hilda Molina, in 1994 quit her position after refusing to increase the number of neural transplant operations without the required testing and follow-up. She expressed outrage that only foreigners are treated. Dr. Molina resigned from her seat in the national legislature, and returned the medals Fidel Castro had bestowed on her for her work.
In 1994, Cuba exported $110 million worth of medical supplies. In 1995, this figure rose to $125 million. These earnings have not been used to support the health care system for the Cuban public. In fact, tens of millions of dollars have been diverted to support and subsidize Cuba's biomedical research programs--money that could have been used for primary care facilities.
Another means of earning foreign exchange at the expense of providing health care to ordinary Cubans is the government's policy to export its doctors to other countries. South Africa alone has nearly 300 Cuban doctors. Cuba, in the early 1990s, reportedly planned to have 10,000 physicians abroad by the turn of the century.
A group of Cuban doctors recently arrived in the United States said they were "mystified" by claims in a recent report of the American Association for World Health (AAWH) that the United States embargo is to be blamed for the public health situation in the country.
According to these doctors, "we . . . can categorically and authoritatively state that our people's poor health care situation results from a dysfunctional and inhumane economic and political system, exacerbated by the regime to divert scarce resources to meet the needs of the regime's elite and foreign patients who bring hard currency."
Referring to the growing disparity between health care provided to ordinary Cubans and that offered to tourists and high ranking Communist party members, the exiled Cuban doctors noted that they "wish that any one of us could provide tours to foreign visitors of the hospitals Cira Garcia, Frank Pais, CIMEQ, and Hermanos Ameijeiras, in order to point out the medicines and equipment, even the bedsheets and blankets, reserved for regime elites or dollar-bearing foreigners, to the detriment of our people, who must bring their own bedsheets, to say nothing of the availability of medicines."
This statement by these newly arrived Cuban doctors is corroborated by the latest available trade figures for Cuba (1995). Cuba's imports totaled $2.8 billion dollars, yet only $46 million dollars--only 1.5% of overall foreign purchases--on medical imports for its 11 million people. By comparison, Cuba's neighbor, the Dominican Republic, spent $208 million dollars on medical imports for its 7.5 million citizens in 1995.

https://1997-2001.state.gov/briefings/s ... 70514.html

[Sundiata]

Cuba is succeeding in vaccination.