Where is left-wing conservativism?

[Diarcesia]

By definition, conservatism is the ideology of keeping the status quo. In this regard, if a left-wing government's policies is geared towards maintaining existing policies, it becomes conservative. An example would be the Soviets crushing counterrevolutionary activity.

American leftists also shill for the status quo because they think anything that's anti-establishment is fascist.

Given American politics is already, to over-simplify things, quite right-wing. American "leftists" are also conservative lol.

[Bear Stearns]

American leftists also shill for the status quo because they think anything that's anti-establishment is fascist.

Given American politics is already, to over-simplify things, quite right-wing. American "leftists" are also conservative lol.

This statement means nothing and has added zero value to this conversation.

[Krasny-Volny]

“Tankies”, in Western communist parlance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

There is a vocal minority of Western communists that does approve of the old guard Soviet-style regimes. The fact that these regimes are often credited with standing up to US imperialism and are in impoverished, non-white countries gives them additional moral high ground to these folks.

This is a definite split in the modern socialist movements in Western countries hardly anybody outside those movements talks about.

I am aware what a “tankie” is. I am stating that I see libertarian communists/socialists defending Cuba as some sort socially liberal/progressive paradise. They dismiss the human rights abuses as “capitalist propaganda”

Would like to see some of these folks come forward and post on this thread. I’ve only met one person who was an ardent defender of Cuba’s human rights record on this forum, and I’d consider him a tankie in the sense that this was the type of authoritarian socialism he actively approved of.

[American Legionaries]

I didn't say that Democrats aren't also fascists, they are just less fascist than Republicans. In fact I would say that Democrats are conservatives.

How does someone go about being "less fascist"?

[Dreria]

I am aware what a “tankie” is. I am stating that I see libertarian communists/socialists defending Cuba as some sort socially liberal/progressive paradise. They dismiss the human rights abuses as “capitalist propaganda”

Would like to see some of these folks come forward and post on this thread. I’ve only met one person who was an ardent defender of Cuba’s human rights record on this forum, and I’d consider him a tankie in the sense that this was the type of authoritarian socialism he actively approved of.

the LAPD killed more people this week than Cuba has in a decade. and the worst human rights abuses in Cuba are in a US military base.

[Draconisisia]

The USA has the worst human rights record of any country in the world. We have the highest percentage of our population in prison, we invade other countries, overthrow their governments, bomb and torture their people. We're the only country to ever use nuclear weapons.

[Krasny-Volny]

American leftists also shill for the status quo because they think anything that's anti-establishment is fascist.

Given American politics is already, to over-simplify things, quite right-wing. American "leftists" are also conservative lol.

Compared to who?

We can go even further if you want; many people assert that Russian “leftists” are even more culturally conservative than American ones.

What yardstick are you using to perpetuate this No True Scotsman fallacy?

[Crylante]

Tankies are fascists that like the colour red while they're on the agenda.

[Nationalist Northumbria]

I am aware what a “tankie” is. I am stating that I see libertarian communists/socialists defending Cuba as some sort socially liberal/progressive paradise. They dismiss the human rights abuses as “capitalist propaganda”

Would like to see some of these folks come forward and post on this thread. I’ve only met one person who was an ardent defender of Cuba’s human rights record on this forum, and I’d consider him a tankie in the sense that this was the type of authoritarian socialism he actively approved of.

Years ago, when I was younger, my uncle hired a Cuban exile. My grandparents later told me that he had fled Cuba to escape communist dictatorship, where people could not buy what they wanted to but instead had to go to a warehouse and have what the state thought they needed (and no more - just necessities) given to them. Something like that, I was like 8, 9, 10 when I heard it.

He later tried to steal from my uncle's business.

[Dreria]

I see leftists on NSG and elsewhere defend Cuba as some sort of cultural liberal paradise very often. They make it seem it’s like San Francisco in the Caribbean.

“Tankies”, in Western communist parlance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

There is a vocal minority of Western communists that does approve of the old guard Soviet-style regimes. The fact that these regimes are often credited with standing up to US imperialism and are in impoverished, non-white countries gives them additional moral high ground to these folks.

This is a definite split in the modern socialist movements in Western countries hardly anybody outside those movements talks about.

if you're a socialist and you hate every socialist country then you're not a socialist.

[Bear Stearns]

Would like to see some of these folks come forward and post on this thread. I’ve only met one person who was an ardent defender of Cuba’s human rights record on this forum, and I’d consider him a tankie in the sense that this was the type of authoritarian socialism he actively approved of.

Years ago, when I was younger, my uncle hired a Cuban exile. My grandparents later told me that he had fled Cuba to escape communist dictatorship, where people could not buy what they wanted to but instead had to go to a warehouse and have what the state thought they needed (and no more - just necessities) given to them. Something like that, I was like 8, 9, 10 when I heard it.

He later tried to steal from my uncle's business.

The exiles brought typical tropical attitudes of honest government and property rights to South Florida.

[Diarcesia]

Given American politics is already, to over-simplify things, quite right-wing. American "leftists" are also conservative lol.

Compared to who?

We can go even further if you want; many people assert that Russian “leftists” are even more culturally conservative than American ones.

What yardstick are you using to perpetuate this No True Scotsman fallacy?

Compared to full-on tankies, communists, and Marxists (inb4 "Democrats are Marxists", they are not).

To what extent am I invoking No True Scotsman?

[Dreria]

Would like to see some of these folks come forward and post on this thread. I’ve only met one person who was an ardent defender of Cuba’s human rights record on this forum, and I’d consider him a tankie in the sense that this was the type of authoritarian socialism he actively approved of.

Years ago, when I was younger, my uncle hired a Cuban exile. My grandparents later told me that he had fled Cuba to escape communist dictatorship, where people could not buy what they wanted to but instead had to go to a warehouse and have what the state thought they needed (and no more - just necessities) given to them. Something like that, I was like 8, 9, 10 when I heard it.

He later tried to steal from my uncle's business.

"If socialism is so good why do cubans want to come to the USA??? checkmate"

yeah because no one from guatemala and honduras and el salvadore ever tries to enter the country. they must have the same amount of dollars as the US, since they are capitalist.

[Krasny-Volny]

Would like to see some of these folks come forward and post on this thread. I’ve only met one person who was an ardent defender of Cuba’s human rights record on this forum, and I’d consider him a tankie in the sense that this was the type of authoritarian socialism he actively approved of.

the LAPD killed more people this week than Cuba has in a decade. and the worst human rights abuses in Cuba are in a US military base.

Do you think all allegations of human rights abuses in Cuba are Western propaganda?

[Nationalist Northumbria]

Years ago, when I was younger, my uncle hired a Cuban exile. My grandparents later told me that he had fled Cuba to escape communist dictatorship, where people could not buy what they wanted to but instead had to go to a warehouse and have what the state thought they needed (and no more - just necessities) given to them. Something like that, I was like 8, 9, 10 when I heard it.

He later tried to steal from my uncle's business.

"If socialism is so good why do cubans want to come to the USA??? checkmate"

yeah because no one from guatemala and honduras and el salvadore ever tries to enter the country. they must have the same amount of dollars as the US, since they are capitalist.

Well, this was in North East England.

[Dreria]

the LAPD killed more people this week than Cuba has in a decade. and the worst human rights abuses in Cuba are in a US military base.

Do you think all allegations of human rights abuses in Cuba are Western propaganda?

no country has ever done zero bad things to anyone, so no.

[Bear Stearns]

Years ago, when I was younger, my uncle hired a Cuban exile. My grandparents later told me that he had fled Cuba to escape communist dictatorship, where people could not buy what they wanted to but instead had to go to a warehouse and have what the state thought they needed (and no more - just necessities) given to them. Something like that, I was like 8, 9, 10 when I heard it.

He later tried to steal from my uncle's business.

"If socialism is so good why do cubans want to come to the USA??? checkmate"

yeah because no one from guatemala and honduras and el salvadore ever tries to enter the country. they must have the same amount of dollars as the US, since they are capitalist.

The failures of Latin America have little to do with their economic systems. Argentina has proven it can be a dump whether it be capitalist or socialist, and Mexico has shown that it equally sucks under neoliberalism and socialism.

[Krasny-Volny]

Compared to who?

We can go even further if you want; many people assert that Russian “leftists” are even more culturally conservative than American ones.

What yardstick are you using to perpetuate this No True Scotsman fallacy?

Compared to full-on tankies, communists, and Marxists (inb4 "Democrats are Marxists", they are not).

To what extent am I invoking No True Scotsman?

To the extant that you’re claiming millions of self-identifying American leftists are actually closet conservatives.

[Bear Stearns]

Given American politics is already, to over-simplify things, quite right-wing. American "leftists" are also conservative lol.

Compared to who?

We can go even further if you want; many people assert that Russian “leftists” are even more culturally conservative than American ones.

What yardstick are you using to perpetuate this No True Scotsman fallacy?

American leftists believe that Western Europe constitutes the rest of the world.

[Dreria]

"If socialism is so good why do cubans want to come to the USA??? checkmate"

yeah because no one from guatemala and honduras and el salvadore ever tries to enter the country. they must have the same amount of dollars as the US, since they are capitalist.

The failures of Latin America have little to do with their economic systems. Argentina has proven it can be a dump whether it be capitalist or socialist, and Mexico has shown that it equally sucks under neoliberalism and socialism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuRC3HEJ71M

[Nationalist Northumbria]

"If socialism is so good why do cubans want to come to the USA??? checkmate"

yeah because no one from guatemala and honduras and el salvadore ever tries to enter the country. they must have the same amount of dollars as the US, since they are capitalist.

The failures of Latin America have little to do with their economic systems. Argentina has proven it can be a dump whether it be capitalist or socialist, and Mexico has shown that it equally sucks under neoliberalism and socialism.

We should probably look for a factor connecting all these countries, including Brazil.

[Krasny-Volny]

“Tankies”, in Western communist parlance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

There is a vocal minority of Western communists that does approve of the old guard Soviet-style regimes. The fact that these regimes are often credited with standing up to US imperialism and are in impoverished, non-white countries gives them additional moral high ground to these folks.

This is a definite split in the modern socialist movements in Western countries hardly anybody outside those movements talks about.

if you're a socialist and you hate every socialist country then you're not a socialist.

Wholeheartedly agree.

[Bear Stearns]

The failures of Latin America have little to do with their economic systems. Argentina has proven it can be a dump whether it be capitalist or socialist, and Mexico has shown that it equally sucks under neoliberalism and socialism.

We should probably look for a factor connecting all these countries, including Brazil.

I think I know what it is :^)

[Diarcesia]

Compared to full-on tankies, communists, and Marxists (inb4 "Democrats are Marxists", they are not).

To what extent am I invoking No True Scotsman?

To the extant that you’re claiming millions of self-identifying American leftists are actually closet conservatives.

Going by this dictionary assumption...

By definition, conservatism is the ideology of keeping the status quo.

...American leftists who seek changes in the US's policy are not conservatives.

[Crylante]

"If socialism is so good why do cubans want to come to the USA??? checkmate"

yeah because no one from guatemala and honduras and el salvadore ever tries to enter the country. they must have the same amount of dollars as the US, since they are capitalist.

The failures of Latin America have little to do with their economic systems. Argentina has proven it can be a dump whether it be capitalist or socialist, and Mexico has shown that it equally sucks under neoliberalism and socialism.

Neither of these countries has, to my knowledge, been socialist.

I suppose you could call the current Mexican president a socialist with a stretch and I'll admit I don't know much about the intricacies of his administration but I believe he's actually quite popular?

I believe both countries are quite a bit more developed than Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador? I think you'd make your point better if you compared the shittiness of the Sandinista govt in Nicaragua to the govts of those three countries.