NationStates

Posted: **Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:06 pm**

Hispida wrote:
The free romanians wrote:Wfym
businessmen will do anyhing for profit
Even destroy tradition and religion and its not to uncommon

He asked about LEFTWING CONSERVATISM
NOT MARXIST CONSERVATISM
Marxism=/leftism
I was lasy to bold btw so im not shouting

leftism is rooted in marxism tho
the only leftist ideology which isn't explicitly socialist is social democracy

“Leftism” isn’t a thing

Posted: **Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:10 pm**

Teshmir wrote:
Kubra wrote: As in it was more repressed because that was the nature of repression in the soviet union, not that it was especially hated compared to in the US of the time.
In the US something could be associated with the devil himself, but that doesn't necessarily mean being shipped off to prison, while in the soviet union well you could be sent to one for much less, such as translating poetry without a loicense.
It's unclear how well known the social attitudes of M&E would be known amongst the general populace or even party apparatchik's themselves, insofar as it's only been with the advent of the internet us folks have been able to pour over their marginal notes and personal correspondence. Back then you'd have to go to a library and find that shit, you know? A *university* library.

“They sent homosexuals to work camps because they sent everyone to work camps, we don’t know for sure if that’s indicative of state or societal disapproval of homosexuality per se”

Wat

as in, it's not indicative of greater social disapproval compared to the US of the time.

Posted: **Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:29 pm**

Kubra wrote:
Teshmir wrote:“They sent homosexuals to work camps because they sent everyone to work camps, we don’t know for sure if that’s indicative of state or societal disapproval of homosexuality per se”

Wat
as in, it's not indicative of greater social disapproval compared to the US of the time.

The disapproval was rooted in the Marxist Leninist worldview as interpreted by Stalin and the Party following him. And from their standpoint it makes perfect sense. They were deeply conservative in comparison to the modern western left and the progressivist pro LGBT MLs of today are fooling themselves in thinking that they’re heirs to the tendency.

Posted: **Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:33 pm**

Hispida wrote:
The free romanians wrote:Wfym
businessmen will do anyhing for profit
Even destroy tradition and religion and its not to uncommon

He asked about LEFTWING CONSERVATISM
NOT MARXIST CONSERVATISM
Marxism=/leftism
I was lasy to bold btw so im not shouting

leftism is rooted in marxism tho
the only leftist ideology which isn't explicitly socialist is social democracy

Wait until you hear of distribuism and utopian socialism(and many more)

Teshmir wrote:
Kubra wrote: as in, it's not indicative of greater social disapproval compared to the US of the time.

The disapproval was rooted in the Marxist Leninist worldview as interpreted by Stalin and the Party following him. And from their standpoint it makes perfect sense. They were deeply conservative in comparison to the modern western left and the progressivist pro LGBT MLs of today are fooling themselves in thinking that they’re heirs to the tendency.

I mean
Most of eastern europe is(and was) anti communist and this opinion doesn't change
(Sorry for bad english(

Posted: **Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:43 pm**

Teshmir wrote:
Kubra wrote: as in, it's not indicative of greater social disapproval compared to the US of the time.

The disapproval was rooted in the Marxist Leninist worldview as interpreted by Stalin and the Party following him. And from their standpoint it makes perfect sense. They were deeply conservative in comparison to the modern western left and the progressivist pro LGBT MLs of today are fooling themselves in thinking that they’re heirs to the tendency.

"in comparison to modern Western left" is not the comparison being made, and I explicitly stated that it would be so that the Soviet Union would seem more conservative. What is relevant is if it was nationally more so than a rough international average, or at least in comparison to its cold war rival.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:19 am**

This debate is completely semantics and definition of leftism has changed all of time. Do you know Lenin was internationalist?

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:21 am**

The Imperium man wrote:This debate is completely semantics and definition of leftism has changed all of time. Do you know Lenin was internationalist?

Reeee
Communism =/leftism
There is non marxist leftism
There is nationalist leftism
And there IS conservative leftism

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:46 pm**

The free romanians wrote:
Hispida wrote:leftism is rooted in marxism tho
the only leftist ideology which isn't explicitly socialist is social democracy

Wait until you hear of distribuism and utopian socialism(and many more)
Teshmir wrote:The disapproval was rooted in the Marxist Leninist worldview as interpreted by Stalin and the Party following him. And from their standpoint it makes perfect sense. They were deeply conservative in comparison to the modern western left and the progressivist pro LGBT MLs of today are fooling themselves in thinking that they’re heirs to the tendency.

I mean
Most of eastern europe is(and was) anti communist and this opinion doesn't change
(Sorry for bad english(

It’s all good the english is fine haha

But yeah I’m not disputing that I’m just saying the communists were against it too and they had ideological reasons for being so. Maybe they weren’t conservative in that they weren’t focused on conserving traditions and society. But they definitely were not like progressive leftists of modern day. And still aren’t in many cases.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:01 pm**

The free romanians wrote:And there IS conservative leftism

I must've missed it, but elaborate what is it according to your view?

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:29 pm**

Diarcesia wrote:
The free romanians wrote:And there IS conservative leftism

I must've missed it, but elaborate what is it according to your view?

In the cdu there is an economicaly more left wing branch that is also surely/solidly(sorry for bad english again) conservative
Like Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer
Social democratic parties in many places are conservative
Should i go on?
I don't see how leftism(non marxist)is opposite from traditon

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:22 pm**

The free romanians wrote:
The Imperium man wrote:This debate is completely semantics and definition of leftism has changed all of time. Do you know Lenin was internationalist?

Reeee
Communism =/leftism
There is non marxist leftism
There is nationalist leftism
And there IS conservative leftism

Nationalist leftism do exist?

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:51 pm**

The Imperium man wrote:
The free romanians wrote:Reeee
Communism =/leftism
There is non marxist leftism
There is nationalist leftism
And there IS conservative leftism

Nationalist leftism do exist?

The original leftism - the left wing of the French Revolution - was pretty ducking nationalist.

Broadly speaking "leftism" is any political action that calls for reform, and a change to the status quo. Whereas "right wing" politics seek to preserve the status quo, or even return to a previous status quo. Or in extreme cases, return to a previous idealized (or even made-up) status quo.

Of course there are other meanings that people have grafted on to this concept. The communist vs. capitalist business became so entrenched during the cold war, that to many people that is the only meaning they recognize.

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:28 am**

The Imperium man wrote:
The free romanians wrote:Reeee
Communism =/leftism
There is non marxist leftism
There is nationalist leftism
And there IS conservative leftism

Nationalist leftism do exist?

Yes
Who knew global corporations are antinationalism and antiworker

NationStates

Where is left-wing conservativism?