US Math Education to Become Less Racist, More Inclusive

[GuessTheAltAccount]

From XKCD:

In theory, yeah. In practice, no. Anyone rushed to meet marking deadlines is going to have to make a judgment call on how complete an answer looks. How strong is the reasoning? Is there anything internally inconsistent in it, despite arriving at the right answer? There is some degree of basic human judgment on these sorts of things, and you never know where bias will creep in, even by accident.

These judgment calls have to be made in assessing history and the social sciences too, but again, the stakes are lower, because that's not as likely to make or break what job a student gets in the future.

I see a 27 at the end, I mark it as correct.

[Michel Meilleur]

From XKCD:

In theory, yeah. In practice, no. Anyone rushed to meet marking deadlines is going to have to make a judgment call on how complete an answer looks. How strong is the reasoning? Is there anything internally inconsistent in it, despite arriving at the right answer? There is some degree of basic human judgment on these sorts of things, and you never know where bias will creep in, even by accident.

These judgment calls have to be made in assessing history and the social sciences too, but again, the stakes are lower, because that's not as likely to make or break what job a student gets in the future.

I see a 27 at the end, I mark it as correct.

Literally the first thing a math teacher will tell you when prepping you for a test at high-school or uni level is : "It's not because it's the right answer that it's right".
Some of the most devious one will actually fuck you over if they see you doing "voodoo" to get to the right answer.

[Luminesa]

The answers are still objective. That doesn't change.

From XKCD:

In theory, yeah. In practice, no. Anyone rushed to meet marking deadlines is going to have to make a judgment call on how complete an answer looks. How strong is the reasoning? Is there anything internally inconsistent in it, despite arriving at the right answer? There is some degree of basic human judgment on these sorts of things, and you never know where bias will creep in, even by accident.

These judgment calls have to be made in assessing history and the social sciences too, but again, the stakes are lower, because that's not as likely to make or break what job a student gets in the future.

Some ways kids have to solve math are rather different than they were when we were kids, sure. Teaching using Common Core has taught me to be open to trial-and-error, especially when it comes to learning new ways to teach kids. The most important thing about Math, however, is teaching children that it’s okay to solve with a different method, as long as it’s consistent and correct.

[Diarcesia]

I see a 27 at the end, I mark it as correct.

Literally the first thing a math teacher will tell you when prepping you for a test at high-school or uni level is : "It's not because it's the right answer that it's right".
Some of the most devious one will actually fuck you over if they see you doing "voodoo" to get to the right answer.

If the lesson is "how to multiply in this particular way?", I can see why they do that.

If the aim, as the article implies, is to introduce equity and problem-solving as a team, that kind of mindset needs to go. As long as you don't cheat, if you arrive at the correct answer, it should be marked accordingly.

[Luminesa]

I see a 27 at the end, I mark it as correct.

Literally the first thing a math teacher will tell you when prepping you for a test at high-school or uni level is : "It's not because it's the right answer that it's right".
Some of the most devious one will actually fuck you over if they see you doing "voodoo" to get to the right answer.

I’m not entirely convinced your Math teachers are not just copies of the emotion vampire from What We Do in Shadows.

[The Alma Mater]

Literally the first thing a math teacher will tell you when prepping you for a test at high-school or uni level is : "It's not because it's the right answer that it's right".
Some of the most devious one will actually fuck you over if they see you doing "voodoo" to get to the right answer.

If the lesson is "how to multiply in this particular way?", I can see why they do that.

If the aim, as the article implies, is to introduce equity and problem-solving as a team, that kind of mindset needs to go. As long as you don't cheat, if you arrive at the correct answer, it should be marked accordingly.

As long as the arrival is not a coincidence.
Unless the team can repeat that coincidence consistently. Then it becomes something worth studying.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

I see a 27 at the end, I mark it as correct.

Literally the first thing a math teacher will tell you when prepping you for a test at high-school or uni level is : "It's not because it's the right answer that it's right".
Some of the most devious one will actually fuck you over if they see you doing "voodoo" to get to the right answer.

Nothing vindicates my perspective quite like the fact that those who disagree with it think it's acceptable to use BS reasoning just because they like the conclusion it's used to prop up.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Literally the first thing a math teacher will tell you when prepping you for a test at high-school or uni level is : "It's not because it's the right answer that it's right".
Some of the most devious one will actually fuck you over if they see you doing "voodoo" to get to the right answer.

If the lesson is "how to multiply in this particular way?", I can see why they do that.

If the aim, as the article implies, is to introduce equity and problem-solving as a team, that kind of mindset needs to go. As long as you don't cheat, if you arrive at the correct answer, it should be marked accordingly.

While it technically isn't counted as cheating, knowing the answer and BSing the reasoning with which you prove it is morally analogous to cheating.

[Diarcesia]

If the lesson is "how to multiply in this particular way?", I can see why they do that.

If the aim, as the article implies, is to introduce equity and problem-solving as a team, that kind of mindset needs to go. As long as you don't cheat, if you arrive at the correct answer, it should be marked accordingly.

While it technically isn't counted as cheating, knowing the answer and BSing the reasoning with which you prove it is morally analogous to cheating.

BSing the reasoning is like winning a battle then losing the war. I see no issues.

[Luminesa]

Literally the first thing a math teacher will tell you when prepping you for a test at high-school or uni level is : "It's not because it's the right answer that it's right".
Some of the most devious one will actually fuck you over if they see you doing "voodoo" to get to the right answer.

Nothing vindicates my perspective quite like the fact that those who disagree with it think it's acceptable to use BS reasoning just because they like the conclusion it's used to prop up.

Examples of how a student learns to solve Multiplication in Grade 3:

Repeated addition
Number line counting
Number facts
Number bonds
Multiplicative array

All of these methods have logic behind them, which the teacher can teach the student to recognize and use. The student can then use the method which makes them the most comfortable.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

While it technically isn't counted as cheating, knowing the answer and BSing the reasoning with which you prove it is morally analogous to cheating.

BSing the reasoning is like winning a battle then losing the war. I see no issues.

That's assuming every teacher, no matter how rushed to meet deadlines, catches you. In which case you won the battle and the war.

Or do you mean to tell me you didn't spot what was invalid in the XKCD example?

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Nothing vindicates my perspective quite like the fact that those who disagree with it think it's acceptable to use BS reasoning just because they like the conclusion it's used to prop up.

Examples of how a student learns to solve Multiplication in Grade 3:

Repeated addition
Number line counting
Number facts
Number bonds
Multiplicative array

All of these methods have logic behind them, which the teacher can teach the student to recognize and use. The student can then use the method which makes them the most comfortable.

Be honest. Did you, or did you not, notice what was wrong with the XKCD example?

[Diarcesia]

BSing the reasoning is like winning a battle then losing the war. I see no issues.

That's assuming every teacher, no matter how rushed to meet deadlines, catches you. In which case you won the battle and the war.

Or do you mean to tell me you didn't spot what was invalid in the XKCD example?

I did. Good luck trying to apply the same method in a different question.

[Luminesa]

Examples of how a student learns to solve Multiplication in Grade 3:

Repeated addition
Number line counting
Number facts
Number bonds
Multiplicative array

All of these methods have logic behind them, which the teacher can teach the student to recognize and use. The student can then use the method which makes them the most comfortable.

Be honest. Did you, or did you not, notice what was wrong with the XKCD example?

Giving it a second look, yeah…I do kinda see what they did wrong.

[Torisakia]

This is cool and all, but when are we going to ban calculus? That shit was the bane of my existence in college and no person should have to suffer through that.

Seriously, I think if we're having to go through all this just to teach some kids some math skills, the problem lies more in the system and how things are done rather than it being because of someone's skin color. But I know nothing about education so my opinion doesn't count.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

That's assuming every teacher, no matter how rushed to meet deadlines, catches you. In which case you won the battle and the war.

Or do you mean to tell me you didn't spot what was invalid in the XKCD example?

I did. Good luck trying to apply the same method in a different question.

The method is "make shit up, however invalid, because you already know which answers will get marked right and don't care about honesty regarding what sort of reasoning to justify them is or isn't valid." Just because the "pretend square root signs are division signs" variant of it won't work again doesn't mean they can't come up with another variant of it. You need to catch them to make them think twice about trying another one.

Be honest. Did you, or did you not, notice what was wrong with the XKCD example?

Giving it a second look, yeah…I do kinda see what they did wrong.

Does it not reflect a blind spot, then, in your reasoning, that you reacted before you knew where I was going with that? This is the assessment equivalent of mistaking a dolphin fetus for a human fetus.

[Diarcesia]

I did. Good luck trying to apply the same method in a different question.

The method is "make shit up, however invalid, because you already know which answers will get marked right and don't care about honesty regarding what sort of reasoning to justify them is or isn't valid." Just because the "pretend square root signs are division signs" variant of it won't work again doesn't mean they can't come up with another variant of it. You need to catch them to make them think twice about trying another one.

Ah yes, and it then leads to things like subjective interpretation of answers and this literacy test.

[Luminesa]

I did. Good luck trying to apply the same method in a different question.

The method is "make shit up, however invalid, because you already know which answers will get marked right and don't care about honesty regarding what sort of reasoning to justify them is or isn't valid." Just because the "pretend square root signs are division signs" variant of it won't work again doesn't mean they can't come up with another variant of it. You need to catch them to make them think twice about trying another one.

Giving it a second look, yeah…I do kinda see what they did wrong.

Does it not reflect a blind spot, then, in your reasoning, that you reacted before you knew where I was going with that? This is the assessment equivalent of mistaking a dolphin fetus for a human fetus.

Teachers aren’t robots and do make mistakes. However, the methods I teach my kids are consistent and give them correct answers. If they decide to use a different method that is also consistent and gives good answers, I encourage it.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

The method is "make shit up, however invalid, because you already know which answers will get marked right and don't care about honesty regarding what sort of reasoning to justify them is or isn't valid." Just because the "pretend square root signs are division signs" variant of it won't work again doesn't mean they can't come up with another variant of it. You need to catch them to make them think twice about trying another one.

Ah yes, and it then leads to things like subjective interpretation of answers and this literacy test.

Which is all the more reason we need to anonymize student answers so the teacher cannot tell whose answer it is while grading it.

Meanwhile, coming back full circle to the point I made earlier, something as politically charged as racial issues could introduce bias with or without knowledge of who the individual student is.

Teachers aren’t robots and do make mistakes. However, the methods I teach my kids are consistent and give them correct answers. If they decide to use a different method that is also consistent and gives good answers, I encourage it.

You just admitted you missed the problem in the XKCD one. What's stopping you from doing the same when rushed to meet marking deadlines?

[Luminesa]

Ah yes, and it then leads to things like subjective interpretation of answers and this literacy test.

Which is all the more reason we need to anonymize student answers so the teacher cannot tell whose answer it is while grading it.

Meanwhile, coming back full circle to the point I made earlier, something as politically charged as racial issues could introduce bias with or without knowledge of who the individual student is.

Teachers aren’t robots and do make mistakes. However, the methods I teach my kids are consistent and give them correct answers. If they decide to use a different method that is also consistent and gives good answers, I encourage it.

You just admitted you missed the problem in the XKCD one. What's stopping you from doing the same when rushed to meet marking deadlines?

Teachers do it all the time. When I make mistakes marking papers, I apologize and give points back. If a student disagrees with the way I grade, or there’s a typo in my assignment that they or I notice, I am glad to either explain my rationale or to apologize and fix the mistake. Being a good teacher doesn’t mean you never make mistakes. It means when you do make mistakes, you reflect and learn from them.

[Xmara]

I see a 27 at the end, I mark it as correct.

Literally the first thing a math teacher will tell you when prepping you for a test at high-school or uni level is : "It's not because it's the right answer that it's right".
Some of the most devious one will actually fuck you over if they see you doing "voodoo" to get to the right answer.

That's how some of my math teachers were. When I was in calculus in high school, I noticed a faster, easier way to solve a particular type of problem. The teacher's response was basically "it might work but this is my class so we're doing it my way." Of course my classmates agreed with the teacher...

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Which is all the more reason we need to anonymize student answers so the teacher cannot tell whose answer it is while grading it.

Meanwhile, coming back full circle to the point I made earlier, something as politically charged as racial issues could introduce bias with or without knowledge of who the individual student is.



You just admitted you missed the problem in the XKCD one. What's stopping you from doing the same when rushed to meet marking deadlines?

Teachers do it all the time. When I make mistakes marking papers, I apologize and give points back. If a student disagrees with the way I grade, or there’s a typo in my assignment that they or I notice, I am glad to either explain my rationale or to apologize and fix the mistake. Being a good teacher doesn’t mean you never make mistakes. It means when you do make mistakes, you reflect and learn from them.

Of course.

But word problems involving something as politically charged as racial issues will inevitably lead to biases that cloud one's judgment even further.

[Luminesa]

Teachers do it all the time. When I make mistakes marking papers, I apologize and give points back. If a student disagrees with the way I grade, or there’s a typo in my assignment that they or I notice, I am glad to either explain my rationale or to apologize and fix the mistake. Being a good teacher doesn’t mean you never make mistakes. It means when you do make mistakes, you reflect and learn from them.

Of course.

But word problems involving something as politically charged as racial issues will inevitably lead to biases that cloud one's judgment even further.

Not necessarily. There are also Social Studies Standards which can guide the way one might create word stories for kids. Consider the following problem:

Anita gets up for school at 6:30 AM. Marisol gets up for school at 7:15 AM. It takes Anita 20 minutes to get to 9th Street Elementary, and it takes Marisol 15 minutes to get to school at Dolores Street Elementary. School starts at 7:30 AM at both schools. At what time will Anita and Marisol arrive at school? Will either of them be late? Why or why not?

[Galloism]

I’m firmly in the camp of “it’s isn’t stupid if it works”.

So, if it works….

[Valrifall]

Teachers do it all the time. When I make mistakes marking papers, I apologize and give points back. If a student disagrees with the way I grade, or there’s a typo in my assignment that they or I notice, I am glad to either explain my rationale or to apologize and fix the mistake. Being a good teacher doesn’t mean you never make mistakes. It means when you do make mistakes, you reflect and learn from them.

Of course.

But word problems involving something as politically charged as racial issues will inevitably lead to biases that cloud one's judgment even further.

Word problems essentially dress up algebra and arithmetic in scenarios that may engage children. The fact the math is now presented in a word problem does not suddenly mean there are more "arguable" answers for correctness, no matter how touchy you find the subject matter.