Where is left-wing conservativism?

[The free romanians]

The point is that leftism expresses the interests of the oppressed class, while conservatism is an instrument of the ruling class.

Leftism orientates to fight (including by a revolutionary forceful way), for earthly happiness, for a well-fed and cheerful society, where human labor is replaced by automation.

And what qualities does conservatism cultivate? Fertility, humility, hard work, obedience, unpretentiousness. It is very beneficial for the ruling class that the oppressed class has these properties. Humility and hard work facilitate exploitation, unpretentiousness allows the owner to minimize the cost of an employee, fertility and large families allow to devalue the cost of labor and create a "reserve industrial army" of the hungry and unemployed. In a class society, conservatism is an instrument of masters against slaves.

In a classless society (in a primitive community), conservatism exists in the form of a system of taboos and tribal customs in conditions of extreme backwardness of technology and a shortage of resources. Conservatism in primitive tribes promotes survival in difficult conditions, ensures the continuity of survival skills - but it blocks the possibility of non-standard thinking and development. And therefore, primitive tribes (for example, the Bushmen) survive under conservative customs, but do not develop. Science and technology are frozen at a primitive level, which means there is no comfort and no wide opportunities.

Therefore, for a truly happy society, you need development, modernity, thinking outside the box, hedonistic goals. Otherwise, the result will be a reactionary fake of socialism, with technical backwardness and a lot of suffering. Such forgeries ("feudal socialism", "Christian socialism") were criticized by Marx in the Communist Manifesto: "Nothing is easier than to give Christian asceticism a Socialist tinge... Christian Socialism is but the holy water with which the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat. " In Russia, the CPRF is fond of this, combining conservatism with statism and great-power. It only benefits the ruling elite, including billionaires. Conservatism excludes the revolutionary struggle for earthly happiness, comfort and abundance to ordinary people.

Holy fuck this is cringe lmfao.

Tankie coping and seething(off topic what does seethe mean)

[Ifreann]

Holy fuck this is cringe lmfao.

Tankie coping and seething(off topic what does seethe mean)

To seethe is to be highly emotionally agitated. In ye olden days it was used to mean boiling, literally. It suggests intense but mostly internal and unexpressed anger.

[The free romanians]

Tankie coping and seething(off topic what does seethe mean)

To seethe is to be highly emotionally agitated. In ye olden days it was used to mean boiling, literally. It suggests intense but mostly internal and unexpressed anger.

Then i shall seethe a potato

[Nationalist Northumbria]

economics is cringe, and the most common excuse for not conserving anything.

OK.

[Rifts Earth]

Eh, I don't like it whenever someone burns something and inhales the smoke.

That being said, if we replaced tobacco with weed, that would probably be a good idea. Probably. Don't know enough on the health ramifications of cannabis vis a vis tobacco to say for sure.

Here ya go.. And here is another

Well, that settles it. I think we're on the same page here, then. Maybe some minor differences on the drawbacks of smoke inhalation generally, but we definitely agree that cannabis shouldn't be illegal.

Now, I'd argue that tobacco should only be available for religious reasons - I don't want to discriminate against traditional Native American religions, but at the same time, I just don't like the stuff, and want to minimize its availability. Too many members of my family smoke, and it's already killed one of them.

[Thermodolia]

When people call themselves "socially conservative" without specifying further, what do we all tend to take that to mean? Personally I think that someone who says that is essentially admitting to being some kind of bigot, to believing that there is some group in society which is striving for equality which they want to see pushed back into inequality and oppression. And I'm no great scholar of political philosophy, but that seems to me to be incompatible with left wing politics.

Okay... socially conservative would probably mean



As I have repeatedly stated, pretty much none of these have anything to do with the belief that economic structures cause social problems.

This is viewing social conservatism from a western/American view point. Eastern/Russian conservatives aren’t for the same things in that chart as the western/Americans are.

[Ifreann]

Okay... socially conservative would probably mean



As I have repeatedly stated, pretty much none of these have anything to do with the belief that economic structures cause social problems.

This is viewing social conservatism from a western/American view point. Eastern/Russian conservatives aren’t for the same things in that chart as the western/Americans are.

I did ask what we tend to take it to mean when someone calls themselves "socially conservative" without specifying further, as opposed to asking for some kind of universally applicable definition of conservatism. Forsher answered the question I asked. Apparently by opening Excel.

[The free romanians]

What is with that stupid photo
That doesn't explain conservatism at all

[Thermodolia]

This is viewing social conservatism from a western/American view point. Eastern/Russian conservatives aren’t for the same things in that chart as the western/Americans are.

I did ask what we tend to take it to mean when someone calls themselves "socially conservative" without specifying further, as opposed to asking for some kind of universally applicable definition of conservatism. Forsher answered the question I asked. Apparently by opening Excel.

But that only answers the question with a heavy western bias. If you asked an Eastern European conservatives about no gun control they’d think your nuts to support that.

Basically there’s no really no way to accurately pin down what “social conservative” is outside of general ideas

[Ifreann]

I did ask what we tend to take it to mean when someone calls themselves "socially conservative" without specifying further, as opposed to asking for some kind of universally applicable definition of conservatism. Forsher answered the question I asked. Apparently by opening Excel.

But that only answers the question with a heavy western bias. If you asked an Eastern European conservatives about no gun control they’d think your nuts to support that.

Basically there’s no really no way to accurately pin down what “social conservative” is outside of general ideas

Okay? I wasn't trying to make anything but a general point. I don't know why you're so caught up on eastern Europe.

[The free romanians]

But that only answers the question with a heavy western bias. If you asked an Eastern European conservatives about no gun control they’d think your nuts to support that.

Basically there’s no really no way to accurately pin down what “social conservative” is outside of general ideas

Okay? I wasn't trying to make anything but a general point. I don't know why you're so caught up on eastern Europe.

About gun control
Its lit insane of a view for anything other that no guns in any place but the us

[Kubra]

But that only answers the question with a heavy western bias. If you asked an Eastern European conservatives about no gun control they’d think your nuts to support that.

Basically there’s no really no way to accurately pin down what “social conservative” is outside of general ideas

Okay? I wasn't trying to make anything but a general point. I don't know why you're so caught up on eastern Europe.

I think what he's getting at it is that gun rights are mostly an american thing, while conservatives elsewhere tend not to be so pro-gun for much more traditonally conservative reasons.

[Thyrgga]

It exists outside of the United States. Conservatism is only coupled with economic liberalism in the US because of the Cold War. In short, USSR = godless commies, therefore capitalism is Christian.

[Thermodolia]

Okay? I wasn't trying to make anything but a general point. I don't know why you're so caught up on eastern Europe.

I think what he's getting at it is that gun rights are mostly an american thing, while conservatives elsewhere tend not to be so pro-gun for much more traditonally conservative reasons.

Exactly. Conservatism isn’t the same worldwide. It’s silly to assume that because American conservatives are pro business, and pro gun that all conservatives are

[Kubra]

I think what he's getting at it is that gun rights are mostly an american thing, while conservatives elsewhere tend not to be so pro-gun for much more traditonally conservative reasons.

Exactly. Conservatism isn’t the same worldwide. It’s silly to assume that because American conservatives are pro business, and pro gun that all conservatives are

Though that's largely because american conservatives are more "liberal" than they'd ever admit, owing to the peculiar origins and institutions of the system in which they are conservatives.

[Forsher]

This is viewing social conservatism from a western/American view point. Eastern/Russian conservatives aren’t for the same things in that chart as the western/Americans are.

I did ask what we tend to take it to mean when someone calls themselves "socially conservative" without specifying further, as opposed to asking for some kind of universally applicable definition of conservatism. Forsher answered the question I asked. Apparently by opening Excel.

Excel is always open.

But really it was because a vertical list would take up too much space.

What is with that stupid photo
That doesn't explain conservatism at all

It's not meant to. It's just meant to list social conservative ideas.

About gun control
Its lit insane of a view for anything other that no guns in any place but the us

Hahaha, no.

The right will do anything to win votes. And if that means trying to create a gun vote a la the US, that's what they'll do.

[Existential Cats]

Conservatism fundamentally believes in preserving the status quo and ensuring if change does happen, it's gradual. Conservatives don't vibe well with leftism by nature of it proposing radical changes to economic and social orders, for whom even the reforms of gradualist social democrats are too extreme.

The feeling for lefties is mutual. I've seen more of the traditional Marxists like Caleb Maupin get slammed for suggesting allowing conservatives into the leftist movement. For many mainstream lefties, leftism necessarily entails solidarity with all marginalized groups. Conservatism's old values and aversion to change hampers the liberation of these groups, so lefties reject it.

Though I think the two have some potential to be compatible. Marxists have long known capitalism is one of the most revolutionary forces in the world, tearing old divides and walls. Capitalists don't care about traditional values, they care about pursuing profit. They'll happily appropriate leftist ideas if it benefits them monetarily, which is what we've been seeing in the US. The thing is, many mainstream conservatives confuse this trend with socialism. And secondly, even if they recognized pink capitalism for what it was, they likely would reject a socialist alternative.

In a successful leftist community, left-wing conservatism will naturally spring up, because at that point, wanting to maintain the status quo means wanting to keep the community on the left side of the spectrum. But in the neoliberal US and EU, both sides of the aisle see it as the black sheep.

[The Imperium man]

This forum seems arguing between the definition of conservatism. Conservatism is based on political philosophy which is typically emphasizes cultural and traditional values or traditional social institutions. Unfortunately , most modern conservatives are classically liberal or libertarians who are advocate for minimal government inference and personal liberty. Not all conservatives are American libertarians , but they as conservatives support authoritarianism.

But people on left has no reason to support conservatism , btw.

[The free romanians]

This forum seems arguing between the definition of conservatism. Conservatism is based on political philosophy which is typically emphasizes cultural and traditional values or traditional social institutions. Unfortunately , most modern conservatives are classically liberal or libertarians who are advocate for minimal government inference and personal liberty. Not all conservatives are American libertarians , but they as conservatives support authoritarianism.

But people on left has no reason to support conservatism , btw.

Why
Economicaly im on the left(not by much) and i'd call myself traditional and conservative
https://9axes.github.io/results.html?a= ... &h=27&i=40

[Rifts Earth]

This forum seems arguing between the definition of conservatism. Conservatism is based on political philosophy which is typically emphasizes cultural and traditional values or traditional social institutions. Unfortunately , most modern conservatives are classically liberal or libertarians who are advocate for minimal government inference and personal liberty. Not all conservatives are American libertarians , but they as conservatives support authoritarianism.

But people on left has no reason to support conservatism , btw.

Why
Economicaly im on the left(not by much) and i'd call myself traditional and conservative
https://9axes.github.io/results.html?a= ... &h=27&i=40

^^
This. I don't care what you do with the economy. As long as you're pro-life, pro-family, and pro-religion, I don't care about the rest.

[Bear Stearns]

The point is that leftism expresses the interests of the oppressed class

biggest lie of the 20th century

[HISPIDA]

This forum seems arguing between the definition of conservatism. Conservatism is based on political philosophy which is typically emphasizes cultural and traditional values or traditional social institutions. Unfortunately , most modern conservatives are classically liberal or libertarians who are advocate for minimal government inference and personal liberty. Not all conservatives are American libertarians , but they as conservatives support authoritarianism.

But people on left has no reason to support conservatism , btw.

i'd say conservatism is the acceptance and protection of the status quo; therefore, leftists aren't able to be conservatives, since leftism is revolutionary

[M E N]

This forum seems arguing between the definition of conservatism. Conservatism is based on political philosophy which is typically emphasizes cultural and traditional values or traditional social institutions. Unfortunately , most modern conservatives are classically liberal or libertarians who are advocate for minimal government inference and personal liberty. Not all conservatives are American libertarians , but they as conservatives support authoritarianism.

But people on left has no reason to support conservatism , btw.

i'd say conservatism is the acceptance and protection of the status quo; therefore, leftists aren't able to be conservatives, since leftism is revolutionary

A lot of (neo-)conservatives are, by Burke´s standard*, radicals. To oppose such radicalism, a shift to the left could well be the classically conservative thing to do.

*Edmund Burke is the guy who coined the word conservatism

[The Alma Mater]

This forum seems arguing between the definition of conservatism. Conservatism is based on political philosophy which is typically emphasizes cultural and traditional values or traditional social institutions. Unfortunately , most modern conservatives are classically liberal or libertarians who are advocate for minimal government inference and personal liberty. Not all conservatives are American libertarians , but they as conservatives support authoritarianism.

But people on left has no reason to support conservatism , btw.

i'd say conservatism is the acceptance and protection of the status quo; therefore, leftists aren't able to be conservatives, since leftism is revolutionary

How is leftism by definition revolutionary ? If a nation is pure communist, would someone who wants to preserve that not be conservative ?

[The Imperium man]

i'd say conservatism is the acceptance and protection of the status quo; therefore, leftists aren't able to be conservatives, since leftism is revolutionary

How is leftism by definition revolutionary ? If a nation is pure communist, would someone who wants to preserve that not be conservative ?

What do you mean by that? Leftism is supposed to be revolutionary , but not authoritarian conservatism? Am right about that?