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Where is left-wing conservativism?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Dreria
Diplomat
 
Posts: 646
Founded: Sep 16, 2021
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Dreria » Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:06 pm

Hispida wrote:
The free romanians wrote:Wfym
businessmen will do anyhing for profit
Even destroy tradition and religion and its not to uncommon

He asked about LEFTWING CONSERVATISM
NOT MARXIST CONSERVATISM
Marxism=/leftism
I was lasy to bold btw so im not shouting

leftism is rooted in marxism tho
the only leftist ideology which isn't explicitly socialist is social democracy

“Leftism” isn’t a thing
catboy traditionalism

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Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15532
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kubra » Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:10 pm

Teshmir wrote:
Kubra wrote: As in it was more repressed because that was the nature of repression in the soviet union, not that it was especially hated compared to in the US of the time.
In the US something could be associated with the devil himself, but that doesn't necessarily mean being shipped off to prison, while in the soviet union well you could be sent to one for much less, such as translating poetry without a loicense.
It's unclear how well known the social attitudes of M&E would be known amongst the general populace or even party apparatchik's themselves, insofar as it's only been with the advent of the internet us folks have been able to pour over their marginal notes and personal correspondence. Back then you'd have to go to a library and find that shit, you know? A *university* library.

“They sent homosexuals to work camps because they sent everyone to work camps, we don’t know for sure if that’s indicative of state or societal disapproval of homosexuality per se”

Wat
as in, it's not indicative of greater social disapproval compared to the US of the time.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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Teshmir
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Dec 01, 2021
Corporate Police State

Postby Teshmir » Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:29 pm

Kubra wrote:
Teshmir wrote:“They sent homosexuals to work camps because they sent everyone to work camps, we don’t know for sure if that’s indicative of state or societal disapproval of homosexuality per se”

Wat
as in, it's not indicative of greater social disapproval compared to the US of the time.

The disapproval was rooted in the Marxist Leninist worldview as interpreted by Stalin and the Party following him. And from their standpoint it makes perfect sense. They were deeply conservative in comparison to the modern western left and the progressivist pro LGBT MLs of today are fooling themselves in thinking that they’re heirs to the tendency.
A struggling quietist in the ruins of corporate techno-feudalism

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The free romanians
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 432
Founded: Oct 15, 2021
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The free romanians » Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:33 pm

Hispida wrote:
The free romanians wrote:Wfym
businessmen will do anyhing for profit
Even destroy tradition and religion and its not to uncommon

He asked about LEFTWING CONSERVATISM
NOT MARXIST CONSERVATISM
Marxism=/leftism
I was lasy to bold btw so im not shouting

leftism is rooted in marxism tho
the only leftist ideology which isn't explicitly socialist is social democracy

Wait until you hear of distribuism and utopian socialism(and many more)
Teshmir wrote:
Kubra wrote: as in, it's not indicative of greater social disapproval compared to the US of the time.

The disapproval was rooted in the Marxist Leninist worldview as interpreted by Stalin and the Party following him. And from their standpoint it makes perfect sense. They were deeply conservative in comparison to the modern western left and the progressivist pro LGBT MLs of today are fooling themselves in thinking that they’re heirs to the tendency.

I mean
Most of eastern europe is(and was) anti communist and this opinion doesn't change
(Sorry for bad english(
Last edited by The free romanians on Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Morbin time

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Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15532
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kubra » Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:43 pm

Teshmir wrote:
Kubra wrote: as in, it's not indicative of greater social disapproval compared to the US of the time.

The disapproval was rooted in the Marxist Leninist worldview as interpreted by Stalin and the Party following him. And from their standpoint it makes perfect sense. They were deeply conservative in comparison to the modern western left and the progressivist pro LGBT MLs of today are fooling themselves in thinking that they’re heirs to the tendency.
"in comparison to modern Western left" is not the comparison being made, and I explicitly stated that it would be so that the Soviet Union would seem more conservative. What is relevant is if it was nationally more so than a rough international average, or at least in comparison to its cold war rival.
Last edited by Kubra on Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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The Imperium man
Secretary
 
Posts: 36
Founded: Apr 18, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Imperium man » Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:19 am

This debate is completely semantics and definition of leftism has changed all of time. Do you know Lenin was internationalist?

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The free romanians
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 432
Founded: Oct 15, 2021
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The free romanians » Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:21 am

The Imperium man wrote:This debate is completely semantics and definition of leftism has changed all of time. Do you know Lenin was internationalist?

Reeee
Communism =/leftism
There is non marxist leftism
There is nationalist leftism
And there IS conservative leftism
Morbin time

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Teshmir
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Dec 01, 2021
Corporate Police State

Postby Teshmir » Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:46 pm

The free romanians wrote:
Hispida wrote:leftism is rooted in marxism tho
the only leftist ideology which isn't explicitly socialist is social democracy

Wait until you hear of distribuism and utopian socialism(and many more)
Teshmir wrote:The disapproval was rooted in the Marxist Leninist worldview as interpreted by Stalin and the Party following him. And from their standpoint it makes perfect sense. They were deeply conservative in comparison to the modern western left and the progressivist pro LGBT MLs of today are fooling themselves in thinking that they’re heirs to the tendency.

I mean
Most of eastern europe is(and was) anti communist and this opinion doesn't change
(Sorry for bad english(

It’s all good the english is fine haha

But yeah I’m not disputing that I’m just saying the communists were against it too and they had ideological reasons for being so. Maybe they weren’t conservative in that they weren’t focused on conserving traditions and society. But they definitely were not like progressive leftists of modern day. And still aren’t in many cases.
A struggling quietist in the ruins of corporate techno-feudalism

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Diarcesia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5455
Founded: Aug 21, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Diarcesia » Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:01 pm

The free romanians wrote:And there IS conservative leftism

I must've missed it, but elaborate what is it according to your view?

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The free romanians
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 432
Founded: Oct 15, 2021
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The free romanians » Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:29 pm

Diarcesia wrote:
The free romanians wrote:And there IS conservative leftism

I must've missed it, but elaborate what is it according to your view?

In the cdu there is an economicaly more left wing branch that is also surely/solidly(sorry for bad english again) conservative
Like Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer
Social democratic parties in many places are conservative
Should i go on?
I don't see how leftism(non marxist)is opposite from traditon
Last edited by The free romanians on Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Morbin time

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The Imperium man
Secretary
 
Posts: 36
Founded: Apr 18, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Imperium man » Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:22 pm

The free romanians wrote:
The Imperium man wrote:This debate is completely semantics and definition of leftism has changed all of time. Do you know Lenin was internationalist?

Reeee
Communism =/leftism
There is non marxist leftism
There is nationalist leftism
And there IS conservative leftism


Nationalist leftism do exist?

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Neanderthaland
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8586
Founded: Sep 10, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Neanderthaland » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:51 pm

The Imperium man wrote:
The free romanians wrote:Reeee
Communism =/leftism
There is non marxist leftism
There is nationalist leftism
And there IS conservative leftism


Nationalist leftism do exist?

The original leftism - the left wing of the French Revolution - was pretty ducking nationalist.

Broadly speaking "leftism" is any political action that calls for reform, and a change to the status quo. Whereas "right wing" politics seek to preserve the status quo, or even return to a previous status quo. Or in extreme cases, return to a previous idealized (or even made-up) status quo.

Of course there are other meanings that people have grafted on to this concept. The communist vs. capitalist business became so entrenched during the cold war, that to many people that is the only meaning they recognize.
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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The free romanians
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 432
Founded: Oct 15, 2021
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The free romanians » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:28 am

The Imperium man wrote:
The free romanians wrote:Reeee
Communism =/leftism
There is non marxist leftism
There is nationalist leftism
And there IS conservative leftism


Nationalist leftism do exist?

Yes
Who knew global corporations are antinationalism and antiworker
Morbin time

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