American Politics IX: Winter is Coming

[Ifreann]

Trump was corrupt and incompetent, though he wasn’t a fascist and I’m tired of people violating Godwin’s Law to imply that he was literally Hitler. He was a lot more like Ferdinand Marcos.

Godwin's Law is an informal observation of trends in online conversations. Comparing Trump to Hitler doesn't violate Godwin's Law. One violates Godwin's Law by not making comparisons to Hitler or the Nazis, in the same way that the laws of Newtonian physics would be violated by the Earth suddenly turning around and orbiting the Sun in the other direction.

[Daniel-Franklin]

Pray tell who is in favor of legalizing those.

On the shoplifting front, Gavin Newsom.

I work in retail in Arizona. Trust me. Shoplifting is effectively decriminalized in a lot of states. I wish that it wasn’t. It’s not just rich people who are harmed by it. It takes money out of everyone’s pockets.

[Comerciante]

Try a dictionary.

ok, one person says, Republican President Trump is bad, no good and evil.
The other person says, Republican President Trump is the greatest President of the USA, according to my economic, political and social views. Who is right and who is wrong? Which statement is a fact and which statement is an opinion?

These are both opinions.

Especially the second one.

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

lol, so according to you he made you feel like he was shit. But according to me he is the Greatest or second Greatest President of the USA, according to my economic, political and social views. Which statement is a fact and which statement is an opinion?

Those are opinions. It is an opinion due to the the personalization of it.

oh, thank you for saying both are opinions, this is what I have been trying to tell you. But there is always a but, the personalization has nothing to do with it, both are opinions.

[Flanderstan]

Squatting
Drugs
Abortion
Murder
Robbery
Shoplifting

Legalizing murder, robbery, shoplifting, and squatting is just legalizing crimes. We aren't gonna do that anytime soon. (Unless you mean "murder" as in abortion, which is where you are wrong.)

Legalizing abortion is fair because there are teens that get pregnant and are not mature enough to raise a child. There are people that get raped and do not want that child. And sometimes, people can't afford to raise children or anything of the sort. Often, you can't know if you're pregnant until several weeks in, meaning that it is not necessarily a choice of the person to be pregnant, and nor is it the obligation of the person to keep the fetus in their body under any reasonable pretext.

Legalizing drugs? Some can stay outlawed, some can be regulated but legal. There are things that are worse than some drugs.

Also, the War on Drugs is a waste.

lol, so according to you he made you feel like he was shit. But according to me he is the Greatest or second Greatest President of the USA, according to my economic, political and social views. Which statement is a fact and which statement is an opinion?

Both are opinions, based on things that happened in reality.

Facts are like "The Earth is round" or "Election fraud in 2020 did not exist". Those things can be proven by compelling evidence, and unless damning compelling evidence is surfaced, they are facts.

Then those teens shouldn't have gotten hitched.

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

ok, one person says, Republican President Trump is bad, no good and evil.
The other person says, Republican President Trump is the greatest President of the USA, according to my economic, political and social views. Who is right and who is wrong? Which statement is a fact and which statement is an opinion?

These are both opinions.

Especially the second one.

Both are opinions, especially the second one, lol

[Ifreann]

Legalizing murder, robbery, shoplifting, and squatting is just legalizing crimes. We aren't gonna do that anytime soon. (Unless you mean "murder" as in abortion, which is where you are wrong.)

Legalizing abortion is fair because there are teens that get pregnant and are not mature enough to raise a child. There are people that get raped and do not want that child. And sometimes, people can't afford to raise children or anything of the sort. Often, you can't know if you're pregnant until several weeks in, meaning that it is not necessarily a choice of the person to be pregnant, and nor is it the obligation of the person to keep the fetus in their body under any reasonable pretext.

Legalizing drugs? Some can stay outlawed, some can be regulated but legal. There are things that are worse than some drugs.

Also, the War on Drugs is a waste.

Both are opinions, based on things that happened in reality.

Facts are like "The Earth is round" or "Election fraud in 2020 did not exist". Those things can be proven by compelling evidence, and unless damning compelling evidence is surfaced, they are facts.

Then those teens shouldn't have gotten hitched.

"Getting hitched" means getting married.

[Flanderstan]

Trump was corrupt and incompetent, though he wasn’t a fascist and I’m tired of people violating Godwin’s Law to imply that he was literally Hitler. He was a lot more like Ferdinand Marcos.

Godwin's Law is an informal observation of trends in online conversations. Comparing Trump to Hitler doesn't violate Godwin's Law. One violates Godwin's Law by not making comparisons to Hitler or the Nazis, in the same way that the laws of Newtonian physics would be violated by the Earth suddenly turning around and orbiting the Sun in the other direction.

Hows about people that dress up in masks and beat the shit out of there opponents, *cough* Antifa *cough, cough* Proud boys *cough*, not fascists but trump is.

[Necroghastia]

Agreed.

We should lift the ban on people freely entering and exiting our borders, the ban on most (if not all) drugs, the ban on consensual prostitution, etc...

If immigrants go through proper channels then we shall welcome them. But if they break the law to enter they will be returned.

Daily reminder that most "illegal immigrants" just have expired documents.

Terrorists could come through the border if it is open.

Well that went from 0 to 100.

Now regarding drugs, have you seen what drugs do? To people? To families? Its awful. If you saw it you wouldn't support it.

Conditions imprisonment only exacerbates.

Sex work should stay illegal because it is immoral and blasphemous. Its also explotative.

How is it immoral? Why should the law care about blasphemy?
A big reason it's exploitative is because of the illegal, underground nature it's been forced into. Can't regulate what's flat out illegal.

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

Legalizing murder, robbery, shoplifting, and squatting is just legalizing crimes. We aren't gonna do that anytime soon. (Unless you mean "murder" as in abortion, which is where you are wrong.)

Legalizing abortion is fair because there are teens that get pregnant and are not mature enough to raise a child. There are people that get raped and do not want that child. And sometimes, people can't afford to raise children or anything of the sort. Often, you can't know if you're pregnant until several weeks in, meaning that it is not necessarily a choice of the person to be pregnant, and nor is it the obligation of the person to keep the fetus in their body under any reasonable pretext.

Legalizing drugs? Some can stay outlawed, some can be regulated but legal. There are things that are worse than some drugs.

Also, the War on Drugs is a waste.

Both are opinions, based on things that happened in reality.

Facts are like "The Earth is round" or "Election fraud in 2020 did not exist". Those things can be proven by compelling evidence, and unless damning compelling evidence is surfaced, they are facts.

Then those teens shouldn't have gotten hitched.

Thank you for stating it, this is what I mean by in Politics no one is right and no one is wrong. They are both opinions.

[Caleonia]

Legalizing murder, robbery, shoplifting, and squatting is just legalizing crimes. We aren't gonna do that anytime soon. (Unless you mean "murder" as in abortion, which is where you are wrong.)

Legalizing abortion is fair because there are teens that get pregnant and are not mature enough to raise a child. There are people that get raped and do not want that child. And sometimes, people can't afford to raise children or anything of the sort. Often, you can't know if you're pregnant until several weeks in, meaning that it is not necessarily a choice of the person to be pregnant, and nor is it the obligation of the person to keep the fetus in their body under any reasonable pretext.

Legalizing drugs? Some can stay outlawed, some can be regulated but legal. There are things that are worse than some drugs.

Also, the War on Drugs is a waste.

Both are opinions, based on things that happened in reality.

Facts are like "The Earth is round" or "Election fraud in 2020 did not exist". Those things can be proven by compelling evidence, and unless damning compelling evidence is surfaced, they are facts.

Then those teens shouldn't have gotten hitched.

Accidents happen.

[Spirit of Hope]

It would achieve the government not being involved in marriages, which are deeply tied to religion. So yes, if you wanted to get married to a gerbil you could, if you wanted to be in a polygamous marriage you could, etc. A marriage would be defined by the parties involved without the government having to be involved and say what counts, or doesn't count, as a marriage.

So what is the difference with the current situation ? I can already declare I am married to a gerbil. That the government does not recognise that would not change between scenarios.

The government gives benefits to those it does considered married. So while you can claim you are married to the gerbil you get no legal benefits from that statement. Meanwhile a person in a legally recognized marriage does gain some advantages from their marriage.

Obviously a marriage to a gerbil is a silly example, but polygamous marriages is a more real example. Certain religions allow polygamous marriages, but most governments don't recognize them and members who wish to participate in one would loose out on the benefits of government recognized marriages.

[Daniel-Franklin]

Trump was corrupt and incompetent, though he wasn’t a fascist and I’m tired of people violating Godwin’s Law to imply that he was literally Hitler. He was a lot more like Ferdinand Marcos.

Godwin's Law is an informal observation of trends in online conversations. Comparing Trump to Hitler doesn't violate Godwin's Law. One violates Godwin's Law by not making comparisons to Hitler or the Nazis, in the same way that the laws of Newtonian physics would be violated by the Earth suddenly turning around and orbiting the Sun in the other direction.

He didn’t create the American Reich. Ergo, he wasn’t Hitler or even a Nazi. I thought that he was gonna be at first, but facts are stubborn things and he missed his chance to create a racist police state in 2017 when he dominated Congress. That’s when a Hitler would have struck.

[Flanderstan]

Then those teens shouldn't have gotten hitched.

"Getting hitched" means getting married.

Maybe they shouldn;t have gotten knocked up. Abstanance is the only way. If teens abstained, we wouldn't even need abortion.
Besides, abortion is a crime against humanity, and its not birth control (people use it as birth control). You can just give the baby up. We don't pump millions into child protective services and adoption agencies every year for fun.

[Comerciante]

These are both opinions.

Especially the second one.

Both are opinions, especially the second one, lol

Yes it's what happens when you invest yourself into a strawman that misses the entire point.

[Caleonia]

"Getting hitched" means getting married.

Maybe they shouldn;t have gotten knocked up. Abstanance is the only way. If teens abstained, we wouldn't even need abortion.
Besides, abortion is a crime against humanity, and its not birth control (people use it as birth control). You can just give the baby up. We don't pump millions into child protective services and adoption agencies every year for fun.

ever heard of a condom?

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

Both are opinions, especially the second one, lol

Yes it's what happens when you invest yourself into a strawman that misses the entire point.

lol, My English Not Very Good,

[Maricarland]

Trump was corrupt and incompetent, though he wasn’t a fascist and I’m tired of people violating Godwin’s Law to imply that he was literally Hitler. He was a lot more like Ferdinand Marcos.

Godwin literally amended his rule of thumb to be, when you are debating someone online the first one to call the other a fascist/nazi/Hitler automatically loses unless they are actually fascists/nazis. Godwin admitted that when he created this rule of thumb, he never imagined that actual neo-nazis would actually have a "legitimate" voice in political discourse.

Lets see if Trumpism meets the definition of fascism (https://medium.com/war-is-boring/yes-trump-is-a-fascist-heres-the-checklist-90c4cd577755):

While the definition of fascism is a little fuzzy, and sometimes people simplify it, a common tool to analyze fascism is a checklist of fascism's core traits as described by political researchers (Like Jason Stanley, who is considered a world expert on fascism and authoritarianism and argues that the U.S. is in what he describes as a legalistic phase of fascism).

Here is a checklist from Yale researchers https://www.pensito.com/2022/01/10/is-trump-a-fascist-based-on-this-yale-professors-10-point-fascist-checklist-he-is/:

1. The Mythic Past
2. Propaganda
3. Anti-intellectualism
4. Unreality
5. Hierarchy
6. Victimhood
7. Law and Order
8. Sexual Anxiety
9. Sodom and Gomorrah
10. Arebeit macht frei (“Work shall make you free”)

To learn more about the far-right, the alt-right, and fascism in generally I highly recommend the videos by Innuendo Studios (I suggest starting with this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agzNANfNlTs)

[Necroghastia]

"Getting hitched" means getting married.

Maybe they shouldn;t have gotten knocked up. Abstanance is the only way. If teens abstained, we wouldn't even need abortion.

Human nature does not work like that. Teens be horny. People in general be horny.

Besides, abortion is a crime against humanity,

No it's not.

and its not birth control (people use it as birth control).

No they don't.

You can just give the baby up.

That doesn't solve the problem of being pregnant in the first place.

[Comerciante]

Yes it's what happens when you invest yourself into a strawman that misses the entire point.

lol, My English Not Very Good,

Yes, we have seen you use that excuse a lot. We are painfully aware of it.

[Flanderstan]

If immigrants go through proper channels then we shall welcome them. But if they break the law to enter they will be returned.

Daily reminder that most "illegal immigrants" just have expired documents.

Terrorists could come through the border if it is open.

Well that went from 0 to 100.

Now regarding drugs, have you seen what drugs do? To people? To families? Its awful. If you saw it you wouldn't support it.

Conditions imprisonment only exacerbates.

Sex work should stay illegal because it is immoral and blasphemous. Its also explotative.

How is it immoral? Why should the law care about blasphemy?
A big reason it's exploitative is because of the illegal, underground nature it's been forced into. Can't regulate what's flat out illegal.

So, now I should have to pay for sex workers through taxes because its government regulalted, how did the 9/11 hijackers get onto the planes and into the US? Do you think they just spawned there? The DHS is absolutely nessessary. If you want to decriminilize drug possession, I kind of agree with that. We should spend more on the DEA and aid to the mexican Federales to stamp out DEALING not USING or Possession.

[Maricarland]

Agreed.

We should lift the ban on people freely entering and exiting our borders, the ban on most (if not all) drugs, the ban on consensual prostitution, etc...

I can agree with ending consensual prostitution but there needs to be border controls. You have to know who is entering the country.

We will have all the documentation needed (and I agree with having that information) when people are free to enter and exit our borders without significant burden through official checkpoints. Open borders does not automatically mean that nothing has documentation. Though I do think we should decriminalize, not legalize, the undocumented crossing of the border.

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

lol, My English Not Very Good,

Yes, we have seen you use that excuse a lot. We are painfully aware of it.

lol , many of you were the ones who came up with the saying and coined the saying, My English Not Very Good,

[Daniel-Franklin]

"Getting hitched" means getting married.

Maybe they shouldn;t have gotten knocked up. Abstanance is the only way. If teens abstained, we wouldn't even need abortion.
Besides, abortion is a crime against humanity, and its not birth control (people use it as birth control). You can just give the baby up. We don't pump millions into child protective services and adoption agencies every year for fun.[/quote

Asking a primate at their most hormonal phase of development to abstain from sexual intercourse is just silly, unnatural, and impractical We’re just apes. We do ape stuff. Such as rutting.

And abortion terminates a pre-sentient lifeform, not a person. Ergo, it’s not murder.

[Vassenor]

Pray tell who is in favor of legalizing those.

On the shoplifting front, Gavin Newsom.

If there are no police to keep people from killing, robbing, rape, and white collar crime, Then people will take advantage of it.

Also without police, whose gonna enforce anti discrimination laws that leftists love so much.

Which is why serious crime went down when the NYPD went on strike.