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American Politics IX: Winter is Coming

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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It has been one year since Joe Biden assumed the presidency. How would you rate his performance?

Excellent: he has positively exceeded expectations and I am thrilled with his service to the people
5
3%
Good: he has met expectations and I am generally satisfied with his service to the people
12
7%
Decent: he has met some expectations though I could be happier with his service to the people
51
30%
Bad: he has yet to meet expectations and I am generally unsatisfied with his service to the people
36
21%
Abysmal: he has negatively exceeded expectations and I believe he may be unfit to serve the people
65
38%
 
Total votes : 169

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The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55601
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:12 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Kowani wrote:Manchin’s other problem with BBB: He doesn’t trust poor people

After months of haggling with President Joe Biden and other Democrats, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) dashed his party’s hopes on Sunday by announcing he wouldn’t vote for the Build Back Better legislation.
Publicly, his biggest gripes are about the cost of the bill. But privately, Manchin has told his colleagues that he essentially doesn’t trust low-income people to spend government money wisely.

In recent months, Manchin has told several of his fellow Democrats that he thought parents would waste monthly child tax credit payments on drugs instead of providing for their children, according to two sources familiar with the senator’s comments.
Continuing the child tax credit for another year is a core part of the Build Back Better legislation that Democrats had hoped to pass by the end of the year. The policy has already cut child poverty by nearly 30%.
Manchin’s private comments shocked several senators, who saw it as an unfair assault on his own constituents and those struggling to raise children in poverty.
Manchin has also told colleagues he believes that Americans would fraudulently use the proposed paid sick leave policy, specifically saying people would feign being sick and go on hunting trips, a source familiar with his comments told HuffPost.
Manchin’s office declined to comment for this story.
In a statement on Sunday, he said he opposed the Build Back Better agenda largely because of its cost.

What in the let them eat cake…fuck this dude.


Indeed. Fuck this dude. Strip him of all responsibilities and relegate him to a “no” vote. He is doing it anyway.
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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81250
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:12 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/20/politics ... index.html

The Biden’s have a new German Shepherd puppy. His name is Commander.

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25685
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:13 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:How wrong would they be, really?

I mean, at least partially? I’ve been wondering for months what Pelosi and the White House told the progressive caucus to get them on board with separating the bills— whether it was a threat, an incentive, some sort of deal, or them just being unfathomably gullible, I think they’re at least somewhat to blame for throwing away the only deterrent they had based on empty promises. Yeah, maybe it would’ve just ended with him blowing both bills up, but we can’t actually know that, and given how hard he seemed to be wriggling to try and separate them, I don’t think we can definitively say he would’ve been willing to tank them both if they’d remained paired.
agreed honey. send bees

User avatar
Hemakral
Diplomat
 
Posts: 901
Founded: Nov 02, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Hemakral » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:18 pm

San Lumen wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/20/politics/first-puppy-bidens-white-house/index.html

The Biden’s have a new German Shepherd puppy. His name is Commander.


Hehe, cute doggie! :p
._.

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25685
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:20 pm

Hemakral wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/20/politics/first-puppy-bidens-white-house/index.html

The Biden’s have a new German Shepherd puppy. His name is Commander.


Hehe, cute doggie! :p

maybe I should just let the hyperreal current take me away at this point

that is a very cute dog
agreed honey. send bees

User avatar
Punished UMN
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5948
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:23 pm

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
Kowani wrote:This is neither strategically feasible, politically wise, or even slightly realistic

BBB is going nowhere and it’s wasting time.
Republicans want inflation and the border crisis solved and if that can be done then they might be more willing to vote.
Perhaps the executive order one is too unrealistic but the others could be realistic.

The Republicans absolutely do not want inflation and a border crisis solved, what the fuck else will they run on?
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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:35 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Kowani wrote:this is pure conspiracism, sen

Is it? He was fine letting Pelosi try to separate the bills until the progressives heaped the pressure on; then he convinced them (somehow— despite a lack of obvious carrots or sticks, not unlike the Manchin case) to go along with it. He won’t do shit about student loans, his people are ridiculing the idea of providing free covid testing— I don’t think it’s “pure conspiracism” at all to suggest the man is not as committed to the “Biden agenda” as he’d like people to believe. This whole thing feels very much like an exercise in setting someone else up to take the fall for a failure the White House saw coming a mile away and wasn't too concerned about anyways.
yes, this is more easily explained by biden being Old and having punitive instincts on responsibility than it all being kabuki and setting up manchin as the fall guy for his agenda's failures
kind of discounting the impact of 40+ years of dem party ideology being pumped into his head
biden is unwilling to use every method at his disposal by punishing wv because...manchin hasn't given much indication that he actually cares about west virginians-and "biden tanks wv project proposal because manchin stood up to him" is not really a punishment for manchin, it's a campaign ad
this is not a very hard calculus!

Well, it might be worth a shot, since apparently literally nothing else will work? Indulging the proud tradition of abusing the security services to investigate political rivals seems like a risky but fruitful avenue too— I mean the worst case is that it doesn’t work, in which case not much has really changed, has it?
i mean no the worst-case scenario is biden gets caught doing it and i hope i don't need to tell you that would be much worse than the status quo
biden has tons of things he could do without the senate getting involved!
but him not taking those actions means he has other considerations that he considers more important-wrongly imo, but they're still there

Him not taking actions that he could have taken at almost any point doesn’t suggest to me that he’s holding off because of “other considerations,” it suggests he doesn’t actually want to take them.
why do you say "holding off" like there's a deadline at which point they stop applying lmao
politicians care about process too!
What makes more sense: that he hasn’t cancelled student debt because he’s spent most of his career fighting to make sure that never happens, or that he’s just holding off on it despite massive & damaging public pressure because he has some other doubleplus-secret political iron in the fire and can’t take the time to instantly do something enormously popular?
this...isn't relevant?
like the question of why he hasn't done it is but whether he has or not isn't
politicians are not sunday morning cartoon villains strategizing how best to fuck over the american people for no reason other than Being Evil

No, they’re people trying to keep their jobs, act on their beliefs, and feather their nests, just like everyone else. Suggesting he’s not committed to the full policy slate he promised in the primary is pretty fucking far from suggesting he’s a “Sunday morning cartoon villain.”
i mean yeah there's a lot of stuff that he never even tried to do but that's a large jump from "biden is secretly setting manchin up to take the fall"
you're giving him a level of machivellian competence that he hasn't really shown anywhere
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
Aggicificicerous
Minister
 
Posts: 2148
Founded: Apr 24, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Aggicificicerous » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:40 pm

Kowani wrote:
Aggicificicerous wrote:
Business for West Virginia. That's what pork spending is for, it's what earmarks are for.

we just tried that
it didn't work


Really? My suspicion is that if it was tried, it wasn't tried very well, and certainly not alongside an arm twisting. It's always about twisting arms.

User avatar
Umeria
Senator
 
Posts: 3846
Founded: Mar 05, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Umeria » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:43 pm

Kowani wrote:this is pure conspiracism, sen
biden is unwilling to use every method at his disposal by punishing wv because...manchin hasn't given much indication that he actually cares about west virginians-and "biden tanks wv project proposal because manchin stood up to him" is not really a punishment for manchin, it's a campaign ad
this is not a very hard calculus!

Is "Manchin's daughter imprisoned for role in EpiPen scandal" a good campaign ad?
Ambassador Anthony Lockwood, at your service.
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"Umeria - We start with U"

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Zurkerx
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 10955
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:46 pm

The January 6 Committee has sent a letter to GOP Rep. Scott Perry, asking to interview him. He hasn't been subpoena as this is a voluntary interview. Perry is a member of the Freedom Caucus and one of several that had communication with the White House and some of the organizers.
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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:49 pm

Aggicificicerous wrote:
Kowani wrote:we just tried that
it didn't work


Really? My suspicion is that if it was tried, it wasn't tried very well,

"the narrative can never fail, it can only be failed"
what are we even looking at here, more projects in wv?
what's the magic threshold for a "yes"
and certainly not alongside an arm twisting. It's always about twisting arms.

manchin pulled out when biden said "we're making progress with manchin" i don't think "arm-twisting" would have done anything of value

Umeria wrote:Is "Manchin's daughter imprisoned for role in EpiPen scandal" a good campaign ad?
[/quote]
yeah, for the republicans
Last edited by Kowani on Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
Umeria
Senator
 
Posts: 3846
Founded: Mar 05, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Umeria » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:52 pm

Kowani wrote:
Umeria wrote:Is "Manchin's daughter imprisoned for role in EpiPen scandal" a good campaign ad?

yeah, for the republicans

So Joe Manchin doesn't want it to happen, right?
Ambassador Anthony Lockwood, at your service.
Author of GAR #389

"Umeria - We start with U"

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Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41636
Founded: Antiquity
New York Times Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:57 pm

Umeria wrote:
Kowani wrote:yeah, for the republicans

So Joe Manchin doesn't want it to happen, right?

Threatening to prosecute someone’s kid for political gain is some trump level Shit. He was impeached for something similar.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Umeria
Senator
 
Posts: 3846
Founded: Mar 05, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Umeria » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:00 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Umeria wrote:So Joe Manchin doesn't want it to happen, right?

Threatening to prosecute someone’s kid for political gain is some trump level Shit. He was impeached for something similar.

So?
Ambassador Anthony Lockwood, at your service.
Author of GAR #389

"Umeria - We start with U"

User avatar
Unclaimed Ireland
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Jul 03, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unclaimed Ireland » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:02 pm

Kowani wrote:
Aggicificicerous wrote:
Blackmail was the wrong term to use. But his arm can be twisted.

He doesn't want BBB not because it's offering his state money, but because it conflicts with his corporate donors. That doesn't mean he can't be bought.

how are you going to buy him
shovel more money into his coal business?

Senkaku wrote:The problem isn’t that Manchin “doesn’t want anything,” it’s that Biden is unwilling to threaten the things he wants as leverage, because Biden ultimately wants to use Manchin to secure an outcome they both want without taking the blame for it. There are ways he could retaliate (and if we’re actually talking about the full Johnson Treatment, I’m confident a bit of extrajudicial surveillance à la ‘60s could find some useful skeletons in Manchin’s closet).

this is pure conspiracism, sen
biden is unwilling to use every method at his disposal by punishing wv because...manchin hasn't given much indication that he actually cares about west virginians-and "biden tanks wv project proposal because manchin stood up to him" is not really a punishment for manchin, it's a campaign ad
this is not a very hard calculus!

biden has tons of things he could do without the senate getting involved!
but him not taking those actions means he has other considerations that he considers more important-wrongly imo, but they're still there
politicians are not sunday morning cartoon villains strategizing how best to fuck over the american people for no reason other than Being Evil
well, usually


The more I see of the political ruling class, the more I am convinced that most of them are sociopaths with absolutely zero conscience and no ethics or scruples whatsoever. Most are wholly owned by Wall Street. Biden is keeping his promises, just not to the American People.

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Haganham
Minister
 
Posts: 2153
Founded: Aug 17, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Haganham » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:05 pm

San Lumen wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/20/politics/first-puppy-bidens-white-house/index.html

The Biden’s have a new German Shepherd puppy. His name is Commander.

anyone want to do an over–under on it?
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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:14 pm

Umeria wrote:
Kowani wrote:yeah, for the republicans

So Joe Manchin doesn't want it to happen, right?

clearly not, no
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

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Corrian
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73684
Founded: Mar 19, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Corrian » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:17 pm

I have an idea.

Let's burn Manchin's yacht.
Last edited by Corrian on Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Umeria
Senator
 
Posts: 3846
Founded: Mar 05, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Umeria » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:18 pm

Kowani wrote:
Umeria wrote:So Joe Manchin doesn't want it to happen, right?

clearly not, no

So Biden does have a way to get Manchin to fall in line, he's just not using it.
Ambassador Anthony Lockwood, at your service.
Author of GAR #389

"Umeria - We start with U"

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:27 pm

Umeria wrote:
Kowani wrote:clearly not, no

So Biden does have a way to get Manchin to fall in line, he's just not using it.

that doesn't follow
firstly because biden doesn't pick and choose who the doj prosecutes but also because there's no guarantee that would get manchin on board anyway
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
Aggicificicerous
Minister
 
Posts: 2148
Founded: Apr 24, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Aggicificicerous » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:30 pm

Kowani wrote:"the narrative can never fail, it can only be failed"
what are we even looking at here, more projects in wv?
what's the magic threshold for a "yes"


Not sure I follow your reasoning. The magic threshold is when Manchin says yes. Whether it's in reach or not depends on how it's sold.


Kowani wrote:manchin pulled out when biden said "we're making progress with manchin" i don't think "arm-twisting" would have done anything of value


I don't think Biden is a competent negotiator.

Kowani wrote:
Umeria wrote:Is "Manchin's daughter imprisoned for role in EpiPen scandal" a good campaign ad?

yeah, for the republicans


Ultimately that hurts Manchin more. There's always potential for Democrats to get someone else in, or win seats in other states. Manchin is one guy with one job he presumably doesn't want to lose.

User avatar
Umeria
Senator
 
Posts: 3846
Founded: Mar 05, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Umeria » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:38 pm

Kowani wrote:
Umeria wrote:So Biden does have a way to get Manchin to fall in line, he's just not using it.

that doesn't follow
firstly because biden doesn't pick and choose who the doj prosecutes

You don't think Merrick Garland would prosecute her after Biden recommends it, given how flagrantly she violated the law?

Kowani wrote:but also because there's no guarantee that would get manchin on board anyway

Then justice is served. Win-win.
Ambassador Anthony Lockwood, at your service.
Author of GAR #389

"Umeria - We start with U"

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The Jamesian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13912
Founded: Apr 28, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:45 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
The Jamesian Republic wrote:BBB is going nowhere and it’s wasting time.
Republicans want inflation and the border crisis solved and if that can be done then they might be more willing to vote.
Perhaps the executive order one is too unrealistic but the others could be realistic.

The Republicans absolutely do not want inflation and a border crisis solved, what the fuck else will they run on?


Socialism

User avatar
Great Algerstonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2617
Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Algerstonia » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:47 pm

Corrian wrote:I have an idea.

Let's burn Manchin's yacht.

Bro how is it supposed to burn when it is covered by water
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Resilient Acceleration wrote:After a period of letting this discussion run its course without my involvement due to sheer laziness and a new related NS project, I have returned with an answer and that answer is Israel.

User avatar
The Jamesian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13912
Founded: Apr 28, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:50 pm

Great Algerstonia wrote:
Corrian wrote:I have an idea.

Let's burn Manchin's yacht.

Bro how is it supposed to burn when it is covered by water


Drag it to shore. I guess.

I have a better idea: Biden should declare that since Joe Manchin voted against BBB Joe Manchin is a communist. In fact he should have advertised BBB as “The way our glorious nation will advance forward triumphant into the future and anyone who disagrees is a communist.”
Last edited by The Jamesian Republic on Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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