American Politics IX: Winter is Coming

[Bombadil]

My friend is renewing her green card, it's a goddamn mess of hoops and hurdles - it's not even getting a green card, it's renewing one so they clearly have all the information but she has to fill all this paperwork again, including the told 'Are you coming to the US to commit terrorist acts?' and 'Are you a communist?'. She has to go through an interview as well.

I mean..

When and where did you get married?
Were you previously married?
Besides your current marriage, how many other times have you been married?
What are the names of your previous spouses?
When did your marriage to each previous spouse end?

What the fuck does this have to do with anyone? Beyond that she has to return to the US to complete the application. Since HK banned flights to and from the US due to the pandemic it's caused no end of re-booking.

I can renew my passport with a single document and two photos, and I can do it through a consulate.

Maybe if US immigration wasn't so byzantine there'd be less illegal immigration.

[Maricarland]

Making housing a human right, through universal public housing, where anyone who wants to is entitled to live in public housing regardless of income, wealth, work history, housing history, pet ownership, criminal history, household size, ability or willingness to work, or anything else. I would prefer this to be rent-free, but it is likely that politicians will demand a rent, which we can set as a percentage of taxable household income, say 20%, to ensure it is affordable (if you have a taxable income of $0, you pay $0; if you have a taxable income of $1,000, you pay $200; if you have a taxable income of $1 million, you pay $200,000). We use community development corporations to build up the public housing stock in localities where the supply is low.

Let's start with the problems this might cause.

Your zoning for your new government housing gets tied up in tons of legal Red Tape because no one wants Public Housing in their Backyard.
The middle class, the upper class, and even the lower middle class complain that if you're giving them free houses you should pay for their houses as well.
Oh and the announcement that the government is going to start building homes causes a second housing collapse to hit as the artificial scarcity of homes are threatened causing the billions of dollars invested in the housing market to go up in smoke causing another economic crash.

Just because we have some NIMBYs as an obstacle to implementing universal public housing, does not mean Universal Public Housing is not a good idea.

The "middle" class and "upper" class are free to also move into public housing if they want, it is universal. However, I would personally also add a vacant housing tax so high that people with excess housing that they are not using will be incentivized to either rent it out at whatever price the people can afford it or to sell it at whatever price people can afford it, even if it is a financial loss, just to avoid the vacant housing tax. Then of course if there is a rent on the universal public housing (I would prefer it be rent-free though), then the wealthy will be paying a higher rent because they have more money, even if the rent is a flat percentage.

Currently the price of housing is being pushed higher because there are desperate people who are suffering. An asset that derives its value from the suffering of others should be driven down until that suffering is alleviated. If we had a comprehensive social safety net to protect people during an economic crash, along with public banking and worker power and cooperatives to bounce back from an economic crash, I think that a short term economic crash is worth the end of involuntary homelessness in America especially since people won't be suffering that much during the economic crash because the social safety net is providing them homes and food and medicine and so on...

Then for poverty in general, we expand the social safety net and give much more power to workers and labor, and maybe do some redistribution.

I'd love this but let's face it, not happening in this current political climate.

I'm glad we are on the same page here. Though I still want to fight for the social safety net, labor, and redistribution, because if we just say it is not going to happen right now, and we keep saying that, then it will never happen ever.

[The Jamesian Republic]

I think now is a good time to talk about housing in America. Currently it is in crisis. So I have a few ideas on how to deal with it:
1. A trust fund to invest into communities.
2. Abolish red lines.
3. Expand affordable public housing
4. Protect tenants from being evicted.
5. Caps on raising rent.

I like all these ideas and much more.

Universal Public Housing though I think is the absolute foundation to ending homelessness and should be a part of our social safety net. I laid out 12 things I think the U.S. needs for our social safety net a few pages back.

I saw it. I was figuring these can set the stones for Universal Public Housing. However I do agree with this.

[New haven america]

1. There was actually.

1. There was no system for real Social Welfare in the US in the 1880s.

2. Actually, the US had the best social systems/welfare/safety nets in the world in the 1950's

2. 1950 is not 1880, and yes the US did have a great safety net system after the New Deal era programs put them in place.... then they started to slowly get gutted. But that happened quite some time after the 1880s and required the victories of the progressive era and of course the Great Depression.

3. Considering the fact that most people don't know about them and that the US still had open borders for the 30 years after their heyday, I can't see how you can look at those as a successful case.

3. Part of the reason immigration in the US is so hard is because of one of the most successful cases of anti-immigrant rhetoric during the Early United States, where the Federalists attempted to Weaken the Democratic Republican party with the Alien and Sedition acts.

4. Also, this goes to show how little you know about immigration in the US, most new immigrants aren't given the benefits of citizens. In a lot of cases immigrants aren't allowed to have federal benefits for at least 5 years after moving in.

4. I don't remember anywhere where I said that immigrants were freely handed citizenship right off the boat, in fact part of the issues in the US with immigrants in the early US was a side effect of the above acts was that the Federalists actually artificially raised the time to become a citizen because they didn't like the politics of who were immigrating to the US.

1. It's telling that you see "Social systems" and automatically jump to welfare.
2. Did you not say: "...heck there were no US systems even after 1880."?

Were the 50's after the 1880's? Yes! So the US had social systems even after 1880.

3. No, the reason why it's so hard is because the developed nations have decided to take a draconian view on immigration due to the founding idea of the nation state being "1 nation for 1 people". Canada, Australia, NZ, Japan, Singapore, most of Europe, etc... are all just as bad if not worse than the US when it comes to immigration, including from other developed nations.

This is because of nationalism.

4. You missed the point.

[New haven america]

My friend is renewing her green card, it's a goddamn mess of hoops and hurdles - it's not even getting a green card, it's renewing one so they clearly have all the information but she has to fill all this paperwork again, including the told 'Are you coming to the US to commit terrorist acts?' and 'Are you a communist?'. She has to go through an interview as well.

I mean..

When and where did you get married?
Were you previously married?
Besides your current marriage, how many other times have you been married?
What are the names of your previous spouses?
When did your marriage to each previous spouse end?

What the fuck does this have to do with anyone? Beyond that she has to return to the US to complete the application. Since HK banned flights to and from the US due to the pandemic it's caused no end of re-booking.

I can renew my passport with a single document and two photos, and I can do it through a consulate.

Maybe if US immigration wasn't so byzantine there'd be less illegal immigration.

Nah, the US is one of the easier developed countries to get into.

You should try looking up what it takes to get into Australia or Canada or The UK. Even if you're already from another developed nation.

[Maricarland]

My friend is renewing her green card, it's a goddamn mess of hoops and hurdles - it's not even getting a green card, it's renewing one so they clearly have all the information but she has to fill all this paperwork again, including the told 'Are you coming to the US to commit terrorist acts?' and 'Are you a communist?'. She has to go through an interview as well.

I mean..

When and where did you get married?
Were you previously married?
Besides your current marriage, how many other times have you been married?
What are the names of your previous spouses?
When did your marriage to each previous spouse end?

What the fuck does this have to do with anyone? Beyond that she has to return to the US to complete the application. Since HK banned flights to and from the US due to the pandemic it's caused no end of re-booking.

I can renew my passport with a single document and two photos, and I can do it through a consulate.

Maybe if US immigration wasn't so byzantine there'd be less illegal immigration.

Nah, the US is one of the easier developed countries to get into.

You should try looking up what it takes to get into Australia or Canada. Even if you're already from another developed nation.

I have, many times, especially when Trump got elected in 2016. I am convinced it would be virtually impossible for me to legally immigrate to most countries in the world if I wanted to escape the United States.

[New haven america]

Nah, the US is one of the easier developed countries to get into.

You should try looking up what it takes to get into Australia or Canada. Even if you're already from another developed nation.

I have, many times, especially when Trump got elected in 2016. I am convinced it would be virtually impossible for me to legally immigrate to most countries in the world if I wanted to escape the United States.

Yeah, out of the 330,000,000 Americans only ~3-5 million actually meet the base standards of all developed nations to actually immigrate to said developed nations.

That's not taking into account other standards that are added on, those are just the basics. Like Canada's point system, which tallies how useful you'd be to the country. You can meet all the requirements to move there but if you score even 1 point below the required points on their usefulness chart then you're out and they don't give a fuck.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Nah, the US is one of the easier developed countries to get into.

You should try looking up what it takes to get into Australia or Canada. Even if you're already from another developed nation.

I have, many times, especially when Trump got elected in 2016. I am convinced it would be virtually impossible for me to legally immigrate to most countries in the world if I wanted to escape the United States.

They'd probably also view you as a burden. Not saying it's right to view you that way, but unfortunately it's true. Hell, I would have a problem moving to Canada currently, as I am not currently a skilled worker, and I doubt other western countries would be any easier.

It's not like Americans can claim refugee status or anything like that.

[New haven america]

I have, many times, especially when Trump got elected in 2016. I am convinced it would be virtually impossible for me to legally immigrate to most countries in the world if I wanted to escape the United States.

They'd probably also view you as a burden. Not saying it's right to view you that way, but unfortunately it's true. Hell, I would have a problem moving to Canada currently, as I am not currently a skilled worker, and I doubt other western countries would be any easier.

It's not like Americans can claim refugee status or anything like that.

Canada's actually dealing with a massive labor shortage. They have more jobs than they do people to work those jobs.

There are a lot of problems causing this. The 1st is the fact that Canadians aren't reproducing enough to fill those jobs, 2nd is the ludicrous cost of living, 3rd the aforementioned standards and point systems in place that restrict immigration as much as possible, and 4th, the left-wing nationalism Canada has going on where the absolute last group of people they want in the nation are Americans out of fear of American assimilation or bringing in right wing social and economic policies. (Even though most Americans who want to move to Canada are left-wing and the fact that Canada's basically owned by America already, but whatever)

[The Lone Alliance]

Just because we have some NIMBYs as an obstacle to implementing universal public housing, does not mean Universal Public Housing is not a good idea.

I wouldn't say it's a bad idea but there will be strong opposition every step of the way. Hence my point, to be honest though NIMBY is the least of the problems.

The "middle" class and "upper" class are free to also move into public housing if they want, it is universal. However, I would personally also add a vacant housing tax so high that people with excess housing that they are not using will be incentivized to either rent it out at whatever price the people can afford it or to sell it at whatever price people can afford it, even if it is a financial loss, just to avoid the vacant housing tax. Then of course if there is a rent on the universal public housing (I would prefer it be rent-free though), then the wealthy will be paying a higher rent because they have more money, even if the rent is a flat percentage.

And Lobbying will act to prevent this from happening, you'll be fighting homeowners, banks, and countless other special interests, who'll use the issues brought about this to vote you out and destroy your policy. Not that the idea itself doesn't have some merit but politically it's still facing an uphill battle.

Currently the price of housing is being pushed higher because there are desperate people who are suffering. An asset that derives its value from the suffering of others should be driven down until that suffering is alleviated. If we had a comprehensive social safety net to protect people during an economic crash, along with public banking and worker power and cooperatives to bounce back from an economic crash, I think that a short term economic crash is worth the end of involuntary homelessness in America especially since people won't be suffering that much during the economic crash because the social safety net is providing them homes and food and medicine and so on...

Well there are some elements of homelessness that can't be solved simply by job restructuring and more fair economic policies, such as the drug addicted or the severely mentally ill, a proper solution for them would be to have some sort of government assisted care home for those people, but that risks falling back into becoming possibly abusive Asylums, Still I don't think that's possibly outside the scope of fixing, maybe for the people who are too far gone to take care of themselves they would need something like an assisted group home, like a large scale public halfway house system for the mentally ill and the hopelessly drug addicted.

Might even be easier to sell to people as well, many cities with a homeless problem would likely welcome such a thing if it meant they could feel safer without feeling like they're being harmful. I would actually suggest doing this idea first before moving on to full scale public housing, then use the momentum of the possible success and getting homes for the literal worst off of of society as a means for pushing for upwards from there.

But again finding the political will will be hard.

Another possible angle that might work is that with the large number of homeless Veterans in the country a large public works project for Veterans might be an easier sell because ideology wise most people want to be seen "Supporting the Troops".

So I'd move from:
Public Housing for Homeless Veterans. (Easier win)
Public Housing for the Homeless Mentally Ill. (Harder win but use your above win as proof of concept)
Public Housing for the Poor in General (Ride your momentum of the first two to get the last delivered)

And if you do it this way you can keep it away from becoming about a racial thing.

I'm glad we are on the same page here. Though I still want to fight for the social safety net, labor, and redistribution, because if we just say it is not going to happen right now, and we keep saying that, then it will never happen ever.

Oh I agree your ideas are nice, I just don't see them as very realistic. I'm not a complete cynic who believes that it'll never happen but it's clear right now in current conditions it's not happening. The United States still has too many problems and divisions to do things that would actually help to that level, maybe soon.

And that's ultimately the same reason I'm against your immigration policy, my opposition to open borders is less on "Fuck you I got mine" and more "The House is reaching the point where it's going to get condemned, the tenants are screaming at each other every night, the bills are piling up, so inviting all the city's homeless might be a feel good action, but I can't see it ending well."

Maybe if you fixed the house up, calmed the Tenants down, resolved some issues, yeah that'd be a place where it'd be great to welcome people too. But not like this.

[Bear Stearns]

I think now is a good time to talk about housing in America. Currently it is in crisis. So I have a few ideas on how to deal with it:
1. A trust fund to invest into communities.
2. Abolish red lines.
3. Expand affordable public housing
4. Protect tenants from being evicted.
5. Caps on raising rent.

Give interest-free mortgages to young families. Outlaw foreign ownership of residential property. Bring back the homestead acts and legalize squatting.

[Rusozak]

Wait, what?

Original version here..

I have no words... To have thought nothing could ever have topped

[Alcala-Cordel]

Not everyone blindly worships political parties.

Democrats are not Political Saints. I have explained in details many times why I, me and us strongly support President Trump, Ron DeSantis and President Ronald Reagan. To me and us they are the Greatest American Presidents ever of the USA and the Greatest Governor ever of the USA. Because we strongly agree with most of their economic, political and social views on the Issues, with Pride and Honor. GMS with Pride and Honor.

Both parties are made up of warmongering corporate puppets, but no matter what you believe it's never a good thing to be in complete agreement with anyone. At least the people who stan celebrities and minecraft youtubers aren't invested in something that actually matters.

[-Astoria-]

Original version here..

I have no words... To have thought nothing could ever have topped

I'm still confused by what the heck he meant.

[Flanderstan]

I think public housing should be available, but only for those who make under a certain amoint of money and don't have insurance or medicaid. They should also be alble to pass a drug test. Public housing should be state funded, not federally funded, and there will be no rent raises and evictions only in extreme situations. We should also expand Medicaid to everyone who does not have insurance.

[Caleonia]

A question for the Democrats here: if FDR was such a great president, why did he win 98% of the vote in segregationist South Carolina?

Wait so if racists like a President that means he is bad?

My granddad will tell you simply because he was a leader. When you listened to him on the radio; you felt things would get better. The man spoke well.

Can you imagine Trump giving the Pearl Harbor speech?

I would go support Japan in that instance. I’d rather get persecuted and killed.
Just hearing that thought makes me queasy.

[HISPIDA]

Opinion: The needle has shifted: Trump could be charged

[Caleonia]

I have no words... To have thought nothing could ever have topped

I'm still confused by what the heck he meant.

I think it means sex and violence aren’t portrayed correctly

[The Jamesian Republic]

Opinion: The needle has shifted: Trump could be charged

I have one better: Trump should be fired from a canon into the sun.

[Caleonia]

Opinion: The needle has shifted: Trump could be charged

I have one better: Trump should be fired from a canon into the sun.

Which canon?

[The Jamesian Republic]

I have one better: Trump should be fired from a canon into the sun.

Which canon?

The canon we use to throw people into the sun.

It’s supposed to be a joke from Futurama.

[Ifreann]

Eco-fascism is not the way.

It’s not eco-fascism, the USSR didn’t have the western style system of multi party democracy either. Are they fascist? It’s quite telling that you’d rather keep the failure that is democracy than to move forward and fix the climate mess while lifting the workers out of their prisons.

That’s not fascism

You're not lifting anyone out of prisons by taking away their control over the government they live under. You're just redecorating the prison. Dictators are enemies of the people, even if they style themselves in Soviet aesthetics and maintain a sham democracy.

---

Why do we have "campaign promises" anyway. Completely useless phenomenon.

What I want to know is why we have NSG posters making campaign promises to other NSG posters.

---

Trumpism is proto-fascism. Ever heard of ICE?

You do know ICE existed before Trump and did a lot of bad things even before Trump was President right?

If ICE is Fascism, then Obama and Bush were also Proto-Fascist.

They contributed in paving the way for Trump, yes.

And not supporting illegal immigration isn't really an aspect of Fascism, specifically because under Fascism people try to leave the country to get away from the Fascism, they don't try to illegally sneak into the country.

Opposition to illegal immigration can be an element of fascism when that opposition is based in creating some "other", some untermensch, which is said to be destroying the nation by their presence. If Trump had built his wall and halted all immigration across America's southern border, what then? Rounding up all the "Mexicans"(of whom many are not from Mexico) already in America, of course. And don't forget that he also wanted to shut down all Muslim immigration into the United States. So they'd be on the chopping block as well. The nation would be purged according to ethnicity and religion.

Now if ICE starts turning their Refugee Overflow camps to "Work Camps" that'd be pretty Fascist.

America already uses prisoners as a labour force.

[The Jamesian Republic]

It’s not eco-fascism, the USSR didn’t have the western style system of multi party democracy either. Are they fascist? It’s quite telling that you’d rather keep the failure that is democracy than to move forward and fix the climate mess while lifting the workers out of their prisons.

That’s not fascism

You're not lifting anyone out of prisons by taking away their control over the government they live under. You're just redecorating the prison. Dictators are enemies of the people, even if they style themselves in Soviet aesthetics and maintain a sham democracy.

---

Why do we have "campaign promises" anyway. Completely useless phenomenon.

What I want to know is why we have NSG posters making campaign promises to other NSG posters.

---

You do know ICE existed before Trump and did a lot of bad things even before Trump was President right?

If ICE is Fascism, then Obama and Bush were also Proto-Fascist.

They contributed in paving the way for Trump, yes.

And not supporting illegal immigration isn't really an aspect of Fascism, specifically because under Fascism people try to leave the country to get away from the Fascism, they don't try to illegally sneak into the country.

Opposition to illegal immigration can be an element of fascism when that opposition is based in creating some "other", some untermensch, which is said to be destroying the nation by their presence. If Trump had built his wall and halted all immigration across America's southern border, what then? Rounding up all the "Mexicans"(of whom many are not from Mexico) already in America, of course. And don't forget that he also wanted to shut down all Muslim immigration into the United States. So they'd be on the chopping block as well. The nation would be purged according to ethnicity and religion.

Now if ICE starts turning their Refugee Overflow camps to "Work Camps" that'd be pretty Fascist.

America already uses prisoners as a labour force.

1. Exactly preach.
2. It’s fun to make campaign promises

[Galloism]

More people being subject to the Byzantine US tax code is generally good for me, and adding capital controls means making it more Byzantine, which is also good for me.

Which is why we should simplify the tax code to make things worse for you

No.

[Just-An-Illusion]

Ice is doing its job. These immigrants broke the law, what do they expect? Taxpayer money? Lol.... no.

ICE should be abolished. Borders should be opened.

Also we should abolish a bunch of other things while we are at it, just a short-list off the top of my head: FBI, DoHS, CIA, NSA, DEA, Police, Prison, Marriage, Billionaires, Landlords, and so on...

Abolish marriage? What about LGBT marriages? Aren't we literally fighting to protect that right?