American Politics IX: Winter is Coming

[Kowani]

"the narrative can never fail, it can only be failed"
what are we even looking at here, more projects in wv?
what's the magic threshold for a "yes"

Not sure I follow your reasoning. The magic threshold is when Manchin says yes. Whether it's in reach or not depends on how it's sold.

do you see how this is a horrible negotiating tactic

manchin pulled out when biden said "we're making progress with manchin" i don't think "arm-twisting" would have done anything of value

I don't think Biden is a competent negotiator.

he's not!
but that's also immaterial!

yeah, for the republicans

Ultimately that hurts Manchin more. There's always potential for Democrats to get someone else in, or win seats in other states. Manchin is one guy with one job he presumably doesn't want to lose.

yes, i'm sure that'll come in handy the next time we have a federal trifecta in
uh
2032

that doesn't follow
firstly because biden doesn't pick and choose who the doj prosecutes

You don't think Merrick Garland would prosecute her after Biden recommends it, given how flagrantly she violated the law?

lmao merrick garland was the worst cabinet pick by far

but also because there's no guarantee that would get manchin on board anyway

Then justice is served. Win-win.

if that's your aim, great, but it's not a good negotiating strategy!

[Corrian]

I have an idea.

Let's burn Manchin's yacht.

Bro how is it supposed to burn when it is covered by water

Boats catch fire all the time yo.

[Kowani]

Joe Manchin, to the right of coal workers

America’s biggest coal mining union is calling on West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin to reconsider his opposition to President Joe Biden’s $2 trillion social and climate spending bill.

The legislation includes several provisions that would aid coal workers, including extension of a fee that helps fund benefits for workers suffering from black lung and tax incentives that would encourage manufactures to build facilities in coal fields and to employ out-of-work miners, said United Mine Workers of America International President Cecil Roberts in a statement. For the first time, the bill would also penalize employers that deny workers their rights to form a union, Roberts said. “We urge Senator Manchin to revisit his opposition to this legislation and work with his colleagues to pass something that will help keep coal miners working, and have a meaningful impact on our members, their families, and their communities,” Roberts said.

[The Jamesian Republic]

Joe Manchin, to the right of coal workers

America’s biggest coal mining union is calling on West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin to reconsider his opposition to President Joe Biden’s $2 trillion social and climate spending bill.

The legislation includes several provisions that would aid coal workers, including extension of a fee that helps fund benefits for workers suffering from black lung and tax incentives that would encourage manufactures to build facilities in coal fields and to employ out-of-work miners, said United Mine Workers of America International President Cecil Roberts in a statement. For the first time, the bill would also penalize employers that deny workers their rights to form a union, Roberts said. “We urge Senator Manchin to revisit his opposition to this legislation and work with his colleagues to pass something that will help keep coal miners working, and have a meaningful impact on our members, their families, and their communities,” Roberts said.

That’s it! This is the key.

[Hispida]

Joe Manchin, to the right of coal workers

America’s biggest coal mining union is calling on West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin to reconsider his opposition to President Joe Biden’s $2 trillion social and climate spending bill.

The legislation includes several provisions that would aid coal workers, including extension of a fee that helps fund benefits for workers suffering from black lung and tax incentives that would encourage manufactures to build facilities in coal fields and to employ out-of-work miners, said United Mine Workers of America International President Cecil Roberts in a statement. For the first time, the bill would also penalize employers that deny workers their rights to form a union, Roberts said. “We urge Senator Manchin to revisit his opposition to this legislation and work with his colleagues to pass something that will help keep coal miners working, and have a meaningful impact on our members, their families, and their communities,” Roberts said.

come on, baby...

[Maricarland]

I have an idea.

Let's burn Manchin's yacht.

I'm too violence averse and maybe cowardly for that. But so long as no human beings or animals get hurt, I fully support others burning down his yacht.

[Umeria]

You don't think Merrick Garland would prosecute her after Biden recommends it, given how flagrantly she violated the law?

lmao merrick garland was the worst cabinet pick by far

But he still has to do his job.

Then justice is served. Win-win.

if that's your aim, great, but it's not a good negotiating strategy!

Being willing to follow through on your threats is absolutely a good negotiating strategy.

[Maricarland]

I have an idea.

Let's burn Manchin's yacht.

Bro how is it supposed to burn when it is covered by water

The interior of the ship will burn as well as any parts of the ship that are above water. Eventually some of the boards holding the ship together will be burned away and there will be holes in the hull which will flood and sink the rest of the ship that wasn't destroyed by the flames.

[Aggicificicerous]

do you see how this is a horrible negotiating tactic

I still don't fully understand your question. There is no 'magic threshold for a yes'.

he's not!
but that's also immaterial!

I'd say it's pretty darn material.

yes, i'm sure that'll come in handy the next time we have a federal trifecta in
uh
2032

Because the current strategy is working out so well, right?

[Maricarland]

I want Maryland to place a ban on doing business with any business that Manchin owns or has stock in. Though, I am not sure if that is constitutional, I think it might violate the 1st amendments right to assembly.

[The Jamesian Republic]

I want Maryland to place a ban on doing business with any business that Manchin owns or has stock in. Though, I am not sure if that is constitutional, I think it might violate the 1st amendments right to assembly.

It most likely does.

[San Lumen]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/20/politics/first-puppy-bidens-white-house/index.html

The Biden’s have a new German Shepherd puppy. His name is Commander.

anyone want to do an over–under on it?

What does that mean?

[Neuer California]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/20/politics/first-puppy-bidens-white-house/index.html

The Biden’s have a new German Shepherd puppy. His name is Commander.

anyone want to do an over–under on it?

Quoting wrong post?

[Senkaku]

Is it? He was fine letting Pelosi try to separate the bills until the progressives heaped the pressure on; then he convinced them (somehow— despite a lack of obvious carrots or sticks, not unlike the Manchin case) to go along with it. He won’t do shit about student loans, his people are ridiculing the idea of providing free covid testing— I don’t think it’s “pure conspiracism” at all to suggest the man is not as committed to the “Biden agenda” as he’d like people to believe. This whole thing feels very much like an exercise in setting someone else up to take the fall for a failure the White House saw coming a mile away and wasn't too concerned about anyways.

yes, this is more easily explained by biden being Old and having punitive instincts on responsibility than it all being kabuki and setting up manchin as the fall guy for his agenda's failures
kind of discounting the impact of 40+ years of dem party ideology being pumped into his head

He can be ideological and still realize that someone has to take the blame for all the commitments he made in the primary being abandoned

Well, it might be worth a shot, since apparently literally nothing else will work? Indulging the proud tradition of abusing the security services to investigate political rivals seems like a risky but fruitful avenue too— I mean the worst case is that it doesn’t work, in which case not much has really changed, has it?

i mean no the worst-case scenario is biden gets caught doing it and i hope i don't need to tell you that would be much worse than the status quo

Honestly I don’t really see it as that much worse, like he’s already underwater and facing rabid right-wing attacks and has alienated a huge chunk of his base and may be about to drive democracy off a cliff in one to three years; what is there to lose here

Him not taking actions that he could have taken at almost any point doesn’t suggest to me that he’s holding off because of “other considerations,” it suggests he doesn’t actually want to take them.

why do you say "holding off" like there's a deadline at which point they stop applying lmao

The deadline would be the end of his term, at which point he will no longer be able to do them…

politicians care about process too!

I don’t even know what you mean by this

What makes more sense: that he hasn’t cancelled student debt because he’s spent most of his career fighting to make sure that never happens, or that he’s just holding off on it despite massive & damaging public pressure because he has some other doubleplus-secret political iron in the fire and can’t take the time to instantly do something enormously popular?

this...isn't relevant?
like the question of why he hasn't done it is but whether he has or not isn't

We both know why he hasn’t done it! It’s the same reason he’s let BBB get killed and aided its killer every step of the way: it’s because he doesn’t want to do most of the things he promised to do.

No, they’re people trying to keep their jobs, act on their beliefs, and feather their nests, just like everyone else. Suggesting he’s not committed to the full policy slate he promised in the primary is pretty fucking far from suggesting he’s a “Sunday morning cartoon villain.”

i mean yeah there's a lot of stuff that he never even tried to do but that's a large jump from "biden is secretly setting manchin up to take the fall"
you're giving him a level of machivellian competence that he hasn't really shown anywhere

It’s not “Machiavellian competence” to line up a senator to take most of the blame for the failure when you wriggle out of promises you never meant to keep, it’s just common political sense. I don’t like Biden, but while I think he and his advisers are extremely out of touch, I don’t think they’re complete idiots, at least on a tactical level. A tight Senate with conservative Democrats gave them a whole spectrum of rotating villains; Sinema put herself in the running for a bit for no apparent reason but now that he’s pulled the trigger it looks like they can firmly settle on Manchin.

[Corrian]

I have an idea.

Let's burn Manchin's yacht.

I'm too violence averse and maybe cowardly for that. But so long as no human beings or animals get hurt, I fully support others burning down his yacht.

I mean sometimes when all other options are exhausted, and America has been REAL close to that for years, sometimes drastic measures have to be taken.

[Hispida]

part of me wonders how the US is gonna react to the incoming government in chile. chile is the world's second largest lithium provider after australia, over double that of the PRC. it also forms part of the lithium triangle with argentina and bolivia.

[Corrian]

part of me wonders how the US is gonna react to the incoming government in chile. chile is the world's second largest lithium provider after australia, over double that of the PRC. it also forms part of the lithium triangle with argentina and bolivia.

Well the Pinochet-admiring guy ended up losing in a landslide, so.

[Hispida]

part of me wonders how the US is gonna react to the incoming government in chile. chile is the world's second largest lithium provider after australia, over double that of the PRC. it also forms part of the lithium triangle with argentina and bolivia.

Well the Pinochet-admiring guy ended up losing in a landslide, so.

my point exactly. chile and the US have been close for a long time -- even after pinochet was overthrown -- and part of me wonders if the incoming government is going to cancel things like the CUSFTA.

[Galloism]

Well the Pinochet-admiring guy ended up losing in a landslide, so.

my point exactly. chile and the US have been close for a long time -- even after pinochet was overthrown -- and part of me wonders if the incoming government is going to cancel things like the CUSFTA.

You thinking they want some Freedom (tm)?

[The Jamesian Republic]

my point exactly. chile and the US have been close for a long time -- even after pinochet was overthrown -- and part of me wonders if the incoming government is going to cancel things like the CUSFTA.

You thinking they want some Freedom (tm)?

Our nation needs some freedom but not like that.

[Hispida]

my point exactly. chile and the US have been close for a long time -- even after pinochet was overthrown -- and part of me wonders if the incoming government is going to cancel things like the CUSFTA.

You thinking they want some Freedom (tm)?

i don't think the US would go that far. not in this day and age where everything they're doing is starting to become suspect to more and more scrutiny. i don't find it out of the realm of possibility that the US could try some more under-the-table measures against chile, though.

[Lady Victory]

I'm too violence averse and maybe cowardly for that. But so long as no human beings or animals get hurt, I fully support others burning down his yacht.

I mean sometimes when all other options are exhausted, and America has been REAL close to that for years, sometimes drastic measures have to be taken.

You're at least on the right train of thought, though you have some catching up to do.

[Galloism]

You thinking they want some Freedom (tm)?

i don't think the US would go that far. not in this day and age where everything they're doing is starting to become suspect to more and more scrutiny. i don't find it out of the realm of possibility that the US could try some more under-the-table measures against chile, though.

Underhanded tactics from the US in a South American country?

Why I never.

[Senkaku]

part of me wonders how the US is gonna react to the incoming government in chile. chile is the world's second largest lithium provider after australia, over double that of the PRC. it also forms part of the lithium triangle with argentina and bolivia.

[The Jamesian Republic]

i don't think the US would go that far. not in this day and age where everything they're doing is starting to become suspect to more and more scrutiny. i don't find it out of the realm of possibility that the US could try some more under-the-table measures against chile, though.

Underhanded tactics from the US in a South American country?

Why I never.

Or I don’t know just let them be. I mean if Chile as it was under Pinochet but leftist then maybe. But until then leave them alone. Also this nation should have done something during the Pinochet era.