US Math Education to Become Less Racist, More Inclusive

[Existential Cats]

It doesn't really mean much. Scores can improve because tests are easier. Scores can improve because peoples prepped more for them. Scores can improve just because of luck.

For all we know, the tests could have been harder, or the students might have improved in spite of bad luck. All of this is just speculation.

I still find myself quite doubtful of both the quality of the learning and of the effectiveness of the methods past basic education. While I'm ready to trust Lumi it can works with small kids, as they age and the material become more complex, it sounds like even less of a good idea to keep with song and dance.

After a certain level of specialization, sure, traditional pedagogical methods are probably best, though it's not like song and dance is only for little kids. I'm sure a lot of people on NS have watched Epic Rap Battles of History or Horrible Histories videos that fuse education and entertainment/music. Hell, NS itself is used as a pedagogical tool, and it's not your standard, dry way of learning political science. I mean, it's not music, but teaching high school and college kids how government works by handing them their own little cyber nation is creative and engaging, and who among us hasn't learned anything from that?

[Utquiagvik]

What we actually need is to teach the way we teach. The reason kids have such a hard time understanding math is because they get bored of constant paperwork.

[Dreria]

It doesn't really mean much. Scores can improve because tests are easier. Scores can improve because peoples prepped more for them. Scores can improve just because of luck.

For all we know, the tests could have been harder, or the students might have improved in spite of bad luck. All of this is just speculation.

I still find myself quite doubtful of both the quality of the learning and of the effectiveness of the methods past basic education. While I'm ready to trust Lumi it can works with small kids, as they age and the material become more complex, it sounds like even less of a good idea to keep with song and dance.

After a certain level of specialization, sure, traditional pedagogical methods are probably best, though it's not like song and dance is only for little kids. I'm sure a lot of people on NS have watched Epic Rap Battles of History or Horrible Histories videos that fuse education and entertainment/music. Hell, NS itself is used as a pedagogical tool, and it's not your standard, dry way of learning political science. I mean, it's not music, but teaching high school and college kids how government works by handing them their own little cyber nation is creative and engaging, and who among us hasn't learned anything from that?

if people think politics works like nation states then we are in big trouble

[Existential Cats]

For all we know, the tests could have been harder, or the students might have improved in spite of bad luck. All of this is just speculation.


After a certain level of specialization, sure, traditional pedagogical methods are probably best, though it's not like song and dance is only for little kids. I'm sure a lot of people on NS have watched Epic Rap Battles of History or Horrible Histories videos that fuse education and entertainment/music. Hell, NS itself is used as a pedagogical tool, and it's not your standard, dry way of learning political science. I mean, it's not music, but teaching high school and college kids how government works by handing them their own little cyber nation is creative and engaging, and who among us hasn't learned anything from that?

if people think politics works like nation states then we are in big trouble

Not quite, but NS teaches about political trade-offs, all the stakeholders involved in issues, and other things.

And let's be honest, most people probably have an ever lesser understanding of politics. It's as that supposed Churchill quote goes, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

[Yankee Rike]

Do liberals actually believe that black kids learn best through song and dance like some motown musical

I would posit that the implication that black children learn best through song and dance is the result of very poor reporting on the subject matter. In fact, it's quite possible the reporting is intended to get angry reactions from folks. They're still learning mathematics, and they're actually doing better on state tests - though I'm not really a big fan of standardized testing.

the whole thing just reeks of some 90s movie where white liberals realize that the key to teaching black kids is during a little hip hop dance with them. like holy fuck has anyone here actually met a black person before

[Reploid Productions]

Half of the people here are retarded

*** WARNED for flaming/trolling. ***

Emulating the behavior of the guy you named your country after is a very good way to find yourself violating the site rules and getting yourself shown the door by moderation. You don't get to resort to calling people you disagree with (or ANY player, for that matter) "retarded." If you want to debate your points, you have to do so without hurling abuse at the people you are arguing with.

~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Diarcesia]

I would posit that the implication that black children learn best through song and dance is the result of very poor reporting on the subject matter. In fact, it's quite possible the reporting is intended to get angry reactions from folks. They're still learning mathematics, and they're actually doing better on state tests - though I'm not really a big fan of standardized testing.

the whole thing just reeks of some 90s movie where white liberals realize that the key to teaching black kids is during a little hip hop dance with them. like holy fuck has anyone here actually met a black person before

It must be news to them to learn that not all black kids live in the inner city.

[The Two Jerseys]

I would posit that the implication that black children learn best through song and dance is the result of very poor reporting on the subject matter. In fact, it's quite possible the reporting is intended to get angry reactions from folks. They're still learning mathematics, and they're actually doing better on state tests - though I'm not really a big fan of standardized testing.

the whole thing just reeks of some 90s movie where white liberals realize that the key to teaching black kids is during a little hip hop dance with them. like holy fuck has anyone here actually met a black person before

You know what it is?

It's a mashup of Stand and Deliver and Sister Act 2.

[Spokesland]

That whole series of news articles are BS, there are some things that are somewhat racist in this world, but math is math

change my mind

No-one said Math was racist.

ummmm well....people did

First of all, the title of this discussion says, "US Math Education to Become Less Racist",(based on the news article stated below) which is indicating that people think there was racism to start with, and how is the way people teach math racist? As stated previously by a number of people, most signs of struggling in a subject are spotted at an early age, that is when educators should pick up on it and thoroughly address it

Second of all a mainstream news organization literally posted an article asking the question, Is Math Racist? Most of the time when people ask a question when they write an article they are trying to draw attention to what they are asking, so the editor must have some belief that math is apparently racist

[Diarcesia]

No-one said Math was racist.

ummmm well....people did

First of all, the title of this discussion says, "US Math Education to Become Less Racist",(based on the news article stated below) which is indicating that people think there was racism to start with

Second of all a mainstream news organization literally posted an article asking the question, Is Math Racist? Most of the time when people ask a question when they write an article they are trying to draw attention to what they are asking, so the editor must have some belief that math is apparently racist

I can agree that "racist" is not the correct term to use and serves more as clickbait. Making it something like "US Maths Education to Tailor Students' Learning Styles, More Inclusive" will also do the trick. But it's uncontroversial, so...

[Spokesland]

ummmm well....people did

First of all, the title of this discussion says, "US Math Education to Become Less Racist",(based on the news article stated below) which is indicating that people think there was racism to start with

Second of all a mainstream news organization literally posted an article asking the question, Is Math Racist? Most of the time when people ask a question when they write an article they are trying to draw attention to what they are asking, so the editor must have some belief that math is apparently racist

I can agree that "racist" is not the correct term to use and serves more as clickbait. Making it something like "US Maths Education to Tailor Students' Learning Styles, More Inclusive" will also do the trick. But it's uncontroversial, so...

Honestly, there are times where the media should and should not create clickbait. In today's world where addressing racism is a huge issue they should have known better not to use that terminology because it would create such a negative impact on them, even prominent leftists are denouncing the title and the reasoning used.

I think we need an unbiased news source, but dreams don't always come true

[Ifreann]

Did you miss the part in the article where the children's test scores were improving or...?

They're learning the same material better than with previous methods.

It doesn't really mean much. Scores can improve because tests are easier. Scores can improve because peoples prepped more for them. Scores can improve just because of luck.

I still find myself quite doubtful of both the quality of the learning and of the effectiveness of the methods past basic education. While I'm ready to trust Lumi it can works with small kids, as they age and the material become more complex, it sounds like even less of a good idea to keep with song and dance.

All relevant evidence shows that this is a good idea, but regardless I am MAD because of SINGING and DANCING

[FutureAmerica]

We should be teaching tougher math in US schools. Asia is superior in math to the US and getting better. If these clueless administrators get their way. The US will become a poor crime ridden wasteland in 10 years.

[Diarcesia]

We should be teaching tougher math in US schools. Asia is superior in math to the US and getting better. If these clueless administrators get their way. The US will become a poor crime ridden wasteland in 10 years.

The above statement has the same energy

[New haven america]

I mean, Arabs and other MENA groups are considered white in America and most of Europe, so...

do you consider arabs white or poc

Former. :^)

[New haven america]

We should be teaching tougher math in US schools. Asia is superior in math to the US and getting better. If these clueless administrators get their way. The US will become a poor crime ridden wasteland in 10 years.

Isn't Finland better than Japan or Korea academically, and they're much more relaxed?

[Big Jim P]

I think the criticism boils down to "teaching methods that Western civilization doesn't use is bad".

Who knew teaching methods of western civilizations would be used in a western civilization?

[New haven america]

I think the criticism boils down to "teaching methods that Western civilization doesn't use is bad".

Who knew teaching methods of western civilizations would be used in a western civilization?

>Point



>Your head

[Big Jim P]

Who knew teaching methods of western civilizations would be used in a western civilization?

>Point



>Your head

You seem to have missed mine.

[Dakini]

Did you miss the part in the article where the children's test scores were improving or...?

They're learning the same material better than with previous methods.

It doesn't really mean much. Scores can improve because tests are easier. Scores can improve because peoples prepped more for them. Scores can improve just because of luck.

Well, that last comment just shows that you're someone who doesn't know much at all about statistics.

I still find myself quite doubtful of both the quality of the learning and of the effectiveness of the methods past basic education. While I'm ready to trust Lumi it can works with small kids, as they age and the material become more complex, it sounds like even less of a good idea to keep with song and dance.

Nobody said that this is how high school or university students should learn. If you knew anything about mathematics and education, you would know that one of the big problems in teaching mathematics at the primary school level is that children are (sometimes subtly) encouraged to find it difficult or boring by teachers who often find mathematics difficult and boring. This results in a lot of students who stop taking mathematics classes as soon as they're able to do so.

If you can encourage young children to enjoy learning mathematics, then they are more likely to pursue the subject longer and with more enthusiasm.

[Ostroeuropa]

Alternative means of testing math through song and so on = good.

Eliminating different tracks = bad. (The reasons for this are complex, but suffice to say, it doesn't actually benefit students or eliminate inequality and may in fact remove social mobility from exceptional poorer students. The argument against different tracks goes that middle class parents educate their children outside of school which then results in higher placements, this is true. Eliminating those placements however won't actually do anything except perhaps disincentivize middle class parents from doing this. It won't benefit working class students. meanwhile, you have removed an opportnity for working class students who are gifted to be placed in an environment where they are seen as peers to middle class students in particular).

Yet more infiltration from a fringe and extremist hate ideology into unrelated subjects by doing shit like "If White Privilege means that johnny has 4 apples and sheniqua has 1 apple, how many more apples does Johnny have?" = Bad.

The third should be outright banned by law. The second, while ill advised, is something I'm content to let schools experiment with. The first should be outright mandated by law.

[Ostroeuropa]

Do liberals actually believe that black kids learn best through song and dance like some motown musical

I would posit that the implication that black children learn best through song and dance is the result of very poor reporting on the subject matter. In fact, it's quite possible the reporting is intended to get angry reactions from folks. They're still learning mathematics, and they're actually doing better on state tests - though I'm not really a big fan of standardized testing.

It may have less to do with race and more to do with class, which overlaps with race. There's plenty of books examining the differences between middle class children and working class children.

The "French/English garden" analogy used by one researcher into the topic is particularly notable. Middle class parents raise their children like a french garden. They schedhule everything, invest heavily in them, and control a lot of their activities into learning specific things.

Working class parents tend to use an "English garden" strategy where it's more of a "Whatever man. Here are some basic guidelines. If you need my help, please ask. We'll prune the weeds and just let chaos reign. It's good for character building.". Emphasis is placed heavily on the child finding out by themselves what they want to do with their time because nobody else is going to do it for them.

The "Structure" of lessons may appeal to the first type of parenting much more closely and would be more well received and understood by a child who has been raised in that environment compared to one who is like "This is boring. If I want to learn math i'd rather go count cows in a field and throw rocks with a speedometer.".

It's also suggested that this is because middle class people experience positive agency from societal institutions and learning how to navigate and control them is good for their psychological wellbeing. Meanwhile teaching a working class child the ins and outs of how bureaucracy works when they're going to be following orders their whole lives is... not great for them, compared to fostering a self-sufficiency and independence and a source of feelings of agency outside of structured environments. (In effect, since a structured environment is never going to be a place of agency for a working class person, they must be taught to find agency in other ways). Meanwhile, the middle class child becomes unable to function outside of societal institutions and structured environments, and spends their entire life paranoid about the plebs tearing them down, because if they do, the middle class person has no means of agency anymore as they never learned it except within the context of structured environments.

Given racial disparities in terms of class, it's entirely possible that this means that there is a significant overlap between "If we sing math at black people they learn it better than if we hand them a book on it" and reality. It's just misleading to frame it that way. If we add racial analysis to the agency and structure point the argument can even be strenghtened somewhat. Black parents, even relatively well off ones, would have generationally not really bothered teaching their children to find agency in structured environments, because that would be a non-starter for them. This may be changing now, but you know.

Making school less of a structured environment can help in two ways. Firstly by making working class kids engage more. And secondly by making the crybabies in the middle class learn how to cope without their hierarchical life support system where the only meaning they can find in life is lording it over other people by forcibly subjecting them to education on how to be less of a scrooge and find meaning and agency outside of structure and hierarchy. (Not all middle class, blah blah).

[Forsher]

Data science isn't going to do jackshit to help prepare people for university maths... or theoretical statistics for that matter. It may help with theoretical aspects of computer science, I don't know.

In terms of streaming, there's no evidence that it works for anyone.

In terms of the use of real world/word problems... obviously use them.

I'm not sure song and dance actually works (and probably just alienates as many pupils as it enthuses), but de-individualising maths seems like a good idea.

[Michel Meilleur]

Oh of course, and again, music probably works better for some math topics than others. Lots of practice is necessary, and I think another good way to teach is by asking the child what they thought when they got to an answer. Even if they get it wrong, letting them know they can fix their mistakes through continued practice definitely also helps to build self-esteem.

I think that's good pedagogy to ask kiddos for their thought process when solving a problem and to encourage them to try again by giving them positive feedback, but my question in that case is : wouldn't dancing and singing make it harder to do that by "overwhelming" them with stimuli?

If we go off Gardner’s Theory of Multiple Intelligences, one form of intelligence is musical. This means a person shows their intelligence through music. However, people have-hence the name-multiple intelligences, and playing to those strengths helps different children learn. This is why many schools have centers. Some children can learn best by interpersonal work (finding answers with a friend), and other children use visual-spatial intelligence (drawing arrays, making tessellations, computer games, etc).

Music works best in an early childhood setting, and activates a lot of foundational skills in children. Not only do they learn fine-motor and gross-motor skills, but they of course learn how to keep rhythm. Rhythm ties into math, even if small children don’t realize it yet. It can work into word problems for older children as well. Let’s try an example with time signatures and music:

Honestly, I fully agree with you in that regard for the smaller kids but I see two issues that I think cause a real problem. First off, how can one actually detect which method is best for a kid to learn? By trying them all and taking note for each kids? By asking the children themselves? I feel like it might make it harder for children in average to learn even if it might benefit some kids in particular. For that problem, I feel like there is a very easy and simple solution : smaller classroom and more teachers. That's one I doubt peoples in charge of budget are keen on accepting sadly.

Secondly, if a kid only know how to learn by song and dances, then how are they going to do once they reach middle or high school, or even university? Because they will be asked to learn a lot more, a lot harder and all of that only using "conventional" methods.
My preparatory classes were two years of over 40h a week of classes for intensive STEM learning with bi to tri weekly oral exams and written exams every weekend.
If I had not been prepared since a kid to learn by heart and taught a lot of rote learning methods, then I simply couldn't have dealt with it.

“Soundgarden’s ‘Fell on Black Days’ is played at a time signature of 6/4. Edith Pair’s ‘La vie en rose’ is played in a time signature of 4/4. Metallica’s ‘Nothing Else Matters’ is written in a time signature of 6/8. The Allman Brothers’ ‘Whipping Post’ is written in a time signature of 12/8. Order these time signature fractions from greatest to least.”

This would roughly follow some fifth-grade Common Core Standards for ordering fractions and using fractions with unlike denominators. It would also integrate music properly-kids can listen to all of these songs in a classroom, and would allow the teacher to integrate National Art Standards for understanding music.

I remember apples and oranges used instead of songs and I suppose that can make sense. I'm ready to believe you that it helps kids learn better but I can't help but feel that adding songs to listen to rather than just objects to give kids a concrete understanding of the numbers they're dealing with is a bit of an "extraneous step".

[Michel Meilleur]

Well, that last comment just shows that you're someone who doesn't know much at all about statistics.

Bruh, that comment just shows that you've only ever fapped to statistics and never studied nor used them.

Nobody said that this is how high school or university students should learn. If you knew anything about mathematics and education, you would know that one of the big problems in teaching mathematics at the primary school level is that children are (sometimes subtly) encouraged to find it difficult or boring by teachers who often find mathematics difficult and boring. This results in a lot of students who stop taking mathematics classes as soon as they're able to do so.

If you can encourage young children to enjoy learning mathematics, then they are more likely to pursue the subject longer and with more enthusiasm.

If you fuck up the way students learn mathematics when they're young, then they will have an extremely hard time to recover from it and will fail it once they reach actual maths that is taught in middle school and high schools because they will never have been prepared for it.