NATION

PASSWORD

The Invasion of Ukraine, Russia Threatens Finland/Sweden

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What do?

NATO should decline these demands and begin preparing for WW3 to break out.
683
38%
NATO should decline these demands and hope it's fine and/or limited to the invasion of Ukraine.
360
20%
NATO should negotiate.
502
28%
NATO should accept these demands.
267
15%
 
Total votes : 1812

User avatar
Berhakonia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 454
Founded: Apr 03, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Berhakonia » Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:33 am

Russia has every right to be imperialist, because they sell themselves as an imperialistic power. Europe's main MO is "economic stability and the preservation of the democratic process" and has a lot harder of a time justifying their imperialism.
A Confederation of Clans in Fealty to the Imperial Throne of Gobul
"There are foolish leaders who believe their subjects as lessers to be subjugated, and there are wise leaders who understand that they are their subjects are one in the same."
-Asrau Arslan XIV Jangpavalgan
Brotherhood, Tradition, Charity

User avatar
Mtwara
Envoy
 
Posts: 219
Founded: Aug 31, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Mtwara » Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:56 am

Have these demands been made with a foreign or domestic audience in mind? The Russian government will know their requests are completely unfeasible.

The only way we'll really end this is by cutting European demand for Russian gas, because the bottom line will always be that western Europe cannot afford a war with Russia where they close the pipelines.
Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.56

User avatar
Vikanias
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1802
Founded: May 01, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vikanias » Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:12 am

Gonna make a conspiracy; Joe Biden is a JEW and so is Putin, both are also GAY and probably your have kissed each other, but that’s not the end, Jerusalem is not a REAL city, it’s a super-mega-gay-Jew beam that will turn us all into gay Jews! The leader of Israel is Trans and hates our FREEDOM LOVING AMERICAN SOCIETY, they want us to act like little girls, the Jews have planned this since day 1 to make our LORD and SAVIOUR Donald Trump bend the knee to GAY Putin and give up some nations, all AMERICAN in ORIGIN. As the greatest AMERICAN to ever live, JESUS says; “being gay bad, but actually it’s not a sin to be gay, it was a mistranslation from Hebrew to English, it was originally youngster, which was made into young man, and into man. So being gay isn’t a sin, being a Pedophile is.”
AAAAA IM ON FIRE!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE READING THIS SIG COME HELP ME FOR GODS SAKE AAAAAAA!!!!!!

proud member of LDO and NATO


Honk Honk

User avatar
-Goguryeo
Attaché
 
Posts: 82
Founded: Dec 08, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby -Goguryeo » Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:19 am

But hey, if Russia does declare war, they will lose and we could see multiple revolutions happen in its territory post-war. Who's ready for the balkanization of Russian Federation?
Last edited by -Goguryeo on Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Peoples' Committee of Goryeo
》 POPULATION: 9 Million | GOVERNMENT: Fractured Coalition of Left-Wing Factions | ERA: 1972 C.E | ANTHEM: Tribute to the Nation's Heroes

〔Reality Itself has been Torn [ A s u n d e r ], Stubbornly We Persist.〕

User avatar
ImperialRussia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 667
Founded: May 16, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby ImperialRussia » Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:25 am

Basically the instincts of survival the weaker you are the lower the chances you are to survival but if your in a pack you have increase chances of Survivability to stand against the opponent. But the if a nation wants help the Promises are not meet then made them selfs to die due lack of group willing to anything push themselves forward to death. Only one way forward is destroying your opponent completely then their you triumph until they meet your terms to agreement that you settled in for peace and stability. Only crows watch as weak minded individuals cowar in the face of despair. If you finish your opponent by the neck then you finish by neck same as for a nation. Their is nothing but gaining the advantage once internet access isn’t accessible around areas of your opponent in the battle field. For a nation settle to be with itself turned to the dark ages needs to know how to live without the modernized world dependent on electronics it would lead its certain collapse in the near future nations have veins they can be cut open to collapse like internet crypto currencies international trade and more internet can be cut off from the rest of world without people knowing it. No matter what nation was the highest or inclusive they are really do they have control of citizens due too their petty needs in which means create generate chaos and crime. If really their is WW3 can even governments even regulate the black market it be utterly impossible because internet would utterly be inaccessible. Really nations could use submarines to disconnect under water under ground internet lines international or global trade it doesn’t take that much even without a nuke.
Last edited by ImperialRussia on Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:47 am, edited 8 times in total.

User avatar
Laka Strolistandiler
Senator
 
Posts: 4033
Founded: Jul 14, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Laka Strolistandiler » Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:39 am

Mtwara wrote:Have these demands been made with a foreign or domestic audience in mind? The Russian government will know their requests are completely unfeasible.

No one cares about us lol :(
I am not a Russian but a Cameroonian born in this POS.
An autocratic monarchy with elements of aristocracy which is militaristic to the point of suicidal. Nuclear armed ready to use this weapon on any agressor or itself to prevent capture. Ruled over by a combination of medieval-ish thinking of workers and peasants and incredibly hierarchical society. A British-ish colonial empire incorporating some partially democratic nations who just want some WMD’s
Quote of the day:They forced the life on me. I do not want to live. My life brings happiness to no one
Pronouns up to your choice but I’d prefer to be referred to as she/her.
I reserve the right to /stillme any one-liners if my post is at least two lines long

User avatar
Juristonia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5647
Founded: Oct 30, 2006
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Juristonia » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:15 am

Untecna wrote:It would be stupid to agree to it. Russia is trying to push what they know will be opposed, and they clearly want war.

That said, war would most likely end unfruitful for them.

Russia doesn't want war, because they know they'd never win a conventional war.
This is theatrics from a leader who has been slowly losing support from his own people and is trying to portray himself as a strong, bold leader who will defend his people.
He doesn't care that the west thinks it's laughable, as long as he looks good to his own people.
Damn the man! Save the Empire!
Liriena wrote:Say what you will about fascists: they are remarkably consistent even after several decades of failing spectacularly elsewhere.

Ifreann wrote:Indeed, as far as I can recall only one poster has ever supported legalising bestiality, and he was fucking his cat and isn't welcome here any more, in no small part, I imagine, because he kept going on about how he was fucking his cat.

Cannot think of a name wrote:Anyway, I'm from gold country, we grow up knowing that when people jump up and down shouting "GOLD GOLD GOLD" the gold is gone and the only money to be made is in selling shovels.

And it seems to me that cryptocurrency and NFTs and such suddenly have a whooooole lot of shovel salespeople.

User avatar
Cosmic79
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 167
Founded: Jul 16, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Cosmic79 » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:18 am

Fiorina-Fury 161 wrote:Tell Putin to shove it up his ass.


Laconic and to the point. Nice.

Russia only understands force. Will Europe understand this before or after they reach annex half the continent? I guess we'll find out.

User avatar
Antipatros
Minister
 
Posts: 2677
Founded: Aug 26, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Antipatros » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:51 am


User avatar
Kerwa
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1283
Founded: Jul 24, 2021
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Kerwa » Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:46 am

Isn’t this just a response to the US threatening sanctions for Russia for moving it’s own troops inside it’s own borders? In other words a sort of “we can make asshole demands too” sort of thing. And it’s not like any of their senior politicians is talking about nuking anything (unlike the US).

I really don’t think they are serious. What I do think is they want guarantees that Ukraine won’t join NATO; I see their point, sort of. Anyway, no one is going to go to war over Ukraine, it’s not worth it, especially since the consequences could be devastating. I do think the US is acting in an unnecessarily bellicose fashion and agitating for some conflict however (Possibly with Iran, China or Russia - even Blinken is not sure about which) as the administration is essentially run by flower children who are trying desperately to not fail at something at least once before they die. Hence this stupid sanctions talk.

Ultimately all I see is Russia, like South America and Africa being driven further into China’s arms.
Last edited by Kerwa on Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Lady Victory
Minister
 
Posts: 2444
Founded: Apr 27, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Lady Victory » Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:45 am

NATO shouldn't withdraw from any member states whatsoever, but we should remove our nuclear missiles from foreign countries both in Europe and elsewhere as ICBMs make the idea of strategic launching positions rather redundant.

NATO should remove it's personnel from non-NATO member states as well.

NATO shouldn't keep expanding and in fact I'd like to see it dissolved sometime in the future when the Russians have backed down a bit.

NATO should definitely not be running training drills with Ukraine, the South Caucasus, or Central Asia but given several NATO members are in Eastern Europe there's no reason to stop with those specific countries there.



Overall most of these demands aren't that unreasonable; it's the one where NATO should abandon half it's membership based on geography that is totally ludicrous. The rest are more or less acceptable.
☆ American Left-wing Nationalist and Christian ☆
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."
"Fascism is not to be debated, it is to be destroyed!"


She/Her - Call me Jenny or LV

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40534
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:00 am

Lady Victory wrote:NATO shouldn't withdraw from any member states whatsoever, but we should remove our nuclear missiles from foreign countries both in Europe and elsewhere as ICBMs make the idea of strategic launching positions rather redundant.

NATO should remove it's personnel from non-NATO member states as well.

NATO shouldn't keep expanding and in fact I'd like to see it dissolved sometime in the future when the Russians have backed down a bit.

NATO should definitely not be running training drills with Ukraine, the South Caucasus, or Central Asia but given several NATO members are in Eastern Europe there's no reason to stop with those specific countries there.



Overall most of these demands aren't that unreasonable; it's the one where NATO should abandon half it's membership based on geography that is totally ludicrous. The rest are more or less acceptable.


You just abandoned South Korea, Australia and Japan to the Chinese

User avatar
Federated Island Republics
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Nov 16, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Federated Island Republics » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:04 am

I feel these demands are being placed with the (not totally unfounded) expectations that the West will spurn them, thereby making it seem as if it were the nato's diffidence that led to Russia interpreting Ukraine as a threat and attacking them.

If you sanction Russia too much (and it's almost confirmed nobody will act militarily against Moscow) Russia will soften up to China more and that's basically an East West Cold War Part II.

User avatar
Unstoppable Empire of Doom
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1798
Founded: Dec 18, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:05 am

Strange, I was just assured by a european that all of Europe has very close and friendly ties with Russia. They also explained that Europe is subsidizing america with bread and that american soldiers are gay.

Welcome to the internet.

Meanwhile I still believe European members of NATO need to increase military spending and meet treaty obligations. Only 4 of them consistantly do. The US should withdraw from European defense after 75 years. Leave nuclear detterence as a going away present.
Whoever said "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink" has clearly never drown a horse.

User avatar
Rosmana
Diplomat
 
Posts: 909
Founded: Apr 08, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rosmana » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:07 am

Sounds like the demands an NS nation would make to start off a war story.....
-News in Dispatches, NS stats are not accurate-Looking for a new region-
-I still hates the modern songs in Church, and I still hate singing in general-
My other nation is North Rosmana

Wanne know my RL views?, ask me.
-Stop Putin NOW, copy if you agree-

User avatar
Dispertag
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 116
Founded: Nov 22, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Dispertag » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:13 am

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Strange, I was just assured by a european that all of Europe has very close and friendly ties with Russia. They also explained that Europe is subsidizing america with bread and that american soldiers are gay.

Welcome to the internet.

Meanwhile I still believe European members of NATO need to increase military spending and meet treaty obligations. Only 4 of them consistantly do. The US should withdraw from European defense after 75 years. Leave nuclear detterence as a going away present.

I wish this would become true, but Europe has kneeled upon some political buenismo that we call it in Spain. Which means in Europe we have decided to forget the world is in a constant race for dominance and that war still exists. We think know nothing can happen to the nice, innocent, old Europe because we are constantly trying to spread this message that only peace is an option and that violence doesn't work, while the rest of the world is still working under real life circumstances, which aren't always good and peaceful. Europe should really rearm itself because we are a for today the most defenseless people in the world.
Last edited by Dispertag on Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
I, Augusto Santamaría Úzqueda, rule this Monarchy called Dispertag
Proud member of The Iron Alliance
Liberal Conservative
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
“Tiempo de rojos: hambre y piojos” —> “Commie time: hunger and lice”

User avatar
Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 64791
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:22 am

New haven america wrote:...

Does anyone know how Ukraine and Sweden/Finland feels about NATO membership?


According to one public poll in Finland I found based on autumn 2021
11% Agree with joining to NATO
15% Lean for joining NATO
33% Are unsure
18% Lean against joining NATO
22% Disagree with joining NATO
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
I ᴛʜɪɴᴋ I'ᴠᴇ ᴊᴜsᴛ ʜᴀᴅ ᴀ ɴᴇᴀʀ Aʀᴀʀᴀɢɪ ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴇɴᴄᴇ.
— Death. Probably.

User avatar
Gurkland
Attaché
 
Posts: 67
Founded: Jun 30, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Gurkland » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:23 am

NATO should accept these demands because the USA is still on a cold war mentality and surrounding Russia and impoverish them with all these sanctions and bank freezes is unacceptable. Crimea is a russian majority location and Ukraine itself imposed sanctions on Crimea and blocked its ports. In the European Union there are countries that did opposed sanctions and rely on Russia as a strategic trade partner and any worsening of relationships is not a good thing.
Innovation economics, R&D spending, Gesellianism, GMO and Vaccines, Monarchism, Renewables, Madokaism, Rationality, Free education, opportunities for all, Functional Finance, Social security.


Bureaucratic Elites, Sharia law, Belief without evidence, Homeopathy, Juridicial and Political Corruption, Drugs.
.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 71635
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:26 am

Gurkland wrote:NATO should accept these demands because the USA is still on a cold war mentality and surrounding Russia and impoverish them with all these sanctions and bank freezes is unacceptable. Crimea is a russian majority location and Ukraine itself imposed sanctions on Crimea and blocked its ports. In the European Union there are countries that did opposed sanctions and rely on Russia as a strategic trade partner and any worsening of relationships is not a good thing.

Tell Putin I said hello.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
The Blaatschapen
Tech Modling
 
Posts: 61441
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:33 am

Gurkland wrote:NATO should accept these demands because the USA is still on a cold war mentality and surrounding Russia and impoverish them with all these sanctions and bank freezes is unacceptable. Crimea is a russian majority location and Ukraine itself imposed sanctions on Crimea and blocked its ports. In the European Union there are countries that did opposed sanctions and rely on Russia as a strategic trade partner and any worsening of relationships is not a good thing.


If the USA is on a cold war mentality (sic) , then why should nato accept the demands? It's a non-sequitur.
Last edited by The Blaatschapen on Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
1. Tech modling. No idea what it means, but it has a fancy colour.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Size matters. Bigger is forbidden and won't give the mods pleasure.

User avatar
Khaanada
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Oct 14, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Khaanada » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:35 am

In diplomacy as in cattle trading, the opening bids are usually a bit exagerated.

NATO should negotiate an outcome whereby Ukraine is split up in the Russian majority provinces in the east (which can then join Russia if they want) and the western parts, which clearly don´t want to be under Russian influence.

Russia in return should give up any claims over countries where no such geographically demarcated majorities exist (the Baltic States comes to mind).

NATO should indeed stop creeping up on Russia: the US would freak out too if Cuba, Canada, and Mexico all stationed troops along the borders and waterways - simultaneously no less.

And no, I am not a Russian at all. Just someone with a history book that informs me of how strange a concept Ukraine is, when for most of its history it was split up in two separate spheres of influence.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 71635
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:41 am

Khaanada wrote:In diplomacy as in cattle trading, the opening bids are usually a bit exagerated.

NATO should negotiate an outcome whereby Ukraine is split up in the Russian majority provinces in the east (which can then join Russia if they want) and the western parts, which clearly don´t want to be under Russian influence.

Russia in return should give up any claims over countries where no such geographically demarcated majorities exist (the Baltic States comes to mind).

NATO should indeed stop creeping up on Russia: the US would freak out too if Cuba, Canada, and Mexico all stationed troops along the borders and waterways - simultaneously no less.

And no, I am not a Russian at all. Just someone with a history book that informs me of how strange a concept Ukraine is, when for most of its history it was split up in two separate spheres of influence.

I mean, try to invade the Gunshine state. Or Texas for that matter.

Edit: best Pokémon story ever.

“Cuban Troops use GUNS on Florida. It’s not very effective.”
“Florida uses ALLIGATORS ON CRYSTAL METH against Cuban Troops. it’s super effective!”
Last edited by Galloism on Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Unstoppable Empire of Doom
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1798
Founded: Dec 18, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:43 am

Lady Victory wrote:NATO shouldn't withdraw from any member states whatsoever, but we should remove our nuclear missiles from foreign countries both in Europe and elsewhere as ICBMs make the idea of strategic launching positions rather redundant.

First strikes are still incredibly important and it is why submarines are so threatening. To abandon 1/3 of the nuclear triad is, strategically and tactically, foolish in an era where high altitude interception is regularly demonstrated. Russia just shot a satellite in orbit and the US shot the fuel tank on a satellite that had been de-orbited and was reentering the atmosphere. These demonstrations show, if anything, that strategic launch positions are even more important to maintaining nuclear deterrence. That is just my opinion though and you could argue otherwise.

Lady Victory wrote:NATO should remove it's personnel from non-NATO member states as well.

NATO members have non NATO allies. Why should they be abandoned based entirely on geography? Remember NATO is limited to Europe and Atlantic countries.

Lady Victory wrote:NATO shouldn't keep expanding and in fact I'd like to see it dissolved sometime in the future when the Russians have backed down a bit.

What about CSTO? Is it only non authoritarian multi party democracies that are not allowed to have an alliance block?

Lady Victory wrote:NATO should definitely not be running training drills with Ukraine, the South Caucasus, or Central Asia but given several NATO members are in Eastern Europe there's no reason to stop with those specific countries there.

Again these are non NATO allies of NATO countries. Russia definitely has training going on in non CSTO countries such as Syria and eastern Ukraine.
Whoever said "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink" has clearly never drown a horse.

User avatar
Arvenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12595
Founded: Aug 21, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Arvenia » Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:16 am

Hispida wrote:lmaooooooooo russia with the small dick energy

russia aint gonna do shit if nato just says "no"

russia can't win against nato and russia knows this
it's just power projection

Well, Russia has like China and Iran by its side.
Pro: Political Pluralism, Centrism, Liberalism, Liberal Democracy, Social Democracy, Sweden, USA, UN, ROC, Japan, South Korea, Monarchism, Republicanism, Sci-Fi, Animal Rights, Gender Equality, Mecha, Autism, Environmentalism, Secularism, Religion and LGBT Rights
Anti: Racism, Sexism, Nazism, Fascism, EU, Socialism, Adolf Hitler, Neo-Nazism, KKK, Joseph Stalin, PRC, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, Communism, Ultraconservatism, Ultranationalism, Xenophobia, Homophobia, Transphobia, WBC, Satanism, Mormonism, Anarchy, ISIS, al-Qaeda, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, 969 Movement, Political Correctness, Anti-Autistic Sentiment, Far-Right, Far-Left, Cultural Relativism, Anti-Vaxxers, Scalpers and COVID-19

User avatar
Perm the Great
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Dec 16, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Perm the Great » Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:28 am

Why would Russian oligarchs want a real war with NATO? There is no chance of winning at all.

This is probably some kind of performance.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: American Legionaries, Ava Ire, Dollystana, Duvniask, Elejamie, Emotional Support Crocodile, Fahran, Mets Hayk, Not El Salvador, Old Tyrannia, Phoenii, Polozenia Zesuplane Luzanii Gornej, Port Caverton, Shamhnan Insir, The Archregimancy, The Chinese Soviet, The Jamesian Republic, Vassenor, Vistulange, Wayneactia

Advertisement

Remove ads