Bill Maher blames gaming, beards and bad attire for "incels"

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

Yes. Let's pretend that all men are white, straight, able-bodied, neurotypical, cisgender...

Let's also pretend that expecting to bear full responsibility for family finances, being considered weak or "unmanly" for displaying emotions other than anger, avoiding seeking help for physical or mental illness, eschewing intimate friendships and physical contact with everyone other than one's romantic partner and other things are good and healthy for men.


Chivalry is mostly rules of medieval combat. Also, unless someone is on crutches in a wheelchair or has their hands full, they don't need you to open doors for them (if someone does need help with a door, anyone should be willing to help them regardless of gender).


That's just a load of horseshit.

I feel like a lot of you people are in here listening to tradwives and other anti-feminist women talk about how they want to sit at home and then acting like this is what feminists want.

I mean, tbh, the amount of women I've seen who claim to be progressive but then who do a complete 180 and also spout those ideas as AOK (Well, replace Anger with Happiness) is way too high for comfort.

Usually calling them out on it will get you famous responses like "Men are the initiators so they should pay!" or "I'm not his mom/therapist, it's not my job to help him when he's sad!" or "I can't be his rock, he needs to be mine!" as if those are ok.

Again, patriarchal gender roles and 1/2 baked feminism have become quite peculiar bed fellows over the past 30 or so years.

men will literally come up with 'patriarchal gender roles' and force them on women and girls through violence and abuse & then complain when women perpetuate patriarchal gender roles LOL

don't dig a hole and get mad at your shovel

[Dakini]

I mean, tbh, the amount of women I've seen who claim to be progressive but then who do a complete 180 and also spout those ideas as AOK (Well, replace Anger with Happiness) is way too high for comfort.

Usually calling them out on it will get you famous responses like "Men are the initiators so they should pay!" or "I'm not his mom/therapist, it's not my job to help him when he's sad!" or "I can't be his rock, he needs to be mine!" as if those are ok.

Again, patriarchal gender roles and 1/2 baked feminism have become quite peculiar bed fellows over the past 30 or so years.

men will literally come up with 'patriarchal gender roles' and force them on women and girls through violence and abuse & then complain when women perpetuate patriarchal gender roles LOL

don't dig a hole and get mad at your shovel

Bullshit gender roles hurt everyone and there are women who enforce them too.

[Stellar Colonies]

I mean, tbh, the amount of women I've seen who claim to be progressive but then who do a complete 180 and also spout those ideas as AOK (Well, replace Anger with Happiness) is way too high for comfort.

Usually calling them out on it will get you famous responses like "Men are the initiators so they should pay!" or "I'm not his mom/therapist, it's not my job to help him when he's sad!" or "I can't be his rock, he needs to be mine!" as if those are ok.

Again, patriarchal gender roles and 1/2 baked feminism have become quite peculiar bed fellows over the past 30 or so years.

men will literally come up with 'patriarchal gender roles' and force them on women and girls through violence and abuse & then complain when women perpetuate patriarchal gender roles LOL

don't dig a hole and get mad at your shovel

Men and women created those gender roles together and enforce them upon each other.

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

men will literally come up with 'patriarchal gender roles' and force them on women and girls through violence and abuse & then complain when women perpetuate patriarchal gender roles LOL

don't dig a hole and get mad at your shovel

Bullshit gender roles hurt everyone and there are women who enforce them too.

men will literally come up with 'patriarchal gender roles' and force them on women and girls through violence and abuse & then complain when women perpetuate patriarchal gender roles LOL

don't dig a hole and get mad at your shovel

Men and women created those gender roles together and enforce them upon each other.

thanks for underlining my point guys! really helpful of u to continue to illustrate it :)

[Dakini]

Bullshit gender roles hurt everyone and there are women who enforce them too.

Men and women created those gender roles together and enforce them upon each other.

thanks for underlining my point guys! really helpful of u to continue to illustrate it

I honestly don't understand what your deal is.

Like, you're aware that I'm a woman, right?

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

thanks for underlining my point guys! really helpful of u to continue to illustrate it

I honestly don't understand what your deal is.

Like, you're aware that I'm a woman, right?

oh i didn't know that. in that case might i suggest you drop the pickme shtick?

[Dakini]

I honestly don't understand what your deal is.

Like, you're aware that I'm a woman, right?

oh i didn't know that. in that case might i suggest you drop the pickme shtick?

It's not a "pickme shtick". When I was buying practical footwear in high school, it wasn't my dad who called them "shoes for lesbians", it was my mom. When I wanted to learn karate, it was my mom who told me "girls don't learn how to fight". When I wanted to go out for the competitive swim team in my city, it was my mom who wouldn't let me because "you'll get big shoulders".

Pretending that women don't enforce patriarchal standards or that men are not negatively affected by patriarchy doesn't make you enlightened, it makes you naive.

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

oh i didn't know that. in that case might i suggest you drop the pickme shtick?

It's not a "pickme shtick". When I was buying practical footwear in high school, it wasn't my dad who called them "shoes for lesbians", it was my mom. When I wanted to learn karate, it was my mom who told me "girls don't learn how to fight". When I wanted to go out for the competitive swim team in my city, it was my mom who wouldn't let me because "you'll get big shoulders".

Pretending that women don't enforce patriarchal standards or that men are not negatively affected by patriarchy doesn't make you enlightened, it makes you naive.

i literally said word for word, women perpetuate gender roles. did you not even read my post or.

& whether men are grossly negatively affected by patriarchy or not is impertinent. they benefit more than they lose.

[Neanderthaland]

I realize I'm only adding to the problem. But this is 22 pages more than Bill Maher deserves.

[Stellar Colonies]

Bullshit gender roles hurt everyone and there are women who enforce them too.

Men and women created those gender roles together and enforce them upon each other.

thanks for underlining my point guys! really helpful of u to continue to illustrate it

ditto

[Dakini]

It's not a "pickme shtick". When I was buying practical footwear in high school, it wasn't my dad who called them "shoes for lesbians", it was my mom. When I wanted to learn karate, it was my mom who told me "girls don't learn how to fight". When I wanted to go out for the competitive swim team in my city, it was my mom who wouldn't let me because "you'll get big shoulders".

Pretending that women don't enforce patriarchal standards or that men are not negatively affected by patriarchy doesn't make you enlightened, it makes you naive.

i literally said word for word, women perpetuate gender roles. did you not even read my post or.

I did misread, but you seem to do that a lot too, so I don't think you get to be too offended.

& whether men are grossly negatively affected by patriarchy or not is impertinent. they benefit more than they lose.

Even if you're assuming a straight, white, cis, ablebodied, neurotypical man, it's not even clear that he benefits more than he loses from patriarchal norms. How does a man win when he's expected to feel ashamed if his partner earns more than he does? How does a man win when he feels ashamed to visit the doctor for an illness instead of "manning up" and getting over it? How does a man win when he doesn't feel that he can confide in anyone other than his romantic partner?

Yeah, it's worse for women and non-binary people. That doesn't mean that the patriarchy actually benefits most men.

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

i literally said word for word, women perpetuate gender roles. did you not even read my post or.

I did misread, but you seem to do that a lot too, so I don't think you get to be too offended.

i'm not confident we've ever once interacted before, unless you used to have a different username.

& whether men are grossly negatively affected by patriarchy or not is impertinent. they benefit more than they lose.

Even if you're assuming a straight, white, cis, ablebodied, neurotypical man, it's not even clear that he benefits more than he loses from patriarchal norms. How does a man win when he's expected to feel ashamed if his partner earns more than he does? How does a man win when he feels ashamed to visit the doctor for an illness instead of "manning up" and getting over it? How does a man win when he doesn't feel that he can confide in anyone other than his romantic partner?

Yeah, it's worse for women and non-binary people. That doesn't mean that the patriarchy actually benefits most men.

in a system where actual victims of patriarchal oppression, such as yourself, can be so desperate to demonstrate their progressivism that they will argue that men, their oppressors, are actually victims, it's hard for me to imagine how men wouldn't be winning. it'd be tough to argue that a kidnapper whose victim has developed stockholm syndrome is somehow losing out.

more to the point, all of those things are self-preservation mechanisms or actively aid men in what has historically been the primary goal of the male sex - subjugation of and sexual control over women. shaming of men who earn less than their wives is a very useful means of ensuring that men continue to earn more than their wives and their wives remain domesticated out of fear of poverty and starvation. the individual men who lose because of this do not lose as much as men, collectively, win.

as for the latter two, men are discouraged from emotional and physical vulnerability because (socially speaking) those are a central defining trait of womanhood, so men exercising them would be converging towards womanhood. to become more like a woman is to imply that women can be more like men — and if that is true, women can escape vulnerability and then men have instantly lost their hold over women. so again, individual men that lose out here do not lose to the extent that men overall win.

i will concede that men as a class are winning less and less from these strategies because women — albeit few — are beginning to learn how to exploit this system. however, these strategies are also becoming less common for the same reason. those social adaptations only persist when they serve a useful purpose.

[New haven america]

I mean, tbh, the amount of women I've seen who claim to be progressive but then who do a complete 180 and also spout those ideas as AOK (Well, replace Anger with Happiness) is way too high for comfort.

Usually calling them out on it will get you famous responses like "Men are the initiators so they should pay!" or "I'm not his mom/therapist, it's not my job to help him when he's sad!" or "I can't be his rock, he needs to be mine!" as if those are ok.

Again, patriarchal gender roles and 1/2 baked feminism have become quite peculiar bed fellows over the past 30 or so years.

1. men will literally come up with 'patriarchal gender roles' and force them on women and girls through violence and abuse & then complain when women perpetuate patriarchal gender roles LOL

2. don't dig a hole and get mad at your shovel

1A. I mean, considering that up until recently you were also part of "the patriarchy" part of patriarchal gender roles, chances are that you have a more intimate experience than most about how they can harm males, especially those that don't follow their established norms...

B. Also, last time I checked, I was never a part of the construction of Western patriarchal genders roles, no male alive today was in fact, those that we consider traditional gender roles formed all the way back during the time of The Roman Republic/Empire, some 2500 years ago. So why are you claiming guys who want to get rid of them made them when that happened thousands of years ago?

2. Again, you need to learn to take your own advice.

thanks for underlining my point guys! really helpful of u to continue to illustrate it

I honestly don't understand what your deal is.

Like, you're aware that I'm a woman, right?

Ce's kind of taken on this idea of "Not taking shit from anyone anymore."

Even though in reality that's manifested in almost solely attacking people who can help her cause while cuddling up to most right-wingers and conservatives on the site who are against pretty much everything she supports or wants.

So, since you support similar ideas (Like, patriarchy gender roles=bad) then she's gonna be against you.

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

1. I mean, considering that up until recently you were also part of "the patriarchy" part of patriarchal gender roles, chances are that you have a more intimate experience than most about how they can harm males, especially those that don't follow their established norms...

not entirely sure what "recently" means to you, or perhaps you have no idea about my personal situation, but that's not really the important part here. on the contrary, the fact that i experienced male privilege for so long and then became deprived of its direct influences (albeit retaining residual privilege, important to note) only serves to underscore to me how insanely good men have it in comparison to women.

i would also point out that the fact male-to-female transsexuals and adjacent identities have historically been more common is not a statistical accident and in fact results from the fact that males are freer to break out of established norms.

I honestly don't understand what your deal is.

Like, you're aware that I'm a woman, right?

Ce's kind of taken on this idea of "Not taking shit from anyone anymore."

Even though in reality that means almost solely attacking people who can help her cause while cuddling up to most right-wingers and conservatives on the site who are against pretty much everything she supports.

So, since you support similar ideas (Like, patriarchy gender roles=bad) then she's gonna be against you.

not exactly, ne ha am. it's more that it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't. the right-wing is transparently wrong in what they want, but far more prone to persuasion because their ideals and motivations are not fundamentally dissimilar from my own. that is, they differ in solutions, not problems. that's more familiar, easier to sway. liberals and so-called egalitarians, on the other hand, might almost agree with some of what i support, but for such vastly different (and often opaque) reasons that it's impossible to use them as a force for good.

it also doesn't help that the liberals on this site are so freaking obnoxious in tone, to the point that even you're better than some of them. at least the right-wingers aren't so shrill and sanctimonious.

[Ispravlennaja Tsekovija]

returning to the topic, i think the beard part is especially funny. many women prefer clean-shaven guys but honestly the problem is more specific poorly groomed beards like neckbeards, not beards in general. personally i tend to prefer them even, at least with certain body types

[New haven america]

1. I mean, considering that up until recently you were also part of "the patriarchy" part of patriarchal gender roles, chances are that you have a more intimate experience than most about how they can harm males, especially those that don't follow their established norms...

not entirely sure what "recently" means to you, or perhaps you have no idea about my personal situation, but that's not really the important part here. 1. on the contrary, the fact that i experienced male privilege for so long and then became deprived of its direct influences (albeit retaining residual privilege, important to note) only serves to underscore to me how insanely good men have it in comparison to women.

2. i would also point out that the fact male-to-female transsexuals and adjacent identities have historically been more common is not a statistical accident and in fact results from the fact that males are freer to break out of established norms.

Ce's kind of taken on this idea of "Not taking shit from anyone anymore."

Even though in reality that means almost solely attacking people who can help her cause while cuddling up to most right-wingers and conservatives on the site who are against pretty much everything she supports.

So, since you support similar ideas (Like, patriarchy gender roles=bad) then she's gonna be against you.

3. not exactly, ne ha am. it's more that it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't. the right-wing is transparently wrong in what they want, but far more prone to persuasion because their ideals and motivations are not fundamentally dissimilar from my own. that is, they differ in solutions, not problems. that's more familiar, easier to sway. liberals and so-called egalitarians, on the other hand, might almost agree with some of what i support, but for such vastly different (and often opaque) reasons that it's impossible to use them as a force for good.

it also doesn't help that the liberals on this site are so freaking obnoxious in tone, to the point that even you're better than some of them. at least the right-wingers aren't so shrill and sanctimonious.

1. Yes, having to deny your own gender identity and expression sure sounds like a great privilege.
2. No actually, historically it's been pretty even and actually, today FtM or women taking on any male coded thing in general is much more accepted nowadays due to the fact that women now have much more freedom of expression than men do.

Quite frankly, what you're doing is an Oppression Olympics where there it's not needed. (Sidenote: TERFs would argue that you still have male privilege, and that you're just trying to invade and corrupt female-only spaces and safety nets for your own patriarchal desires)

Also, I like how you ignore my point that men today didn't invent traditional gender roles, so getting mad at them for wanting to get rid of them makes no sense. No male alive today made them, traditional gender roles as we know them were made during the era of The Roman Republic/Empire.

3. And now it sounds even more nonsensical.

[New Visayan Islands]

1. I mean, considering that up until recently you were also part of "the patriarchy" part of patriarchal gender roles, chances are that you have a more intimate experience than most about how they can harm males, especially those that don't follow their established norms...

not entirely sure what "recently" means to you, or perhaps you have no idea about my personal situation, but that's not really the important part here. on the contrary, the fact that i experienced male privilege for so long and then became deprived of its direct influences (albeit retaining residual privilege, important to note) only serves to underscore to me how insanely good men have it in comparison to women.

i would also point out that the fact male-to-female transsexuals and adjacent identities have historically been more common is not a statistical accident and in fact results from the fact that males are freer to break out of established norms.

Ce's kind of taken on this idea of "Not taking shit from anyone anymore."

Even though in reality that means almost solely attacking people who can help her cause while cuddling up to most right-wingers and conservatives on the site who are against pretty much everything she supports.

So, since you support similar ideas (Like, patriarchy gender roles=bad) then she's gonna be against you.

not exactly, ne ha am. it's more that it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't. the right-wing is transparently wrong in what they want, but far more prone to persuasion because their ideals and motivations are not fundamentally dissimilar from my own. that is, they differ in solutions, not problems. that's more familiar, easier to sway. liberals and so-called egalitarians, on the other hand, might almost agree with some of what i support, but for such vastly different (and often opaque) reasons that it's impossible to use them as a force for good.

it also doesn't help that the liberals on this site are so freaking obnoxious in tone, to the point that even you're better than some of them. at least the right-wingers aren't so shrill and sanctimonious.

The last time I issued you a forumban I pointed out that the Moderation Team will have a long discussion on your future in this site the next time you lose a nation. That time is now:

Ispravlennaja Tsekovija, *** DEAT + 2 weeks off for trolling and flaming *** pending a long discussion on your future in this site.

New Visayan Islands
Game Moderator

[Haganham]

Also, I like how you ignore my point that men today didn't invent traditional gender roles, so getting mad at them for wanting to get rid of them makes no sense. No male alive today made them, traditional gender roles as we know them were made during the era of The Roman Republic/Empire.

Eh, I know of sources of the OG "traditional gender role" as far back as 700's BC. But the relationship we think of traditional gender roles, with women having a servile role really emerged from the late medieval to Victorian period. And they weren't invented by anyone. They are a result of industrialization and technological advancements shifting the balance of a couples' traditional responsibilities.
Basically in an agrarian society men would work in fields or pastures(often both over the year). This work which would pay for the land the family lived on and provide money for what little was not made at home; Women would tend to all the families other needs, Which includes what would be called "women's work" in the 50's, cleaning, washing clothes, minding children, but also included fetching water, tending to the families animals and garden, making cloth, etc.

As society industrialized two things happened;
First, men were able to be much more productive, as farming became industrialized the output of farmers increased, this increased the income for farmers and also meant more men were able to pursue trades which paid better then farm labor.
Second the products of these trades meant that the time needed for "woman's work" was significantly reduced as new inventions made it easier, or allowed products that previously required their labor to be purchased.
This shift, with men's contributions to the household growing and women's responsibilities shrinking shifted perception of the roles between genders from one of division of equal roles(the facing outward and the woman inward) to that of a master and servant, where the man provided for the family and the women did menial tasks that were beneath him.

[Dreria]

not entirely sure what "recently" means to you, or perhaps you have no idea about my personal situation, but that's not really the important part here. on the contrary, the fact that i experienced male privilege for so long and then became deprived of its direct influences (albeit retaining residual privilege, important to note) only serves to underscore to me how insanely good men have it in comparison to women.

i would also point out that the fact male-to-female transsexuals and adjacent identities have historically been more common is not a statistical accident and in fact results from the fact that males are freer to break out of established norms.

not exactly, ne ha am. it's more that it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't. the right-wing is transparently wrong in what they want, but far more prone to persuasion because their ideals and motivations are not fundamentally dissimilar from my own. that is, they differ in solutions, not problems. that's more familiar, easier to sway. liberals and so-called egalitarians, on the other hand, might almost agree with some of what i support, but for such vastly different (and often opaque) reasons that it's impossible to use them as a force for good.

it also doesn't help that the liberals on this site are so freaking obnoxious in tone, to the point that even you're better than some of them. at least the right-wingers aren't so shrill and sanctimonious.

The last time I issued you a forumban I pointed out that the Moderation Team will have a long discussion on your future in this site the next time you lose a nation. That time is now:

Ispravlennaja Tsekovija, *** DEAT + 2 weeks off for trolling and flaming *** pending a long discussion on your future in this site.

New Visayan Islands
Game Moderator

You as a man are deciding that there is no place for woman’s voices on this site?

[Big Jim P]

I realize I'm only adding to the problem. But this is 22 pages more than Bill Maher deserves.

Indeed. He should go back to "reality has a liberal bias" when every leftist loved him.

[Cannot think of a name]

I realize I'm only adding to the problem. But this is 22 pages more than Bill Maher deserves.

Indeed. He should go back to "reality has a liberal bias" when every leftist loved him.

That quote came from Stephen Colbert's White House Dinner speech, and that last part happened never. There was a period where I felt like Glenn Beck was only actually being watched by interns at aggregate websites looking for him to say something bananas, Maher falls into that. Literally the only time I ever hear about Maher is some conservative either bunching their underwear about some bullshit he said or getting a big warm gotcha boner because he said something about 'cancel culture' or some other Boomer shit.

[Big Jim P]

Indeed. He should go back to "reality has a liberal bias" when every leftist loved him.

That quote came from Stephen Colbert's White House Dinner speech, and that last part happened never. There was a period where I felt like Glenn Beck was only actually being watched by interns at aggregate websites looking for him to say something bananas, Maher falls into that. Literally the only time I ever hear about Maher is some conservative either bunching their underwear about some bullshit he said or getting a big warm gotcha boner because he said something about 'cancel culture' or some other Boomer shit.

Of late he's been showing signs of actual thought. Libs don't like that he's not toeing the line anymore.

[New haven america]

That quote came from Stephen Colbert's White House Dinner speech, and that last part happened never. There was a period where I felt like Glenn Beck was only actually being watched by interns at aggregate websites looking for him to say something bananas, Maher falls into that. Literally the only time I ever hear about Maher is some conservative either bunching their underwear about some bullshit he said or getting a big warm gotcha boner because he said something about 'cancel culture' or some other Boomer shit.

Of late he's been showing signs of actual thought. Libs don't like that he's not toeing the line anymore.

What are you going on about...

[Cannot think of a name]

Of late he's been showing signs of actual thought. Libs don't like that he's not toeing the line anymore.

What are you going on about...

His gotcha boner.

[The Blaatschapen]

I realize I'm only adding to the problem. But this is 22 pages more than Bill Maher deserves.

Charles Manson only had six.

Bill Maher is a better person than Charles Manson.