The Invasion of Ukraine, Russia Threatens Finland/Sweden

[The Commonwealth of Tennessee]

So what seems to be the general consensus around the Russian army stopping short of Kyiv this evening? Waiting for supply (like they should, for a tactical perspective), catching their breath before a major assault, preparing artillery or other set-up weaponry, or a mixture of all of the above?

Most likely regrouping and resupplying but probable that some artillery and bombardment will be thrown in for good measure.

That's what I suspected, it makes sense given their failures these last two nights. Wonder if Belarus' entry into the war would help the supply issue RusFed is having right now.

[Grenartia]

I think it’s boring when people throw ”fascist” around lightly, but would it still be unfair if I just start calling Putin shills Nazis? All of the arguments that justify invasion have literally been Nazi-tier bs or actual Nazis salivating over ethnonationalist warmongering.

nazis do not support self-determination and nazis do not support states that call themselves people's republics

Considering Putin's literal blood and soil rhetoric, and the fact that one of the separatist republics is led by a literal neonazi...

[Adamede]

Most likely regrouping and resupplying but probable that some artillery and bombardment will be thrown in for good measure.

That's what I suspected, it makes sense given their failures these last two nights. Wonder if Belarus' entry into the war would help the supply issue RusFed is having right now.

Well I'm just speculating I have no concrete info for what they're going to do.

As for Belarus we'll see if their forces are better supplied and led.

[Grenartia]

I think it’s boring when people throw ”fascist” around lightly, but would it still be unfair if I just start calling Putin shills Nazis? All of the arguments that justify invasion have literally been Nazi-tier bs or actual Nazis salivating over ethnonationalist warmongering.

I got into this discussion last night

A right-wing authoritarian state doing mean things does not a Fascism make. Superficially, his actions seem a match, but Russia does not nor has it ever displayed any of the more nuanced philosophies and beliefs of Fascism.

Wanna bet?

[Saiwania]

https://www.rt.com/news/549921-nato-expansion-russia-document/

NATO officials promised Russia there would be no NATO expansion and excuses like the one you gave only mean that Russia can never trust the west again. Russia clearly believed there had been a pledge for NATO not to expand.

Words are just that. It doesn't prove that there was ever any official treaty signed or formally negotiated and enacted.

[Des-Bal]

America has formed it's consensus, we already know what Congress - Senate - and Executive have proposed and done. We already gauged media and public support. Nothing more is needed. America isn't a special snowflake that the world revolves around.
Even in horrific wars we must, for whatever nationalistic Yankee reason, reduce everything to what 'Mitt Romney has tweeted' or whatever bullshit. Unless it's truly a crucial announcement, it's unimportant.

No, see America definitely is a special snowflake. Our military power is frankly just gross the tides rise and fall at our whim. You don't need to be happy about that but you should acknowledge it.

[The Commonwealth of Tennessee]

That's what I suspected, it makes sense given their failures these last two nights. Wonder if Belarus' entry into the war would help the supply issue RusFed is having right now.

Well I'm just speculating I have no concrete info for what they're going to do.

No worries, I'd assumed it was speculation to begin with. I doubt any of us have solid actionable intel. If we did, I think the old adage "Loose Lips Sink Ships" would apply.

[Orostan]

NATO has been expanding as far as it could since 1991 in violation of agreements it had with the USSR and Russia. It is doing this because the west has never been able to fully control Russia and wants to encircle Russia. It is better for Russia to launch a war against a Ukraine which is run in large part by nazis, makes its intention to join NATO and create an unacceptable security problem for Russia known, and has recently talked about having nuclear weapons. This invasion will save lives in the long term.

Look, I know you Russians have limited access to information, so I'll just repeat: nobody (other than Russia, as Dio pointed out) held a gun to Eastern Europe's head. Eastern Europe has experienced Russian oppression in its recent history, and sees Russia's oppression of its own people and in other places, and recognizes that joining NATO is the only way to avoid a repeat of history. All NATO did is respect the sovereignty of its members and its neighbors, and be morally superior to Putin's Russia.

NATO has always been on the offensive and never the defensive, those eastern european states joining NATO have been western satellites since 1991. Russia was never going to invade them - why does NATO even exist now that the USSR is gone? Putin's russia is a thousand times more moral than NATO as it has not destroyed Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, or any other countries that defied Imperialism. Instead, it has supported opposition to the american empire. Also the USA has absolutely held a gun to Europe's head, what do you think a color revolution is?

nazis do not support self-determination and nazis do not support states that call themselves people's republics

Considering Putin's literal blood and soil rhetoric, and the fact that one of the separatist republics is led by a literal neonazi...

lmao you think blood and soil rhetoric means "when putin talks about what a nation is"? Have you been watching Vaush?

[Des-Bal]

And the west gains no benefit from provoking the nuclear bear by sending in boots.

Yes they do, they stand to achieve a number of strategic objectives which is what went into the decision to sanction Russia and arm Ukraine which also provoked the nuclear bear.

[Hispida]

So what seems to be the general consensus around the Russian army stopping short of Kyiv this evening? Waiting for supply (like they should, for a tactical perspective), catching their breath before a major assault, preparing artillery or other set-up weaponry, or a mixture of all of the above?

kyiv might be getting razed.

[Adamede]

Look, I know you Russians have limited access to information, so I'll just repeat: nobody (other than Russia, as Dio pointed out) held a gun to Eastern Europe's head. Eastern Europe has experienced Russian oppression in its recent history, and sees Russia's oppression of its own people and in other places, and recognizes that joining NATO is the only way to avoid a repeat of history. All NATO did is respect the sovereignty of its members and its neighbors, and be morally superior to Putin's Russia.

NATO has always been on the offensive and never the defensive, those eastern european states joining NATO have been western satellites since 1991. Russia was never going to invade them - why does NATO even exist now that the USSR is gone? Putin's russia is a thousand times more moral than NATO as it has not destroyed Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, or any other countries that defied Imperialism. Instead, it has supported opposition to the american empire. Also the USA has absolutely held a gun to Europe's head, what do you think a color revolution is?

Considering Putin's literal blood and soil rhetoric, and the fact that one of the separatist republics is led by a literal neonazi...

lmao you think blood and soil rhetoric means "when putin talks about what a nation is"? Have you been watching Vaush?

Do you honestly believe the bullshit that you're typing?

[Orostan]

https://www.rt.com/news/549921-nato-expansion-russia-document/

NATO officials promised Russia there would be no NATO expansion and excuses like the one you gave only mean that Russia can never trust the west again. Russia clearly believed there had been a pledge for NATO not to expand.

Words are just that. It doesn't prove that there was ever any official treaty signed or formally negotiated and enacted.

You are lawyering about a pledge that was made to Russia by NATO, should Russia just never ever trust NATO ever again? Does the spirit of mutual trust in diplomacy now not exist because "muh written agreement"?

[Adamede]

And the west gains no benefit from provoking the nuclear bear by sending in boots.

Yes they do, they stand to achieve a number of strategic objectives which is what went into the decision to sanction Russia and arm Ukraine which also provoked the nuclear bear.

All at the risk of billions of people dying and their nations being incinerated off the map. It's a risk no world leader so far has been willing to take. It's why the og Cold War never went hot between the two super powers.

[Orostan]

NATO has always been on the offensive and never the defensive, those eastern european states joining NATO have been western satellites since 1991. Russia was never going to invade them - why does NATO even exist now that the USSR is gone? Putin's russia is a thousand times more moral than NATO as it has not destroyed Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, or any other countries that defied Imperialism. Instead, it has supported opposition to the american empire. Also the USA has absolutely held a gun to Europe's head, what do you think a color revolution is?


lmao you think blood and soil rhetoric means "when putin talks about what a nation is"? Have you been watching Vaush?

Do you honestly believe the bullshit that you're typing?

Do you honestly believe the bullshit that you're typing?

[Adamede]

Words are just that. It doesn't prove that there was ever any official treaty signed or formally negotiated and enacted.

You are lawyering about a pledge that was made to Russia by NATO, should Russia just never ever trust NATO ever again? Does the spirit of mutual trust in diplomacy now not exist because "muh written agreement"?

Russia has never trusted NATO, and as can be seen NATO can't trust Russia.

[Adamede]

Do you honestly believe the bullshit that you're typing?

Do you honestly believe the bullshit that you're typing?

No, but then again I've not been typing out any bullshit.

[The Commonwealth of Tennessee]

So what seems to be the general consensus around the Russian army stopping short of Kyiv this evening? Waiting for supply (like they should, for a tactical perspective), catching their breath before a major assault, preparing artillery or other set-up weaponry, or a mixture of all of the above?

kyiv might be getting razed.

The old Grozny treatment. If you can't beat your opponent with conventional tactics, we'll just destroy everything you've ever known and rub your face in it at the same time. Probably doesn't go exactly like that, but that's how I'd imagine it going down. Might (will) be horrific for PR if that's the route they're going with. But, given Russia's stance on journalism, I doubt they care too much about PR in the face of everything they've been held to.

[Saiwania]

So what seems to be the general consensus around the Russian army stopping short of Kyiv this evening? Waiting for supply (like they should, for a tactical perspective), catching their breath before a major assault, preparing artillery or other set-up weaponry, or a mixture of all of the above?

If the Russian formation has to pause, now is the best time for Ukraine to counterattack or try destroying it from afar. The point is that they can't wait for the resupply or reinforcements to arrive if they can help it. Dogged resistence the entire time is the way to blunt Russia's advance.

[Orostan]

kyiv might be getting razed.

The old Grozny treatment. If you can't beat your opponent with conventional tactics, we'll just destroy everything you've ever known and rub your face in it at the same time. Probably doesn't go exactly like that, but that's how I'd imagine it going down. Might (will) be horrific for PR if that's the route they're going with. But, given Russia's stance on journalism, I doubt they care too much about PR in the face of everything they've been held to.

Russia has been very restrained and not targeted civilians at all. Their tanks even stop for traffic. They will probably not raze Kiev and will instead try and encircle it while forcing Ukraine to keep a lot of resources there defending it.

Do you honestly believe the bullshit that you're typing?

No, but then again I've not been typing out any bullshit.

You have done nothing but that.

[Des-Bal]

All at the risk of billions of people dying and their nations being incinerated off the map. It's a risk no world leader so far has been willing to take. It's why the og Cold War never went hot between the two super powers.

Yeah that's not a magical line in the sand.

[The Nihilistic view]

You're circling the point. He ALREADY did the escalation that is a deterrent carrying out the threat provides a host of consequences and no additional benefit.

And the west gains no benefit from provoking the nuclear bear by sending in boots.

Bear Tupolev is lost in the woods though, drinking it's own piss out of a snakeskin.

[Suriyanakhon]

Ukraine does have a far-right movement, and its armed defenders include the Azov battalion, a far-right nationalist militia group. But no democratic country is free of far-right nationalist groups, including the United States. In the 2019 election, the Ukrainian far right was humiliated, receiving only 2% of the vote. This is far less support than far-right parties receive across western Europe, including inarguably democratic countries such as France and Germany.

Link

Doesn't seem that full of Nazis.. especially given 70% voted for a Jewish leader.. except that..

Putin, the leader of Russian Christian nationalism, has come to view himself as the global leader of Christian nationalism, and is increasingly regarded as such by Christian nationalists around the world, including in the United States. Putin has emerged as a leader of this movement in part because of the global reach of recent Russian fascist thinkers such as Alexander Dugin and Alexander Prokhanov who laid its groundwork.

It is easy to recognize, in Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, the roadmap laid out in recent years by Dugin and Prokhanov, major figures in Putin’s Russia. Both Dugin and Prokhanov viewed an independent Ukraine as an existential threat to their goal, which Timothy Snyder, in his 2018 book The Road to Unfreedom, describes as “a desire for the return of Soviet power in fascist form”.

The form of Russian fascism Dugin and Prokhanov defended is like the central versions of European fascism – explicitly antisemitic. As Snyder writes, “… if Prokhanov had a core belief, it was the endless struggle of the empty and abstract sea-people against the hearty and righteous land-people. Like Adolf Hitler, Prokhanov blamed world Jewry for inventing the ideas that enslaved his homeland. He also blamed them for the Holocaust.”

The dominant version of antisemitism alive in parts of eastern Europe today is that Jews employ the Holocaust to seize the victimhood narrative from the “real” victims of the Nazis, who are Russian Christians (or other non-Jewish eastern Europeans). Those who embrace Russian Christian nationalist ideology will be especially susceptible to this strain of antisemitism.

With this background, we can understand why Putin chose the actions he did, as well as the words he used to justify them. Ukraine has always been the primary target of those who seek to restore “Soviet power in fascist form”. Echoing familiar fascist antisemitic tropes, in a 2021 article, former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev denounced Zelenskiy as disgusting, corrupt and faithless. The free democratic election of a Jewish president confirms in the fascist mind that the fascist bogeyman of liberal democracy as a tool for global Jewish domination is real.

Dugin isn't an anti-semite or a nazi and that article is garbage. Also the Azov battalion is an OFFICIAL part of Ukraine's armed forces, you cannot say the same about neo-nazis in any other country.

Dugin has identified himself as a Nazi before and openly quotes Anti-Semitic thinkers such as Evola and Heidegger to support his ultra-nationalism. He's an extreme fascist and the fact that he's taken seriously by some in the Russian government is insane.

[Orostan]

You are lawyering about a pledge that was made to Russia by NATO, should Russia just never ever trust NATO ever again? Does the spirit of mutual trust in diplomacy now not exist because "muh written agreement"?

Russia has never trusted NATO, and as can be seen NATO can't trust Russia.

Russia has never trusted NATO because NATO keeps destroying countries and breaking agreements with Russia. Russia hasn't done that, they said they'd invade if Ukraine kept attacking the republics and Ukraine kept attacking the republics so they invaded.

[El Lazaro]

So far as NATO expansion goes, an agreement with Russia has never been codified nor was any ever signed or made formal. There was a verbal agreement at best, but I forget which individual(s) it was that effectively made promises that couldn't be kept once they were out of the picture or retired and successors with different priorities came in.

https://www.rt.com/news/549921-nato-expansion-russia-document/

NATO officials promised Russia there would be no NATO expansion and excuses like the one you gave only mean that Russia can never trust the west again. Russia clearly believed there had been a pledge for NATO not to expand.

This is literally just an extreme form of imperialism, tankie “literature” is one hell of a drug. Do you have beliefs other than “America bad”?

Imperialism is not "when the army does stuff", imperialism is a system of financial domination that Russia is fighting against.

Militarily invading a sovereign country with a democratically elected government to expand your territory and advance state interests isn’t just textbook imperialism, it’s ultra-imperialism. I’m worried for you if you believe the words coming out of your own mouth.

"That damn Jewish nazi running Ukraine"

There were Jewish Nazi collaborators and Zelensky is one of them. Do you think the Azov Battalion or Right Sector do not exist?

Sure, in your fantasy world, maybe Zelensky communicates with Adolf through a Ouija board and as we speak, he says “Mein Fuhrer, the plan to exterminate the Ruski Mongoloids is proceeding as planned, heil Hitler!” But the rest of us live on Earth and all this propaganda sounds rather silly. Does defending dearest leader Putin ever get too embarrassing?

[Adamede]

No, but then again I've not been typing out any bullshit.

You have done nothing but that.

Not that I can see. Like it or not but Russia is the aggressor in an unprovoked war against Ukraine that has lasted for 8 years now. Putin is a war criminal. That's the truth.