Can the Capitol Hill rioters be charged with felony murder?

[Alkhilafa Rasullalah]

US law doesn't operate on the logic of "Both sides".

Actually "lets not set that precedent" is the basis of a lot of decisions in US politics.

The fact that it was an Unorganized, Unlead group of People that everyone grouped together as one thing because they all thought Racism wasn't good.

and that is distinct from the Jan 6th attacks how?

Because they conspired to commit a specific crime
(US Capitol siege).
Felony murder isn’t “people with your opinion did a murder” it’s “people who cooperated in another felony are responsible for any murders”.
Protesting racism isn’t a felony.

[Senkaku]

98 years ago today, a bunch of traitors tried to overthrow the Weimar Republic, which then spared their lives instead of executing them for treason. The result? Those whose lives were spared went on to create Nazi Germany, all because they weren't executed. Unless it's life without eligibility for parole are pardon, it's not enough.

https://i.imgur.com/M5GKtoT.mp4

Seriously, whacking a bunch of random Facebook-addled Gen X realtors & their millennial NEET spawn is exactly the wrong approach to resolving the coup threat— the ongoing problem here is not coming from the individuals who were actually inside day of

[Antipatros]

98 years ago today, a bunch of traitors tried to overthrow the Weimar Republic, which then spared their lives instead of executing them for treason. The result? Those whose lives were spared went on to create Nazi Germany, all because they weren't executed. Unless it's life without eligibility for parole are pardon, it's not enough.

https://imgur.com/a/XvHYZDU

What's more worrisome than a lack of executions is the total failure of the Republican Party to repudiate or reform these factions within their own party.

[Senkaku]

https://imgur.com/a/XvHYZDU

What's more worrisome than a lack of executions is the total failure of the Republican Party to repudiate or reform these factions within their own party.

I mean that seems pretty par for the course, the real issue is a Democratic AG who seems veeeery reluctant to prosecute the ringleaders

[Ifreann]

No, the Capitol Hill protestors cannot and should not be charged with any crime beyond simple trespass, if even that.

If anyone ought to be charged with murder, it should be the Capitol police officer who murdered Ashley Babbit.

Reiterating that I'm not a fancy big city lawyer, nor even a simple small town lawyer with suspenders to snap, if Ashli Babbitt's death were a murder, then it would be possible to charge the trespassers with murder. Burglary is a felony that can trigger DC's felony murder rule, and burglary in DC is the crime of entering a building with the intent to commit a crime. Just intent is enough, even if a crime doesn't actually happen.

[Kaczynskisatva]

Sure, let's charge some people. Here's a few idea of where to start:

Name: Enrique Tarrio
Rank: Leader of the Proud Boys
Profession: Former criminal, professional FBI Informant since 2012

https://nypost.com/2021/01/27/proud-boy ... ps-report/

Name: Thomas Caldwell
Rank: Leader of the Oathkeepers
Profession: Former Navy, former FBI section chief from 2009, head of a consulting firm doing classified work for the US government.

https://time.com/5937535/us-capitol-rio ... reddit.com

We should also look into whoever planted the non-viable alleged explosive device in some parking lot, under which pretext most of the Capitol police force were moved away from the congressional buildings.

We should also attempt to identify, and arrest, whoever it was who gave the order to the Capitol police to open the doors to the building, allowing people to walk freely into the building, which was later determined to be trespassing and, according to the level of information here, treason.

Finally, there are numerous unindicted co-conspirators in the "big three" groups responsible for an organized approach to entering the capitol building. These are probably additional undercover FBI agents and informants, and they should also be arrested and charged with something.

This leads us to wonder if NSG has any general awareness of the FBI's history of infiltrating extremist organizations, creating them, and plotting and executing terrorist attacks - most notably, the first World Trade Center bombing. We are also lead to wonder if they have any broader awareness of the global history of the use of state security services to create honeypot extremist opposition movements, entrap potential dissidents in them, frame them for violence, and discredit their political opponents by association - most notably, through Operation Trust executed by the KGB under Chairman Stalin.

The answer, apparently, is no.

[Kaczynskisatva]

One will further be lead to wonder, "Why is it that these people have a certain belief about this incident and the correct way of dealing with those involved, when this publicly accessible information is news to them?"

The simple answer, is that they do not form their opinion by executing a simple algorithm of seeing what all the significant viewpoints on the topic is, examining the evidence they cite (if any) and then applying the rational method to search for models to explain the evidence, drawing on a basic knowledge of history with the first expectation of seeing a recurring pattern of something, and not expecting to find something truly new under heaven.

Why inquire, when the answer is of no use to them?

They have an identity, a tribe with a chant, and they will chant it, with no conception of principles or precedents, because they are elated. Elated, that the inner viciousness they have been waiting to unleash has finally found a sactioned target. Just this once, they can forget their contempt for boots and boot-licking - so sweet, now, are the soles of the state security apparatus, now that it is crushing people they personally dislike, today, and tomorrow be damned. Such is the spirit of man - let us wonder, at last, what nations he will raise up with that hideous strength.

[Ifreann]

Sure, let's charge some people. Here's a few idea of where to start:

Name: Enrique Tarrio
Rank: Leader of the Proud Boys
Profession: Former criminal, professional FBI Informant since 2012

Tarrio isn't really the leader of the Proud Boys. The actual leadership is the Elder Chapter, who do their best to stay out of the public eye because, you know, all the crimes. Tarrio is the public face, and has very probably only retained that position because of how he's a snitch. People are probably afraid to kick him out for fear of all the revenge snitching he'd do.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt, you were telling us about the little known fact that the feds do entrapment and shit.

[Kaczynskisatva]

Tarrio isn't really the leader of the Proud Boys. The actual leadership is the Elder Chapter, who do their best to stay out of the public eye because, you know, all the crimes. Tarrio is the public face, and has very probably only retained that position because of how he's a snitch. People are probably afraid to kick him out for fear of all the revenge snitching he'd do.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt, you were telling us about the little known fact that the feds do entrapment and shit.

Regrettably, I took a moment out of my life to check the article I referenced.

Tarrio became national chairman of the Proud Boys in 2018. He was also arrested, in the Capitol, two days before the event, on a misdemeanor charge. I cannot find any information about whether or not that charge was pressed - I assume it was dropped. This would seem like a fairly standard method to remove him from either visibly participating in the event to the public, or visibly not participating in it to his organization.

This raises two obvious questions, at least:

- What sort of organization is the Proud Boys, that it has not (to my knowledge) gotten rid of its "national chairman" after he is outed to be a fed?

Tolerating feds inside an anti-government group is about as logical as tolerating feds inside a drug trafficking operation, which is another sort of anti-government group. The only reason to do this, is if you want your thing to fail. A common reason for wanting your thing to fail, is if you yourself are a fed. In this case, it appears that the organization, like the Oathkeepers, is being run by feds. Since the end result of the Capitol Hill riot was the rushed confirmation of Joe Biden, mass arrests of right wing opposition to the new administration, and the introduction of a new "national terror threat" narrative about his opposition, it was clearly a failure for that opposition, and a victory for the administration.

- What sort of organization is the FBI, that it was clearly aware of the threat posed by these groups, since it had them heavily infiltrated and was, in fact, running them, but was unable to prevent these groups from being allowed to walk into the Capitol building, through open doors sectioned off by velvet ropes, by the remaining Capitol police force, which was instructed to do this?

The answers that I expect NSG to give to these questions will probably sound something like, "Give us Barbarus!" It would really be a heartbreaker for them if they discovered that their beloved Antifa freedom fighter chapters are even more heavily fedded-out than these right wing antifas, since there are so many active drug users in those populations that can be flipped on a dime. Fortunately for their hearts, they will probably not take any effective actions to try to find this out.

[Ifreann]

Regrettably, I took a moment out of my life to check the article I referenced.

Tarrio became national chairman of the Proud Boys in 2018. He was also arrested, in the Capitol, two days before the event, on a misdemeanor charge. I cannot find any information about whether or not that charge was pressed - I assume it was dropped. This would seem like a fairly standard method to remove him from either visibly participating in the event to the public, or visibly not participating in it to his organization.

This raises two obvious questions, at least:

- What sort of organization is the Proud Boys, that it has not (to my knowledge) gotten rid of its "national chairman" after he is outed to be a fed? Tolerating feds inside an anti-government group is about as logical as tolerating feds inside a drug trafficking operation. The only reason to do this, is if you want your thing to fail, or if your thing is actually being run by feds. In this case, it appears that the organization, like the Oathkeepers, is being run by feds.

My understanding is that through some quirk of their bylaws, Tarrio was able to force an in-person vote on his removal, which he won. This came after an online poll on a Proud Boy Telegram channel, or some similar private venue, showing near unanimous support for excommunicating him from the organisation. Thus my belief that people feared to kick him out of the Proud Boys lest he revenge snitch on them. The well known snitch standing there, clearly knowing who you are and probably what crimes you've done, is a strong incentive to vote the way he wants you to vote.

- What sort of organization is the FBI, that it was clearly aware of the threat posed by these groups, since it had them heavily infiltrated and was, in fact, running them, but was unable to prevent these groups from being allowed to walk into the Capitol building, through open doors sectioned off by velvet ropes, by the remaining Capitol police force, which was instructed to do this?

An organisation that ultimately answers to the President.

The answers that I expect NSG to give to these questions will probably sound something like, "Give us Barbarus!" It would really be a heartbreaker for them if they discovered that their beloved Antifa freedom fighter chapters are even more heavily fedded-out than these right wing antifas, since there are so many active drug users in those populations that can be flipped on a dime. Fortunately for their hearts, they will probably not take any effective actions to try to find this out.

I thought that it was pretty well known that the Communist Party of the USA continues to exist purely because federal agents can expense their dues.

[Hemakral]

https://imgur.com/a/XvHYZDU

What's more worrisome than a lack of executions is the total failure of the Republican Party to repudiate or reform these factions within their own party.

My guess is that they don't care, don't want to risk their positions by saying something or already tried and were booted out.

[Kaczynskisatva]

- What sort of organization is the FBI, that it was clearly aware of the threat posed by these groups, since it had them heavily infiltrated and was, in fact, running them, but was unable to prevent these groups from being allowed to walk into the Capitol building, through open doors sectioned off by velvet ropes, by the remaining Capitol police force, which was instructed to do this?

An organisation that ultimately answers to the President.

Fortunately for me, I am not going to take a moment out of my life to go over the history of the Mueller investigation and the career of James Comey to respond to this conspiracy theory.

Instead, I will just do this:

Me: What sort of organization is the Praetorian Guard?
You: An organization which ultimately answers to the Emperor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... rian_Guard

This is not the most high quality input, but it is the input which your comment deserves. Factionalism and disloyalty are older than Charlemagne, and a blanket assertion that these do not exist in a particular case needs to be supported with some evidence.

[Vassenor]

An organisation that ultimately answers to the President.

Fortunately for me, I am not going to take a moment out of my life to go over the history of the Mueller investigation and the career of James Comey to respond to this conspiracy theory.

Instead, I will just do this:

Me: What sort of organization is the Praetorian Guard?
You: An organization which ultimately answers to the Emperor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... rian_Guard

This is not the most high quality input, but it is the input which your comment deserves. Factionalism and disloyalty are older than Charlemagne, and a blanket assertion that these do not exist in a particular case needs to be supported with some evidence.

So the FBI is biased against Trump somehow and wants to kill him?

[Haganham]

What's more worrisome than a lack of executions is the total failure of the Republican Party to repudiate or reform these factions within their own party.

I mean that seems pretty par for the course, the real issue is a Democratic AG who seems veeeery reluctant to prosecute the ringleaders

In fairness he works for the ringleaders.

[Ifreann]

This is not the most high quality input, but it is the input which your comment deserves.

Is this gonna be your whole thing here? Acting smarter than everyone else? You cited the Gateway Pundit as if it were a credible source. You made the same post in the same thread twice, clearly having forgotten that you'd responded to it already and not recognising that the forum marks threads you've posted in. Maybe just post like a normal person.

[Mayhem Era France]

Best case scenario. They serve a few years and then President Donald Trump pardons them in his second, non-consecutive term. They'll enjoy a few months before the Earth becomes entirely uninhabitable.

[Mayhem Era France]

I mean that seems pretty par for the course, the real issue is a Democratic AG who seems veeeery reluctant to prosecute the ringleaders

In fairness he works for the ringleaders.

Merrick Garland doesn't work for Trump and company. Where did you get such silly notions, man?