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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:49 pm
by Salus Maior
So long as they’re used responsibly I don’t see why not.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:50 pm
by FNU
Immortan Khan wrote:
FNU wrote:No dog is born aggressive, it comes from the way that it's owner treats them.

This is simply not true at all. This is just a cope from obsessive dog owner culture that cannot grasp that different breeds differ in their baseline levels of aggression along with other traits. Training can only go so far in preventing aggression and even well trained dogs have turned on their owners or on others.

I don't really have a counterpoint to this, but even still, traditionally aggressive breeds like Rott's and Pitt's can be incredibly lovey and dopey dogs, and most of the time, they are, at least in my experiences.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:04 pm
by Vikanias
Since it’s very clear now that IM is serious by the dog banning stuff, all animals show aggression to an extent, whether it’s you taking their food or them being threatened by you all animals show aggression. It’s not just limited to dogs, why haven’t cats been banned because they scratched me? Why not humans considering we pretty much kill each other intentionally on a daily basis? My point is banning dogs is so stupid and impossible considering no animal unless trained will listen to a human to get the fuck out, whether we ban them or no animal will bow down to us because we are top dog. we only got to this position because of our brains, if a bear was as smart as us and had an opposable thumb we wouldn’t be at the top. count your blessings.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:19 pm
by Ethel mermania
As a cat, I am for banning dogs from all jobs.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:29 pm
by Novsiveltz
Ignoring the arguments about dogs being capable of smelling things that humans are not capable of smelling, I want to explicitly state that you lost your point upon claiming it is animal abuse. Just to clarify: the criminal shooting/beating the animal, certainly yes. Using a dog to assist you in tracking down criminals or screening for drugs, nope.

Can you prove with specific evidence that law enforcement can perform the same and reduce/stop crime just as effectively without dogs and at a relatively similar cost? Dogs are domesticated animals with retained instincts to hunt and smell. Here, they are doing exactly that but for humans. In my opinion, the police treat them better than if they were left in the wild.

Yes also with the Coast Guard and Army

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:40 pm
by Kadan Land
Since we are an Iceland-type nation in The united Alliance. People can die from going on moving ice or surviving from our crime rates
with the national guard. So it's a Yes.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:42 pm
by Kadan Land
Ethel mermania wrote:As a cat, I am for banning dogs from all jobs.
Are you sure? Dogs have the ability to swim causing them for a good coast guard pet.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:14 pm
by Free Ravensburg
Kadan Land wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:As a cat, I am for banning dogs from all jobs.
Are you sure? Dogs have the ability to swim causing them for a good coast guard pet.

So can tigers, next question

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:32 pm
by Ethel mermania
Kadan Land wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:As a cat, I am for banning dogs from all jobs.
Are you sure? Dogs have the ability to swim causing them for a good coast guard pet.

I do approve of dogs as sharkbait. But wet fur on a dog smells horrible

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:10 pm
by Big Bad Blue
Because no dog has ever shot an unarmed young Black man.

Defund the police; replace cops with dogs.

The more I learn about cops the more I appreciate dogs.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:44 pm
by Cannot think of a name
Big Bad Blue wrote:Because no dog has ever shot an unarmed young Black man.

Defund the police; replace cops with dogs.

The more I learn about cops the more I appreciate dogs.

Not a joke, my mom's dog is straight up racist. She gets more aggressive and barky around black people.

The theory is that since she was chained up outside in a minority majority neighborhood where she was taunted by kids so she associates dark skin with being taunted.

But the takeaway here, my mom's dog is straight up racist.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:49 pm
by Hemakral
Using dogs in law enforcement is kind of like training a baby to disarm bombs- it's cheap, and they may enjoy doing it, but it's also unethical, as they can't give consent and don't understand the risks involved in what they're doing.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:50 pm
by Totalitarian Missouri
Big Bad Blue wrote:Because no dog has ever shot an unarmed young Black man.

Defund the police; replace cops with dogs.

The more I learn about cops the more I appreciate dogs.

Unbased.

Anyway, I think mauling Criminals to death is pretty neat.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:54 pm
by Hemakral
Totalitarian Missouri wrote:Anyway, I think mauling Criminals to death is pretty neat.

Meanwhile, in the far future

"Linda, I'm- I'm so, so sorry. I was speeding, and now- now they're going to release the Highway Patrol Murderbear. God, I can't believe this is it for me. Please, take care of our son, raise him well. I love you."

They were executed that very night.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:59 pm
by Totalitarian Missouri
Hemakral wrote:
Totalitarian Missouri wrote:Anyway, I think mauling Criminals to death is pretty neat.

Meanwhile, in the far future
"Linda, I'm sorry. I was speeding, and now- now they're going to release the Highway Patrol Murderbear. Take care of our son, raise him well. I love you."

This is the Future I fight for. 8)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:45 pm
by American Legionaries
Hemakral wrote:Using dogs in law enforcement is kind of like training a baby to disarm bombs- it's cheap, and they may enjoy doing it, but it's also unethical, as they can't give consent and don't understand the risks involved in what they're doing.


Consent and an understanding of risks isn't necessary on account of dogs being, y'know, dogs.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:23 am
by Dogmeat
American Legionaries wrote:
Hemakral wrote:Using dogs in law enforcement is kind of like training a baby to disarm bombs- it's cheap, and they may enjoy doing it, but it's also unethical, as they can't give consent and don't understand the risks involved in what they're doing.


Consent and an understanding of risks isn't necessary on account of dogs being, y'know, dogs.

Speaking on behalf of all good boys, we would accept the risk anyway. Because it's who we are.

But that's not really the point. It's not unethical because the dog would refuse. It's unethical because the dog will never refuse. There are many things that you can coerce a dog to do that you probably shouldn't. Not because the dog minds, but because it lowers you.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:01 am
by Salus Maior
Dogmeat wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
Consent and an understanding of risks isn't necessary on account of dogs being, y'know, dogs.

Speaking on behalf of all good boys, we would accept the risk anyway. Because it's who we are.

But that's not really the point. It's not unethical because the dog would refuse. It's unethical because the dog will never refuse. There are many things that you can coerce a dog to do that you probably shouldn't. Not because the dog minds, but because it lowers you.


That's not a thing in ethics. Consent is consent, and if there's consent it's not coercion.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:24 pm
by Iwassoclose
Salus Maior wrote:So long as they’re used responsibly I don’t see why not.

Thats the rub, they arent

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:14 pm
by Salus Maior
Iwassoclose wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:So long as they’re used responsibly I don’t see why not.

Thats the rub, they arent


So they should be.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:22 pm
by Iwassoclose
Salus Maior wrote:
Iwassoclose wrote:Thats the rub, they arent


So they should be.


But they wont be. Thats the problem.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:46 pm
by Neutraligon
Dogmeat wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
Consent and an understanding of risks isn't necessary on account of dogs being, y'know, dogs.

Speaking on behalf of all good boys, we would accept the risk anyway. Because it's who we are.

But that's not really the point. It's not unethical because the dog would refuse. It's unethical because the dog will never refuse. There are many things that you can coerce a dog to do that you probably shouldn't. Not because the dog minds, but because it lowers you.

Welll, there are dogs that failed because they where too friendly...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:47 pm
by Cannot think of a name
Iwassoclose wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
So they should be.


But they wont be. Thats the problem.

There's better jobs for them anyway if we insist on giving animals jobs, like helping people with disabilities or as a way to get pretty people to talk to you.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:49 pm
by Neutraligon
Cannot think of a name wrote:
Iwassoclose wrote:
But they wont be. Thats the problem.

There's better jobs for them anyway if we insist on giving animals jobs, like helping people with disabilities or as a way to get pretty people to talk to you.

NOt all dogs in law enforcement have the personality to act as service dogs.

As an aside I assume we are excluding search and rescue dogs from the conversation?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:59 am
by Dogmeat
Salus Maior wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Speaking on behalf of all good boys, we would accept the risk anyway. Because it's who we are.

But that's not really the point. It's not unethical because the dog would refuse. It's unethical because the dog will never refuse. There are many things that you can coerce a dog to do that you probably shouldn't. Not because the dog minds, but because it lowers you.


That's not a thing in ethics. Consent is consent, and if there's consent it's not coercion.

Maybe finish the paragraph.

Consent for dogs is much like consent for children. It's not something they can meaningfully give.

And so you, the steward of the dog/child must make sure that what you are asking of them is ethical. Because it's not something they are equipped to do.