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Cuba vaxx. more than 90% of its population, despite embargo

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Hukhalia
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Postby Hukhalia » Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:59 am

Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:
Hukhalia wrote:Capitalism is by nature a consequence of scarcity. It thrives on scarcity; fundamentally, as a mode of production, it cannot exist without it.

scarcity, sounds more like life under communist socialism, :) :rofl: lol.

If you take the communist world at its apex and compared it with the capitalist world at its apex, you'd likely find less net relative scarcity. This is because, say, the Soviet system, did not rely, for the most part, upon the exploitation of foreign economies for its own benefit, if you discount the reparations from Eastern European nations at the end of WW2. Sure, there were less consumer goods, but such a standard was held at a constant across the communist world -- there were, au contraire, imperial metropoles with boundless consumerist abundance (provided you were white and at least middle class!) in the Western World. Such a fact is touted to display the supposed superiority of capitalist production. However, this obfuscation is what the division of the world into different nations with their own "territorial integrity" achieves. Beneath the flourishing "first world" nations (which are beginning to face existential threats to their way of life already!), there is a countless mass of toiling peoples in third world nations, raped and exploited to foot the bill for European social democracies and American consumerism alike. A lot of people like to play the mixed-blame game with the USSR and USA; that they were both Empires with their own spheres of influence they aimed to guard by any means necessary. However true this slowly became as the war dragged on, fundamentally, unlike the USA, you wouldn't see the same bare-faced economic exploitation by the USSR, and indeed the USSR accepted a lot of losses itself in order to send funds to its allies across the world.

So, yes. Capitalism is scarcity.
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Deblar
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Postby Deblar » Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:15 am

Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:
Hukhalia wrote:Capitalism is by nature a consequence of scarcity. It thrives on scarcity; fundamentally, as a mode of production, it cannot exist without it.

scarcity, sounds more like life under communist socialism, :) :rofl: lol.

haha, communism is when no food, lol /s

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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:11 pm

maybe communism isn't so bad. after all, cuba is a culturally homogeneous society with no immigration that outlaws homosexuality and opposes zionism
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:54 pm

Hukhalia wrote:If you take the communist world at its apex and compared it with the capitalist world at its apex, you'd likely find less net relative scarcity. This is because, say, the Soviet system, did not rely, for the most part, upon the exploitation of foreign economies for its own benefit, if you discount the reparations from Eastern European nations at the end of WW2.

1. This is an interesting and somewhat plausible claim that I would actually like to see empirical evidence for at some point. I do want to point out, however, that the USSR did not have an autarkic economy and did in fact engage in economic exchanges with foreign countries, most especially in Eastern Europe and Asia. They also maintained fluctuating levels of trade with the United States and Western Europe. It's possible these would have been counted as exploitation depending on the metric you're employing to define that word.

2. That's a really big exception.

Hukhalia wrote:Sure, there were less consumer goods, but such a standard was held at a constant across the communist world -- there were, au contraire, imperial metropoles with boundless consumerist abundance (provided you were white and at least middle class!) in the Western World. Such a fact is touted to display the supposed superiority of capitalist production. However, this obfuscation is what the division of the world into different nations with their own "territorial integrity" achieves.

Free trade has, broadly, tended to increase the availability of commodities and goods within even economically poorer societies. The more poignant criticism one can level is that these goods may not be accessible to all on an equal basis and that such exchanges can destroy local industries - which previously would have been important livelihoods for many. Scarciy in capitalist countries normally means the poor being priced out of buying goods. Scarcity in communist countries has normally meant queues and waiting lists if you lack political connections and can't bribe the right people. You also don't have as many options.

Hukhalia wrote:Beneath the flourishing "first world" nations (which are beginning to face existential threats to their way of life already!), there is a countless mass of toiling peoples in third world nations, raped and exploited to foot the bill for European social democracies and American consumerism alike. A lot of people like to play the mixed-blame game with the USSR and USA; that they were both Empires with their own spheres of influence they aimed to guard by any means necessary. However true this slowly became as the war dragged on, fundamentally, unlike the USA, you wouldn't see the same bare-faced economic exploitation by the USSR, and indeed the USSR accepted a lot of losses itself in order to send funds to its allies across the world.

The US sent a lot of monies to foreign regimes it backed as well. I think you're looking at the USSR with rose-tinted lenses a bit given they maintained their empire, at times, with tanks and rifles. But, again, I'd need to see a study or analysis to really weigh the claims made here.

Hukhalia wrote:So, yes. Capitalism is scarcity.

I wouldn't quite go that far. You had a good point about capitalism and scarcity, but this is milking it.
Last edited by Fahran on Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fahran
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Fahran » Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:04 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:maybe communism isn't so bad. after all, cuba is a culturally homogeneous society with no immigration that outlaws homosexuality and opposes zionism

Cuban culture is a rich amalgamation of Spanish, African, and Amerindian influences that has spawned unique music, dance, religious observances, cuisine, etc. Given it possessed a racial hierarchy not dissimilar to that which prevailed in the rest of Latin America, distinct racial and ethnic identities still persist, though indigenous Cubans are likely even more marginalized than their counterparts in Mexico, Brazil, or Costa Rica given the devastation brought upon the Taino by disease, massacres, and slavery. That said, culturally homogeneous is far from correct.

And homosexuality has been legal in Cuba for awhile despite lingering government and social persecution in the 1990s and 2000s.

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Greater Miami Shores 3
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Postby Greater Miami Shores 3 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:55 am

Deblar wrote:
Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:scarcity, sounds more like life under communist socialism, :) :rofl: lol.

haha, communism is when no food, lol /s

Scarcity has been a way of life in The Soviet Union and it's former Eastern European allied nations. Cuban Americans and Cubans all over the world send Family and Friends in Cuba, Family Remittances $ and care packages of food, goods, medicines and toilet paper. The Cuban government imports at least 85 % of the food of Cuba. There are food shortages of all kinds of foods and products all the time. There are long lines for food and goods all the time, when your turn comes up, they may have run out of this and that. There have been fights in line over the food and place in line, for hours and over day and night. At times Cuban families replace each other in line. But the governing communist socialist elite live like rich $ upper class capitalists as this link proves:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1642404
This is the Real Cuba.

During the time the economy of the USA was shut down, with shortages and long lines, Americans learned a little of how it is to live in Cuba.

:) :rofl: lol.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores 3 on Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:12 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Madrinpoor
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Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:09 am

Fahran wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:maybe communism isn't so bad. after all, cuba is a culturally homogeneous society with no immigration that outlaws homosexuality and opposes zionism

Cuban culture is a rich amalgamation of Spanish, African, and Amerindian influences that has spawned unique music, dance, religious observances, cuisine, etc. Given it possessed a racial hierarchy not dissimilar to that which prevailed in the rest of Latin America, distinct racial and ethnic identities still persist, though indigenous Cubans are likely even more marginalized than their counterparts in Mexico, Brazil, or Costa Rica given the devastation brought upon the Taino by disease, massacres, and slavery. That said, culturally homogeneous is far from correct.

And homosexuality has been legal in Cuba for awhile despite lingering government and social persecution in the 1990s and 2000s.

"Indigenous Cubans"

The Indigenous Cubans are all dead. Essentially. Some Cubans have a tiny bit of indigenous blood — and there may be some Cubans who are a plurality or even a majority indigenous — but there isn't any sort of indigenous community left. Take it from a Cuban.

Also, racism isn't very prevalent in Cuba. If you speak Spanish and live in Cuba you're Cuban. There's even a significant Chinese population in Cuba. Hell, Fulgencio Batista had Chinese blood.

Also, while homosexuality in Cuba isn't illegal, the majority of Cubans (especially older ones, idk about millennial Cubans) are quite homophobic.

Bear Sterns, what on earth gave you the idea Cubans were "ethnically homogenous" in any way? Of course they're not! No country in Latin America is ethnically homogenous, especially not one with a huge population of African descent. Cubans are as mixed as they come, except for Mexicans.
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Greater Miami Shores 3
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Postby Greater Miami Shores 3 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:19 am

Madrinpoor wrote:
Fahran wrote:Cuban culture is a rich amalgamation of Spanish, African, and Amerindian influences that has spawned unique music, dance, religious observances, cuisine, etc. Given it possessed a racial hierarchy not dissimilar to that which prevailed in the rest of Latin America, distinct racial and ethnic identities still persist, though indigenous Cubans are likely even more marginalized than their counterparts in Mexico, Brazil, or Costa Rica given the devastation brought upon the Taino by disease, massacres, and slavery. That said, culturally homogeneous is far from correct.

And homosexuality has been legal in Cuba for awhile despite lingering government and social persecution in the 1990s and 2000s.

"Indigenous Cubans"

The Indigenous Cubans are all dead. Essentially. Some Cubans have a tiny bit of indigenous blood — and there may be some Cubans who are a plurality or even a majority indigenous — but there isn't any sort of indigenous community left. Take it from a Cuban.

Also, racism isn't very prevalent in Cuba. If you speak Spanish and live in Cuba you're Cuban. There's even a significant Chinese population in Cuba. Hell, Fulgencio Batista had Chinese blood.

Also, while homosexuality in Cuba isn't illegal, the majority of Cubans (especially older ones, idk about millennial Cubans) are quite homophobic.

Bear Sterns, what on earth gave you the idea Cubans were "ethnically homogenous" in any way? Of course they're not! No country in Latin America is ethnically homogenous, especially not one with a huge population of African descent. Cubans are as mixed as they come, except for Mexicans.

Many ignore my posts and comments on the Real Cuba and a few challenge them. Eres Cubano? Eres anti Fidel, anti Raúl, anti Diaz-Canel? Are you Cuban? Anti Fidel, anti Raúl, anti Diaz-Canel? or Pro?

Fulgencio Batista was of White, Black and Chinese blood descent. Wikipedia claims he might have Taino ancestry as well.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores 3 on Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:47 am, edited 3 times in total.

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:02 am

Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:
Deblar wrote:haha, communism is when no food, lol /s

Scarcity has been a way of life in The Soviet Union and it's former Eastern European allied nations. Cuban Americans and Cubans all over the world send Family and Friends in Cuba, Family Remittances $ and care packages of food, goods, medicines and toilet paper. The Cuban government imports at least 85 % of the food of Cuba. There are food shortages of all kinds of foods and products all the time. There are long lines for food and goods all the time, when your turn comes up, they may have run out of this and that. There have been fights in line over the food. But the governing communist socialist elite live like rich $ upper class capitalists as this link proves:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1642404
This is the Real Cuba.

During the time the economy of the USA was shut down, with shortages and long lines, Americans learned a little of how it is to live in Cuba.

:) :rofl: lol.

What is this TMZ-level imagefest meant to prove?
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Greater Miami Shores 3
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Postby Greater Miami Shores 3 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:10 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:Scarcity has been a way of life in The Soviet Union and it's former Eastern European allied nations. Cuban Americans and Cubans all over the world send Family and Friends in Cuba, Family Remittances $ and care packages of food, goods, medicines and toilet paper. The Cuban government imports at least 85 % of the food of Cuba. There are food shortages of all kinds of foods and products all the time. There are long lines for food and goods all the time, when your turn comes up, they may have run out of this and that. There have been fights in line over the food. But the governing communist socialist elite live like rich $ upper class capitalists as this link proves:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1642404
This is the Real Cuba.

During the time the economy of the USA was shut down, with shortages and long lines, Americans learned a little of how it is to live in Cuba.

:) :rofl: lol.

What is this TMZ-level imagefest meant to prove?

These are Facts :)

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Madrinpoor
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Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:11 am

Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:"Indigenous Cubans"

The Indigenous Cubans are all dead. Essentially. Some Cubans have a tiny bit of indigenous blood — and there may be some Cubans who are a plurality or even a majority indigenous — but there isn't any sort of indigenous community left. Take it from a Cuban.

Also, racism isn't very prevalent in Cuba. If you speak Spanish and live in Cuba you're Cuban. There's even a significant Chinese population in Cuba. Hell, Fulgencio Batista had Chinese blood.

Also, while homosexuality in Cuba isn't illegal, the majority of Cubans (especially older ones, idk about millennial Cubans) are quite homophobic.

Bear Sterns, what on earth gave you the idea Cubans were "ethnically homogenous" in any way? Of course they're not! No country in Latin America is ethnically homogenous, especially not one with a huge population of African descent. Cubans are as mixed as they come, except for Mexicans.

Many ignore my posts and comments on the Real Cuba and a few challenge them. Eres Cubano? Eres anti Fidel, anti Raúl, anti Diaz-Canel? Are you Cuban? Anti Fidel, anti Raúl, anti Diaz-Canel? or Pro?

Fulgencio Batista was of White, Black and Chinese blood descent. Wikipedia claims he might have Taino ancestry as well.

Si, soy Cubano. No me gusta Fidel, Raúl, Diaz-Canel, o el embargo.

Many of my family still live in Havana and Santa Clara, and they are struggling to get medicine and food because of the embargo. They don't have freedom because of the communists. That's a discussion for another thread though — regarding this thread, I am glad that most of Cuba is vaccinated. Three good things came out of Castro — healthcare, education, and a beautiful environment not destroyed by pesticides. However, still, there is no food and no medicine because the US embargo is horrible, illegal, universally condemned, ineffective, and cruel to the innocent Cuban people.
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Greater Miami Shores 3
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Postby Greater Miami Shores 3 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:23 am

Madrinpoor wrote:
Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:Many ignore my posts and comments on the Real Cuba and a few challenge them. Eres Cubano? Eres anti Fidel, anti Raúl, anti Diaz-Canel? Are you Cuban? Anti Fidel, anti Raúl, anti Diaz-Canel? or Pro?

Fulgencio Batista was of White, Black and Chinese blood descent. Wikipedia claims he might have Taino ancestry as well.

Si, soy Cubano. No me gusta Fidel, Raúl, Diaz-Canel, o el embargo.

Many of my family still live in Havana and Santa Clara, and they are struggling to get medicine and food because of the embargo. They don't have freedom because of the communists. That's a discussion for another thread though — regarding this thread, I am glad that most of Cuba is vaccinated. Three good things came out of Castro — healthcare, education, and a beautiful environment not destroyed by pesticides. However, still, there is no food and no medicine because the US embargo is horrible, illegal, universally condemned, ineffective, and cruel to the innocent Cuban people.

Acere, I have pointed out the Cuban government dictatorship regime trades with all the nations of the world and receives loans and credits from many capitalist nations, despite the so called evil US economic embargo blockade. Has economic, political, cultural and tourist diplomatic relations with all the nations of the world. Receives millions of tourists from all over the world. Receives billions of dollars worth $ of Cuban family remittances $ and care packages of foods, goods and toilet paper, to their families and friends in Cuba. We buy $ the cell phones of Cubans in Cuba are now allowed to own. We pay $ the recharges of Cubans in Cuba, we pay $ the internet charges of Cubans in Cuba, directly and indirectly through our family remittances $. No hay nada bueno de los Castros. There is nothing good about the Castros.
The governing communist socialist elite live like rich upper class capitalists, like this link proves.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1642404

Viva Cuba Libre Y Democratica. Patria Y Vida. SOS Cuba.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores 3 on Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:31 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Balkannia
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Postby Balkannia » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:42 am

Isn't Cuba only sanctioned by USA? The EU, Russia and China have normal relations and trade no?

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Madrinpoor
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Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:48 am

Balkannia wrote:Isn't Cuba only sanctioned by USA? The EU, Russia and China have normal relations and trade no?

Not only that, EVERY SINGLE YEAR since 1992, the UNSC proposes a resolution to condemn the Cuban embargo. And it's always vetoed by the US. Every other country on earth thinks the embargo is bad. From the UK to Iran.
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Greater Miami Shores 3
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Postby Greater Miami Shores 3 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:50 am

Madrinpoor wrote:
Balkannia wrote:Isn't Cuba only sanctioned by USA? The EU, Russia and China have normal relations and trade no?

Not only that, EVERY SINGLE YEAR since 1992, the UNSC proposes a resolution to condemn the Cuban embargo. And it's always vetoed by the US. Every other country on earth thinks the embargo is bad. From the UK to Iran.

Balkannia is right. Asere, as I pointed out and you just confirmed it, they all ignore the so called evil US economic embargo blockade.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores 3 on Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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-Azteca Mexico
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Postby -Azteca Mexico » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:54 am

The Trade embargo is pointless. No one benefits from it and we could benefit from trade with Cuba.
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-Azteca Mexico
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Postby -Azteca Mexico » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:55 am

Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:Not only that, EVERY SINGLE YEAR since 1992, the UNSC proposes a resolution to condemn the Cuban embargo. And it's always vetoed by the US. Every other country on earth thinks the embargo is bad. From the UK to Iran.

Balkannia is right. Asere, as I pointed out and you just confirmed it, they all ignore the so called evil US economic embargo blockade.

I believe the only other country that supports the embargo is Israel.
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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:56 am

Balkannia wrote:Isn't Cuba only sanctioned by USA? The EU, Russia and China have normal relations and trade no?
Yes and no. There's workarounds, but mostly for a select few regions and there's often still lingering uncertainty, disincentivising trade.
It's not as bad as seems, but not really as good, either, you feel?
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Greater Miami Shores 3
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Postby Greater Miami Shores 3 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:00 pm

-Azteca Mexico wrote:
Greater Miami Shores 3 wrote:Balkannia is right. Asere, as I pointed out and you just confirmed it, they all ignore the so called evil US economic embargo blockade.

I believe the only other country that supports the embargo is Israel.

Yes, Israel votes with the USA on the embargo. But even Israel and the USA trade with the Cuban government to a certain extent. As I said, the Cuban government trades with all the nations of the world.
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Last edited by Greater Miami Shores 3 on Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Mon Mar 07, 2022 1:46 pm

-Azteca Mexico wrote:The Trade embargo is pointless. No one benefits from it and we could benefit from trade with Cuba.


Blocking Cuban imports to the US benefits us. Imports from hostile dictatorships are the quite simply the biggest threat to us right now. Even Germany now realizes Wandel durch Handel is stupid.
Neoliberal is discredited and disproven.

It is the last thing we need more of. I actually agree we should drop restrictions on non military/non security exports to Cuba though.

Make them reliant on us without us being reliant on them.
Last edited by Novus America on Mon Mar 07, 2022 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

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