The Invasion of Ukraine, Russia Threatens Finland/Sweden

[Senkaku]

The republican narrative appears to be that Trump threatened a nuclear war and Putin backed down. I don't find this implausible for the simple reason that it sounds like something Trump would do(he was, umm, seemingly fond of nuclear weapons) and Putin was sane prior to his year and a half of total isolation.

Trump threatened a nuclear war? Fucking when? Between breaths while fellating Putin's ego on the world stage?

If there's any credibility to the rumors, it's probably a lot less specific-- Trump did sort of give the vibe that he was good at getting out from under his minders and being unpredictably mischievous, which are not qualities you want in your opponent's nuclear-armed potential ally when planning a major conventional war.

[Adamede]

I think it’s boring when people throw ”fascist” around lightly, but would it still be unfair if I just start calling Putin shills Nazis? All of the arguments that justify invasion have literally been Nazi-tier bs or actual Nazis salivating over ethnonationalist warmongering.

A lot of them are literal Nazis it seems. Anti-Semitism and racism and all.

[The Grand World Order]

I think it’s boring when people throw ”fascist” around lightly, but would it still be unfair if I just start calling Putin shills Nazis? All of the arguments that justify invasion have literally been Nazi-tier bs or actual Nazis salivating over ethnonationalist warmongering.

A lot of them are literal Nazis it seems. Anti-Semitism and racism and all.

There's lots of "literal Nazis" on both sides. Labeling one as "the Nazi side" in either case is pure propaganda.

[Grenartia]

This is so annoying. Can all American posters stop discussing internal American politic for this instance? We have discussed your domestics for years now, current situation is bigger than red v blue.

Like it or not, what American politicians think about the situation in Ukraine is entirely relevant to this thread, as that inherently has implications for American policy in regards to Ukraine, Russia, and NATO.

[Des-Bal]

Please someone tell twitter and American media that.

I will say the reputation of Amero-centrism that American culture has acquired is well deserved.

Sorry, we're swinging the biggest dick on the planet and our internal politics NECESSARILY affect the entire world. The atomic war people are doomsaying isn't from Ukraine biting back its from the dread the Yankees might start putting their boots on. We are the teeth in the mouth of NATO.

[Senkaku]

No it's not, Russia is already using Belarusian bases so it's simply a counter-measure. Should NATO just bend over and let Russia use all it's springboards without giving Ukraine some base support? Nuclear war won't happen.

Here is the thing, what you think is rational doesn’t count. Your finger isn't on the button, Putin's is. Every step closer just opens up the opportunity for escalation. I am not saying its going to occur, much like the Cuban missle crises which got much closer than today, it becomes a legitimate concern.

The US didn't bomb Vietnamese airbases in southern China when Vietnamese planes were literally flying sorties from them, so I think we can be pretty assured the Russians aren't going to start bombing NATO airbases just because they're being used as staging sites for arms transfers to Ukraine. Like, that wouldn't just be "irrational" or a dictator being surprisingly aggressive or whatever, that would be psychotic-break, FSB-breaking-down-the-Kremlin-doors, he-actually-has-advanced-Parkinson's level shit

[Adamede]

I think it’s boring when people throw ”fascist” around lightly, but would it still be unfair if I just start calling Putin shills Nazis? All of the arguments that justify invasion have literally been Nazi-tier bs or actual Nazis salivating over ethnonationalist warmongering.

nazis do not support self-determination and nazis do not support states that call themselves people's republics

Which is why they support Russia annexing the entire region.

[Orostan]

I think it’s boring when people throw ”fascist” around lightly, but would it still be unfair if I just start calling Putin shills Nazis? All of the arguments that justify invasion have literally been Nazi-tier bs or actual Nazis salivating over ethnonationalist warmongering.

Ukraine is full of nazis and I would be banned from calling Ukraine supporters nazis. Why should you get to say something stupid like this when the invasion is only happening because of NATO expansion against Russia and Ukraine's own government?

I think it’s boring when people throw ”fascist” around lightly, but would it still be unfair if I just start calling Putin shills Nazis? All of the arguments that justify invasion have literally been Nazi-tier bs or actual Nazis salivating over ethnonationalist warmongering.

A lot of them are literal Nazis it seems. Anti-Semitism and racism and all.

Are these russian nazis in the room with us right now?

The issue is nukes being used by accident in a high tension situation. Nuclear use would be because of mistakes that have happened in the past and only narrowly allowed the survival of humanity.


I certainly hope none of us will, which is why I support de-escalation and a quick Russian victory.

Putin achieved zero of his projected day-one aims and has killed countless of Russian boys, they should leave and cut their loses already. It's been an international humiliation. If they want nuclear De-escalation then they should leave and stop the war.

If Russia is achieving nothing how come the front line keeps moving deeper into Ukrainian territory?

[Adamede]

lol try harder dude, otherwise you may get a pay cut

im paid in rubles the west is already destroying my pay stop taunting me

Ask if they'll pay in crypto shares for cryptoland.

[Grenartia]

The republican narrative appears to be that Trump threatened a nuclear war and Putin backed down. I don't find this implausible for the simple reason that it sounds like something Trump would do(he was, umm, seemingly fond of nuclear weapons) and Putin was sane prior to his year and a half of total isolation.

This is why I unironically believe Putin would be treading much more carefully if Trump was still in charge. Not because Trump is particularly responsible or a good statesman, but just because he's so unpredictable. Dude could be threatening to nuke Moscow, I can see it.

Not really, Trump basically owed his entire presidency to Putin.

[The Commonwealth of Tennessee]

Very curious to see you explain this in a little more depth, if you don't mind.

NATO has been expanding as far as it could since 1991 in violation of agreements it had with the USSR and Russia. It is doing this because the west has never been able to fully control Russia and wants to encircle Russia. It is better for Russia to launch a war against a Ukraine which is run in large part by nazis, makes its intention to join NATO and create an unacceptable security problem for Russia known, and has recently talked about having nuclear weapons. This invasion will save lives in the long term.

Thank you for your insight, it's certainly a take I haven't heard yet. Appreciate it.

[Free Algerstonia]

nazis do not support self-determination and nazis do not support states that call themselves people's republics

Which is why they support Russia annexing the entire region.

nazis do not support the putinist/socialist/marxist restoration of the ukrainian soviet socialist republic

[Des-Bal]

Yah and it would also see the west annihilated, which means they'll take his threat seriously and not intervene.

See thats exactly the point. Putin has every incentive to make the threat and zero incentive to act on it. Saying "I will nuke the world if you do anything bad to me!" advances his objectives trying to pull it off just fucks him.

[Adamede]

A lot of them are literal Nazis it seems. Anti-Semitism and racism and all.

There's lots of "literal Nazis" on both sides. Labeling one as "the Nazi side" in either case is pure propaganda.

When did I call the Russian side Nazis? I said they had a lot of supporters who where literally Nazis.

[Orostan]

A lot of them are literal Nazis it seems. Anti-Semitism and racism and all.

There's lots of "literal Nazis" on both sides. Labeling one as "the Nazi side" in either case is pure propaganda.

No, there are only nazis on the Ukranian side like the Azov Battalion, Right Sector, and a bunch of other fascist operation GLADIO gangs that control Ukraine's government.

[El Lazaro]

A lot of people have to give confirmation before nukes can actually be launched. I don’t think we were in real danger of that happening.

The issue is nukes being used by accident in a high tension situation. Nuclear use would be because of mistakes that have happened in the past and only narrowly allowed the survival of humanity.

Have you experienced a nuclear war?

I certainly hope none of us will, which is why I support de-escalation and a quick Russian victory.

I hope so too, which is why I support the destruction of any real power the Kremlin has in international politics and the confinement of Putin into utter irrelevancy. He is the only one threatening nuclear war, or even escalating this invasion for that matter. In the unnecessarily crass words of Slavoj Žižek,

”All of us from countries which have to witness the sad affair of Ukraine’s rape should be aware that only a real castration prevents rape. So we should recommend that the international community carries out a castrative operation on Russia — ignoring and marginalizing them as much as possible, making it sure that afterwards, nothing else will grow of their global authority.”

[Adamede]

I think it’s boring when people throw ”fascist” around lightly, but would it still be unfair if I just start calling Putin shills Nazis? All of the arguments that justify invasion have literally been Nazi-tier bs or actual Nazis salivating over ethnonationalist warmongering.

Ukraine is full of nazis and I would be banned from calling Ukraine supporters nazis. Why should you get to say something stupid like this when the invasion is only happening because of NATO expansion against Russia and Ukraine's own government?

A lot of them are literal Nazis it seems. Anti-Semitism and racism and all.

Are these russian nazis in the room with us right now?

Yes, they're in your house right now as we speak. Check under your bed and in your closet..

[Orostan]

NATO has been expanding as far as it could since 1991 in violation of agreements it had with the USSR and Russia. It is doing this because the west has never been able to fully control Russia and wants to encircle Russia. It is better for Russia to launch a war against a Ukraine which is run in large part by nazis, makes its intention to join NATO and create an unacceptable security problem for Russia known, and has recently talked about having nuclear weapons. This invasion will save lives in the long term.

Thank you for your insight, it's certainly a take I haven't heard yet. Appreciate it.

It is important to look at this from Russia's point of view and get past all the media propaganda. If the media and government lied to us about Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, and every other war why would they not lie about this one?

[The Commonwealth of Tennessee]

This is so annoying. Can all American posters stop discussing internal American politic for this instance? We have discussed your domestics for years now, current situation is bigger than red v blue.

Like it or not, what American politicians think about the situation in Ukraine is entirely relevant to this thread, as that inherently has implications for American policy in regards to Ukraine, Russia, and NATO.

It can be easy to forget sometimes that lower level operators have and form their own opinions towards things. I think it's easy to look straight to the top dogs out of Washington and forget about the hundreds of other representatives. Foreign policy is one hell of a beast, isn't it?

[Latvijas Otra Republika]

Putin waited for a weak president.

If that were true, he would have done something while Trump was in office and openly questioning the need for NATO.

Bruh.
The alliance would've worsened if he hadn't tried to get member states to commit to 2.00% military expenditure and sanction nord-stream 2. I've said this before but his backing of things like the Three Seas Initiative and pressure on Germany to stop getting Russian gas is crucial, we can't become complacent.

[Grenartia]

Sometimes it is nice to watch bullies get bullied, or at least stood up to.

NATO is the bully, Russia is doing nothing wrong.

Sure, if you buy into the Putinist media's version of events.

[Hispida]

There's lots of "literal Nazis" on both sides. Labeling one as "the Nazi side" in either case is pure propaganda.

No, there are only nazis on the Ukranian side like the Azov Battalion, Right Sector, and a bunch of other fascist operation GLADIO gangs that control Ukraine's government.

relevant

[Adamede]

Yah and it would also see the west annihilated, which means they'll take his threat seriously and not intervene.

See thats exactly the point. Putin has every incentive to make the threat and zero incentive to act on it. Saying "I will nuke the world if you do anything bad to me!" advances his objectives trying to pull it off just fucks him.

He also has zero incentive to make the threat and not follow through, because then MAD goes out the window.

[Saiwania]

So far as NATO expansion goes, an agreement with Russia has never been codified nor was any ever signed or made formal. There was a verbal agreement at best, but I forget which individual(s) it was that effectively made promises that couldn't be kept once they were out of the picture or retired and successors with different priorities came in.

[Jerzylvania]

This is why I unironically believe Putin would be treading much more carefully if Trump was still in charge. Not because Trump is particularly responsible or a good statesman, but just because he's so unpredictable. Dude could be threatening to nuke Moscow, I can see it.

Not really, Trump basically owed his entire presidency to Putin.

Without one doubt.